Gray Defender Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Here is my review of Jr. Pac-Man for Intellivision. I am curious to know what you think good or bad. Either way I hope everyone has a great Thanksgiving holiday! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-crew Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Cheers Gray !! Nice review -looking forward to when my copy finally arrives. ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Nice review and thanks for sharing! A shame about the bugs... but I wonder if they're just relegated to the TandyVision for whatever reason(s). Seems to happen too often on your setup to have been missed during testing, so maybe you do have a wonky console? You try it on another console by chance or is that your only Intellivision? No longer an early adopter of Intellivision home-brews myself and rely on feedback and reviews like this before purchasing, else I'd be able to verify for 'ya. I did have a regular 2609 console that didn't like the title screen of DK Arcade and the option screen of Ms. Pac-Man, but displayed fine on others. So wonky consoles aren't out of the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Defender Posted November 22, 2017 Author Share Posted November 22, 2017 No, I agree, which is why I recorded the disclaimer. I have to believe most of these issues do not happen on the majority of INTV consoles. I was hoping to hear back from you guys to let me know everything is fine with yours. I may have to switch to another Intellivison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 BTW: The different modes selectable (Arcade, Atari, Mattel), only affect the title screen? The way the game boots up? Nothing else changed about the gameplay? Oh and when you came to the Atari mode, you mentioned the Atari 7800 version. That splash screen you see is how Atarisoft games start out on the Intellivision. Here's the 7800's title screen. Jr. Pac-Man is a home-brew by PacManPlus here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Defender Posted November 23, 2017 Author Share Posted November 23, 2017 Ahh, okay thanks for the correction, I appreciate it. As far as I could tell switching the title screens did not affect gameplay but I will double check. I plan on updating the video in the next couple of days (replacing it) and making a few fixes like this to it, including testing out another INTV and for the bugs I ran into Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Defender Posted November 23, 2017 Author Share Posted November 23, 2017 Issue: Pink box on maze I tested three other intellivisions (two player mode, fast jr) and came up with the following results: Sylvania model - Pink box shows up right away Sears video arcade - Pink box shows up right away Mattel model - no pink box, however, I was able to reproduce the premature level completion bug. Also one thing I didnt realize, the bug which allows Junior to go through a ghost can also happen when blue time is active (sylvania model). I have a few Mattel Intys but they have video artifacts unrelated to Jr. Pacman. Does anyone know anyone that might be able to repair? Anyhow, I feel like a game tester lol... Glenn 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Anyhow, I feel like a game tester lol... Glenn Too bad you weren't one! haha Okay, this is just silly now. Some of the bugs show right away and you're able to reproduce the premature maze completion thing consistently. Semi-defective cartridge maybe? Gotta be it, right? A glitch when transferring the game to the cartridge or something... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Defender Posted November 23, 2017 Author Share Posted November 23, 2017 Too bad you weren't one! haha Okay, this is just silly now. Some of the bugs show right away and you're able to reproduce the premature maze completion thing consistently. Semi-defective cartridge maybe? Gotta be it, right? A glitch when transferring the game to the cartridge or something... Yeah, let's hope that's the case... If only I could purchase the ROM then I could try it out on my LTO flash cart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 If bugs only show up in two player games, most people may never notice. Sylvania, Sears, and Tandyvision Intellivisions were made in the same Factory as Mattel. Sylvanias were made in USA in 1980 and Tandyvisions in Hong Kong in 1982; there should no difference with Mattel 2609s except for the Sears exec chip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Here is my review of Jr. Pac-Man for Intellivision. I am curious to know what you think good or bad. Either way I hope everyone has a great Thanksgiving holiday! Also one thing I didnt realize, the bug which allows Junior to go through a ghost can also happen when blue time is active (sylvania model). This is not a bug, it's a quirk of the collision detection mechanism and is present in most versions and variations of Pac-Man, especially those adhering closely to their source's implementation, including the very original arcade game. The problem is that the smaller resolution used in Jr. Pac-Man for the Intellivision makes it occur more often. For an explanation on why it happens, check out the section "Maze Logic 101" on The Pac-Man Dossier by Jamey Pittman. In the arcade, with 16x16 pixel sprites, the collision miss rarely happen. In Christmas Carol, Ms. Pac-Man, and Jr. Pac-Man for the Intellivision with 8x8 pixel sprites, it is bound to happen a bit more often. -dZ. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 (edited) Yeap... I was one of the testers on this game and mentioned the passing through of the ghosts on several occasions. It used to happen much more often, but essentially it is partially on purpose since the original game allows these same conditions to occur as well. I will have to watch the video for other bugs mentioned. Mainly because all of my testing was done on three different models, my Sears unit, Intellivision II, and... my Tandyvision. Most of the bugs I reported during testing were issues with the volume mix levels, and the most frequent was changes required to the mazes as there were many times where you could get the 'eyes' to get stuck going in a constant loop trying to get back to the ghost home. I never played on two player since it was only myself around here who wanted to ever play. After watching the review, I think I will connect up a standard 2609 Mattel, my Sears, and Tandyvision one units to see about this pink box thing. Also I had forgotten to mention that passing through ghosts is more often when playing fast Jr. mode as opposed to normal speed but again, that isn't really a bug and was essentially by design we were advised. I'm curious to take the last build of the game I still have on my LTO and try to replicate these bugs. Edited November 23, 2017 by -^Cro§Bow^- 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Defender Posted November 23, 2017 Author Share Posted November 23, 2017 Yeah I agree it happens on the arcade RARELY, in certain situations and people like Billy Mitchell could exploit it. Me, on the otherhand, I lost many quarters playing pac-man and if it happened, it was rare. In Junior Pac-Man it happens frequently. So I stand by my statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 That's interesting, thanks for the link. But it suggests that Intellivision Pac-mans use tile based collision detection as opposed to Intellivision hardware object pixel collision detection. Is that how the Intellivision pacman games were done. Intellivision pacman tiles are larger than the sprites, where in the arcade they are much smaller than the sprites. So yes larger pixels should mean higher chance of missed tile collisions but wouldn't larger tiles have the opposite effect. I always thought missed intellivision collision detection had to do with object speed and if the objects are jumping pixels in order to get higher speed. And smaller sprites with fewer pixels makes it worse. So superfast mode should have a higher chance of missing collisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intymike Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 If bugs only show up in two player games, most people may never notice. Sylvania, Sears, and Tandyvision Intellivisions were made in the same Factory as Mattel. Sylvanias were made in USA in 1980 and Tandyvisions in Hong Kong in 1982; there should no difference with Mattel 2609s except for the Sears exec chip. I had the pink boxes a few times in one player mode. I tested it on different consoles. I'm glad I'm not the only one who had this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DZ-Jay Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 That's interesting, thanks for the link. But it suggests that Intellivision Pac-mans use tile based collision detection as opposed to Intellivision hardware object pixel collision detection. Is that how the Intellivision pacman games were done. Intellivision pacman tiles are larger than the sprites, where in the arcade they are much smaller than the sprites. So yes larger pixels should mean higher chance of missed tile collisions but wouldn't larger tiles have the opposite effect. I always thought missed intellivision collision detection had to do with object speed and if the objects are jumping pixels in order to get higher speed. And smaller sprites with fewer pixels makes it worse. So superfast mode should have a higher chance of missing collisions. Yes, Pac-Man uses tile-based collision detection. Ms. Pac-Man and Christmas Carol do this too (and I suspect Jr. Pac-Man as well). The problem is that sprites are 16x16 and tiles are 8x8 in the arcade, while on the Intellivision the sprites are 8x8 and the tiles are 4x4. The smaller size of the tiles means that the tile-swap glitch is much more likely to happen. This can be tuned a bit by adjusting the speed of the sprites in such a way that their displacement rarely coincides in them switching tiles at the same time. However, you cannot eliminate it completely. In Junior Pac-Man it happens frequently. So I stand by my statement. Does it happen more frequently than in Ms. Pac-Man and Christmas Carol? I am assuming that the issue is the same as the Pac-Man "passing through" glitch and not an actual bug in the collision detection. The latter is indeed possible, of course. -dZ. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+grips03 Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Great review of the game! Hopefully a few of the bugs can be recreated and addressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imstarryeyed Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 I am glad I read and saw these reviews, I think I will wait a bit and see if the developer can reproduce that pink box and premature maze ending bugs. If there is going to be a new release I will definitely order one, I am really looking forward to playing this great looking game!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+grips03 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 Are there plans to look into some of the issues brought up in the review? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Defender Posted November 29, 2017 Author Share Posted November 29, 2017 Rev mentioned to me that he would try to replicate the pink box issue and that it never came up in beta testing. I didn't mention all of the issues to him for two reasons. One, he is slow in responding. And two, I really didn't want to come off as a "basher". However I did send him a link to my review in case he was interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+grips03 Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 I think its good to list them in this thread, so if others come across any of the issues, they know they are not the only ones. Additionally they may be able to find a way to recreate issue reliably. I didn't see anything in the video that was bashing. I never even thought about getting this game until I saw your review. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Defender Posted November 29, 2017 Author Share Posted November 29, 2017 I appreciate that. One of the things I thought was an issue for example is the fact that this version of Jr. Pac-man awards a free Junior more than once per game. Rev said he wanted it to appeal to a broader audience, but I think the trade off is arcade accuracy. Also, I am pretty sure someone with a little skill can play this game pretty much endlessly because of that. I guess most of the time the questions I had for him were in regards to issues with the game, and I want to maintain a good relationship with him, where he will respond to me and hopefully not begrudgingly for future inquiries. He was very helpful to me when I worked on my Ultimate pong review. He sent me over several older builds some of which fixed issues that were later broken on the retail release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-crew Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Well, I just received JR Pac Man and played a few games , and all the bugs mentioned above have accrued with me as well in the first game I played .Also had these issues, game would not go to the next level even after I ate all the dots. Plus along the top portion of the screen there was some ghosting / flickering of jr pac man and streaks on top of maze. This was all in fast mode. I hope no one takes this as bashing. Only adding to feed back.. I really hope something of these issue could be addressed. Cheers 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfy62 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 When my games arrive, I will give a fair and thorough review! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-crew Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 When my games arrive, I will give a fair and thorough review! Wolfy62, just to let you know all games I played were on fast mode in Arcade Mode and Atari Mode on a Intellivion II . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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