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Aquarius owners: a question


x=usr(1536)

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Preface: the point of asking this question is not to be antagonistic; it's something that I've wondered about since the age of around nine or so. With that in mind:

 

Did anyone actually like their Aquarius?

 

I had one; it even included the Mini Expander and 16K RAM cartridge. And I hated it. Nobody else had one, magazines never carried any interesting program listings for it, and the game selection was scant. Its capabilities were... Limited. Years later, when I heard how it had been described as the 'system for the Seventies' inside of Mattel, I totally understood what it must have been like to know that this was what had been selected to ship.

 

About the kindest things I could find to say about it was that the green power light was sort of a neat colour, and putting an appropriately-tuned AM radio next to it and forcing BASIC to do some heavy FOR/NEXT loops could cause some interesting-sounding interference on the radio.

 

So was I just an ungrateful kid (bear in mind that the sole purpose of my parents obtaining this computer for me by sitting through a timeshare presentation was to keep me away from the Apple ][+ that they had, a stratagem that backfired significantly on them), or was my loathing at the time completely justified?

Edited by x=usr(1536)
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I never got one. I often looked at them and to this day I am a bit interested. But the software I've seen for it looks terrible. I have fond memories of Apple II, C64, even TRS-80 hardware and software. But the Aquarius never got there with me. I want to want one, if you know what I mean. I am a HUGE Intellivision fan. But I was just never able to push myself over the hump to take up space in my house with an Aquarius. I, too, would love for some folks to tell us what I am missing so that my interest would be kindled into getting one.

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It's undeniably terrible, period. It has few redeeming qualities other than looking especially nice. With that said, like any retro tech, it can still be fascinating to work with and even occasionally game on. I don't think it's outrageous to say that a lot of the vintage stuff we still use we do so not because it's especially amazing, but because it's interesting and scratches a particular nostalgic itch.

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It's undeniably terrible, period. It has few redeeming qualities other than looking especially nice. With that said, like any retro tech, it can still be fascinating to work with and even occasionally game on. I don't think it's outrageous to say that a lot of the vintage stuff we still use we do so not because it's especially amazing, but because it's interesting and scratches a particular nostalgic itch.

 

Those are certainly valid points.

 

I will give the Aquarius credit for one thing: it did manage to ingrain itself into my memory. Granted, the impression wasn't even remotely favourable, but at least it did manage to make one.

 

That said, it was the stepping stone to an Atari 800, which did manage to successfully keep me off of the parents' Apple. So it's got that going for it ;)

Edited by x=usr(1536)
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Stepping stone is a great way to describe the Aquarius. A friend gave me his entire setup BITD (early-mid 80's) and I probably used it for at least a few weeks before making room on my computer desk for something else. This was before I had my own Intellivision, so being able to play stuff like Snafu, Tron Deadly Discs, D&D and Utopia in my bedroom was pretty cool. For a very short while anyway. :lol:

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I had a little time today to hook up and test the Aquarius I recently purchased. I'm happy to say that it's nowhere near as bad as I anticipated. I only played Night Stalker and Astrosmash but they were both playable. While the Intellivision versions of both games are better, the Aquarius versions are fine. Having a controller is a must though. Luckily I have a pair that I purchased a long time ago that I was able to find. Playing with only the keyboard would be a pain!

 

I still have Utopia, Snafu, Burgertime and Tron Deadly Discs to play. What do you think is the best game on the Aquarius? Are any of its games better than the Intellivision version?

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I would have been happy to have the free computer in the 1980s. I had fun programming the Commodore Pet in high school and the Aquarius looks like a similar machine. It really was a system for the 70s. I've never seen one, maybe it has a lousy keyboard, but it does have an 8k microsoft Basic with peeks and pokes. Like the PET it has no graphics capability but does have an extended graphical character set. It is not a video games machine, so it was a poor choice by Mattel. It might have made a decent videotex terminal had videotex caught on in the US. At the time the biggest reason to get a modem was to pirate games.

 

I heard of Aquarius later showing up as timeshare sales giveaways. Do you remember what year you got yours?

 

Edit:

Treasure of Tarmin on the Aquarius might be okay. The Chess program might be faster than Intellivision, not sure. Note there are two independent chess programs for Aquarius.

Edited by mr_me
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I would have been happy to have the free computer in the 1980s. I had fun programming the Commodore Pet in high school and the Aquarius looks like a similar machine. It really was a system for the 70s. I've never seen one, maybe it has a lousy keyboard, but it does have an 8k microsoft Basic with peeks and pokes. Like the PET it has no graphics capability but does have an extended graphical character set. It is not a video games machine, so it was a poor choice by Mattel. It might have made a decent videotex terminal had videotex caught on in the US. At the time the biggest reason to get a modem was to pirate games.

That's the thing... I also had an Odyssey2 at the time. It was mainly used for games, but at least it had the assembly language cartridge as a pack-in. Granted, I had no clue what I was doing with it as assembly was beyond me at the time, but I actually liked that machine (and still do). The Aquarius seemed like a backwards step even in comparison to the O2.

 

I heard of Aquarius later showing up as timeshare sales giveaways. Do you remember what year you got yours?

Late 1983 or early 1984, more likely early 1984. I could ask my folks if they remember anything about it, but it's doubtful they would (other than that it failed to keep me away from the Apple; that one has come up in conversation in the past).

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I played Tron Deadly Discs and Utopia last night. Neither is as good as the Intellivision version. At least Utopia was somewhat playable. I do like the little overlays that were created for the controllers. I didn't know they existed until I opened the Utopia box. I still have Burgertime and Snafu to test. Maybe tonight.

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The biggest weakness of the Aquarius was it had no programmable graphics. Zero. It showed in most all of the ports of the Intellivision titles. Since the Aquarius used a Zilog Z80, if Radofin had simply included a graphics chip, there probably would have been some half decent ports as the Zilog Z80 was a pretty popular processor at the time.

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The biggest weakness of the Aquarius was it had no programmable graphics. Zero. It showed in most all of the ports of the Intellivision titles. Since the Aquarius used a Zilog Z80, if Radofin had simply included a graphics chip, there probably would have been some half decent ports as the Zilog Z80 was a pretty popular processor at the time.

This is a good point, and I always felt that the Aquarius may have had more of a chance if it had been a clone of the ZX Spectrum - or at least compatible.

 

Then again, given that Timex/Sinclair probably still held the US rights to Sinclair's hardware, that was not very likely to happen.

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This is a good point, and I always felt that the Aquarius may have had more of a chance if it had been a clone of the ZX Spectrum - or at least compatible.

 

Then again, given that Timex/Sinclair probably still held the US rights to Sinclair's hardware, that was not very likely to happen.

 

A ZX Spectrum clone would have never flown in the US, even if it had made it out in 1982. It was just lacking in too many technical areas and we weren't nearly as price conscious as European or South American markets. Even Timex tried to make US-centric improvements to their pseudo-clone, costing them native compatibility, and it still wasn't enough to get noticed in a very crowded market.

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A ZX Spectrum clone would have never flown in the US, even if it had made it out in 1982. It was just lacking in too many technical areas and we weren't nearly as price conscious as European or South American markets. Even Timex tried to make US-centric improvements to their pseudo-clone, costing them native compatibility, and it still wasn't enough to get noticed in a very crowded market.

All of which makes sense. Let me phrase the hypothesis differently: where releasing the Aquarius as a US clone of the ZX Spectrum may have made sense would have been software availability. By the time the Aquarius hit the market, the ZX Spectrum had already been on the market for a year and had good momentum behind the titles available for it. Those could have been used to seed the launch, with Mattel's own titles being included on top of them (and licensed for European distribution on the Spectrum).

 

Ultimately, though, I have to agree with you that the budget end of the market in the US was radically different to the same market in other parts of the world. Having a wider software library available might have bought the Aquarius a full year in the marketplace, maybe even two. But it's doubtful that it ever would have had any sort of meaningful impact regardless.

Edited by x=usr(1536)
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Sinclair already had a US partner in Timex so they wouldn't have been an option for Mattel. According to Wikipedia, Timex did release a zx spectrum clone in the US called the Timex Sinclair 2068; is that what Bill was talking about. I never heard of this computer; maybe it didn't make it to Canada. The original Timex Sinclair was very famous at the time being the cheapest computer at US$99.

Edited by mr_me
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Mattel didn't have to aim for the ZX Spectrum. They had at least three options to produce a decent home computer of the day:

  • Partner with Spectravideo - a part US, part Hong Kong company that made the SVI-318/328 which later became the basis for the MSX standard.
  • Look to Japan and partner with Sord, who were planning to introduce their home computer M5 in the US as well, using the same TI VDP/PSG chipset as in the Colecovision.
  • Wait a little and introduce a MSX computer of their own, that could've competed with at least Coleco's ADAM.

I'm a little surprised that Radofin didn't have any better graphics to offer in the Aquarius, since e.g. the TI VDP already seemed to be available to 3rd party manufacturers, see e.g. the Hong Kong based VTech Creativision that was contemporary or possible even predated all of the ColecoVision, Sord M5 and Spectravideo by a little amount of time.

 

With several attempts to make the Intellivision into a computer already, Mattel should've had their bar set a little higher than with the Aquarius.

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Sinclair already had a US partner in Timex so they wouldn't have been an option for Mattel. According to Wikipedia, Timex did release a zx spectrum clone in the US called the Timex Sinclair 2068; is that what Bill was talking about. I never heard of this computer; maybe it didn't make it to Canada. The original Timex Sinclair was very famous at the time being the cheapest computer at US$99.

I have to admit that I had completely forgotten about the TS2068; for some reason, I keep thinking that Timex dropped the Sinclair line after the TS1000 flopped. That pretty much negates my earlier thought completely.

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Mattel didn't have to aim for the ZX Spectrum. They had at least three options to produce a decent home computer of the day:

  • Partner with Spectravideo - a part US, part Hong Kong company that made the SVI-318/328 which later became the basis for the MSX standard.

True, but those were already being sold independently in the US. I can remember seeing them in Federated Group stores in about the 1983 timeframe.

 

  • Look to Japan and partner with Sord, who were planning to introduce their home computer M5 in the US as well, using the same TI VDP/PSG chipset as in the Colecovision.
  • Wait a little and introduce a MSX computer of their own, that could've competed with at least Coleco's ADAM.

 

Yeah, the MSX route probably would have been the better bet. Then again, it would have moved the Aquarius (or Intellivision) close enough to the ColecoVision's capabilities that the average consumer might not have been able to really distinguish between the two - and software incompatibility between both systems would probably have only furthered the confusion.

 

I'm a little surprised that Radofin didn't have any better graphics to offer in the Aquarius, since e.g. the TI VDP already seemed to be available to 3rd party manufacturers, see e.g. the Hong Kong based VTech Creativision that was contemporary or possible even predated all of the ColecoVision, Sord M5 and Spectravideo by a little amount of time.

 

With several attempts to make the Intellivision into a computer already, Mattel should've had their bar set a little higher than with the Aquarius.

Agreed. If they'd taken a similar approach to the Adam and treated the Aquarius as more of an expansion module for the Intellivision (or even made it a standalone computer with Intellivision backwards-compatibility), it might have stood more of a chance.

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Radofin supposedly had three computers in their lineup. The Aquarius II and III were supposed to have programmable bitmap graphics. The Aquarius II that went into production didn't have programmable graphics and was not much different than the Aquarius I. Mattel, being price sensitive, started with the Aquarius I. It didn't matter as Mattel Electronics was out of the hardware business by summer 1983 and out of business by Jan 1984.

 

Agreed. If they'd taken a similar approach to the Adam and treated the Aquarius as more of an expansion module for the Intellivision (or even made it a standalone computer with Intellivision backwards-compatibility), it might have stood more of a chance.

By this point the Intellivision was really finished. Intellivision III was suppose to be out but like Aquarius was just a quick fix. Intellivision IV was the future of Mattel Electronics. Edited by mr_me
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Wasn't the Keyboard Component intended to be that expansion module, with its own 6502 CPU and everything?

 

I don't know if software incompatibility between two different manufacturers using similar hardware was a problem. In that case, Coleco had pretty much "closed" the US market for Z80 based systems with the TMS-9918. Rather clever people after a while would've realized that the Aquarius could be modified or configured to run dumps of ColecoVision cartridges but probably Mattel could not have been blamed for that? Of course a system based on the Z80, TMS-9918 and SN76489 would've had zero backwards compatibility with the Intellivision, but then again I don't think the actual Aquarius has either?

 

Given that Mattel for a short while sold Nintendo's NES, I don't find it entirely unlikely if they had partnered with e.g. Spectravideo even if they already had released their early computers independently. They probably needed cash and the market credit I believe a name like Mattel could vouch for, even if I understand that the video game section was quite separate from the rest of Mattel and they didn't even have access to the mother company's toy IP to spin video games around them.

 

Of course if Mattel were on a strict budget when approaching Radofin for a computer design, perhaps the TI chipset elsewhere used by e.g. VTech, Sord, Spectravideo and Coleco still was not affordable enough for them to present a computer?

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Wasn't the Keyboard Component intended to be that expansion module, with its own 6502 CPU and everything?

Essentially, yes.

 

I don't know if software incompatibility between two different manufacturers using similar hardware was a problem. In that case, Coleco had pretty much "closed" the US market for Z80 based systems with the TMS-9918.

Let me clarify what I meant by that: at the time, game systems and computers were heavily differentiated by look and feel. An MSX-based Aquarius / Intellivision computer would have had graphical capabilities very close to the ColecoVision. This is where I feel the confusion would have crept in; it wouldn't have been able to claim ColecoVision compatibility (in the way that, say, a Sears Video Arcade could with a VCS), but, graphically, it would still look a lot like a ColecoVision despite the fact that ColecoVision titles couldn't run on it natively. Consumers probably wouldn't have known what to make of it, and it may even have made selling the system difficult.

 

Rather clever people after a while would've realized that the Aquarius could be modified or configured to run dumps of ColecoVision cartridges but probably Mattel could not have been blamed for that? Of course a system based on the Z80, TMS-9918 and SN76489 would've had zero backwards compatibility with the Intellivision, but then again I don't think the actual Aquarius has either?

True, and I agree with you on that. It could even have been accomplished (possibly) with a third-party adapter, which would have made for an interesting machine - and if it was Intellivision-based, it could have potentially run titles from all three of the major consoles on the market at the time. You'd just have to use the appropriate expansion modules.

 

Given that Mattel for a short while sold Nintendo's NES, I don't find it entirely unlikely if they had partnered with e.g. Spectravideo even if they already had released their early computers independently. They probably needed cash and the market credit I believe a name like Mattel could vouch for, even if I understand that the video game section was quite separate from the rest of Mattel and they didn't even have access to the mother company's toy IP to spin video games around them.

From what I recall, the NES was only sold by Mattel in certain PAL regions. I'm not certain how that would have impacted sales of their other machines in those regions, but I can honestly say that I don't recall ever seeing a single Intellivision anywhere in Europe at the time. That's not to say that they weren't out there, but they didn't seem to take off outside of the US the same way that they did inside of it. Given this, it may have been a non-issue for Mattel to sell the NES in those regions. And if I'm not mistaken, I believe that Mattel had completely exited the video game / computer market by the time that they were selling the NES; if that memory is correct, it really would have been a non-issue for them.

 

Of course if Mattel were on a strict budget when approaching Radofin for a computer design, perhaps the TI chipset elsewhere used by e.g. VTech, Sord, Spectravideo and Coleco still was not affordable enough for them to present a computer?

This, I think, is the heart of the matter - they just didn't have the money for anything else, and wanted to get something - anything - onto the market ASAP.

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  • 3 months later...

Partial necroposting and probably old knowledge to some of you, but I just read about the Dragon MSX, a prototype machine from Dragon Data (who made the Dragon 32, a home computer very similar to the TRS-80 CoCo). This MSX computer was designed by ... drum roll ... Radofin in some time before Dragon Data under the control of General Electric Company (GEC) went into receivership in 1984 and was sold to Spanish startup Eurohard.

 

Would this Dragon MSX design possibly match either Aquarius II or III, or just one more of many Radofin designs?

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I wasn't around yet during the heyday of 8-bit home computers, but as a collector, I think it's neat for what it is. Yeah, the graphics are ugly and the handful of cartridge games that came out for it are essentially worse versions of the Intellivision's Greatest Hits, but they're still fun and play well. The keyboard really isn't too bad for some of them, either. And, a lot of the games that came out on cassette aren't too bad, either, although more in sense of something like a Commodore PET than a Commodore 64.

 

If nothing else, it's definitely a few steps up from the Timex 1000.

 

I imagine that if I were a kid in 1983-84, I would have been excited and happy to have an Aquarius as my very own computer*. Not only does it have some fun (if weird-looking) games, I could program in BASIC, load/save other software with cassette tapes, print secret messages and stuff out on that little fun-size thermal printer that every low-end computer seemed to have at the time (never saw the practical use for a printer that small outside of a cash register setting, but I digress), and do other computery things. I'm certain I would have had no illusions about its actual power or utility or comparability to a C64 or Apple, but that would have been beside the point anyway. It would have been my own little world to inhabit, and my imagination would have run wild with it. Conceivably, I would have had a lot of fun with an Aquarius.

 

*I base that on the fact that when I was 10 or 11, my parents got me an old, outdated 286 PC clone from a neighborhood garage sale, and I loved it, even though we had a new-ish 486 with games like TIE Fighter and Doom, and Sega Genesis and Nintendo; in fact, one of my biggest regrets in gaming/computing is letting my folks talk me into getting rid of it a few years later when I wasn't using it as much.

 

Now, if the Aquarius was the only computer in the house, it might have been a different story. :lol: Even a child's imagination needs a rest now and then. :-D And in my case with my cherished 286, even though I loved the amber glow of the BASICA ASCII-graphic renditions of classic arcade, strategy, and puzzle games I had, and the copy of WordPerfect I used to write scripts for the comic books I was creating...I had our Packard Bell and a current-gen console or two to fall back on. :)

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