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ABBUC Software Competition 2018


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#126 emkay OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 5, 2018 3:26 AM

I wish that ABBUC would allow software that only runs on upgraded hardware. They are holding back the future of Atari! There are more and more of us that have it. At least:
 
1) make a separate category for U1M, Rapidus, Incognito, etc. only.
2) an absolute rule for ALL entries: NO ILLEGAL OPCODES!
 
That would show the Atari users and members of ABBUC that they are IN TOUCH with the Atari Users.
 
Make Atari Great Again!


You want to steer ABBUC 180 degree.... funny ;)
How should it be possible to get in touch with "Atari Users" that weren't Atari Users?

#127 slx OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 5, 2018 3:41 AM

It's interesting that there is a lot more discussion about the ASC here than on the ABBUC forum itself.

 

I neither have really good software to participate, the only thing I could whip up on short notice is an updated version of something I wrote but didn'publish in 1985 which might be good for a last or second to last place.

 

I try to think of something new every year but always fail to get programming in time for the July deadline. I resolve to try more next year, but even if I make it and have something in time, prize money would not be a motivation. Even if ABBUC could pay 5000 EUR for the best entry, the hourly rate would be a pittance given the work something really good requires.

My basic motivation would be to enter it as a contest with anything above last place being a reward in itself. 

 

I have been a member for a couple of years now but don't live close to Cologne, so I have not participated in the general assembly yet. 

 

The question to ask IMHO is why so many programmers of good software choose not to enter the contest but just publish their stuff. It might be worth considering to change the rules to something akin to the Oscar where everything that's published in any given year or period can be nominated and is then voted on.

 

I haven't had a look at this year's entries but everything new - even if deemed "less than stellar" is probably better than what I could hack together and therefore worth a cheer!

 

As for hardware, I'd happily vote to give up the jury system and just vote on entries or even give the grand prize to a single entry. Or adopt the Oscar system as well.



#128 Mathy OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 5, 2018 11:05 AM

Hello slx

 

You haven't been at the general assembly yet?  Hmm, than you're not the guy I thought you were...

 

Problem with nominations will be that not everything will be nominated.  People will say: "Why am I not nominated?" or "software X (not nominated) is better than the first place in the ASC"....  Plus, and this might be a real problem, nomination means somebody has to know the software and nominate it.  Who's gonna nominate software that isn't finished yet?  (Often software is entered into the ASC when it is not yet finished)  At the moment, you can change a piece of software 1 minute before the deadline and then send it to the ABBUC.  Using "the Oscar system" would mean that we also need time to nominate.  Which would mean that programmers have even less time to code their software.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy



#129 _The Doctor__ ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 5, 2018 12:16 PM

why is this so hard? so much bureaucracy?  whatever happened to the idea of as many can enter as would like, maybe not even entered by developer but simply found and placed in and judge what is? this always allowed for the most entries of all kinds, of all people from everywhere.... 'nomination' could be we recognized good work and asked if they would like to be in it..

 

we judge restaurants in many places that have not entered to win anything... if they win a  'Star' or get recognition from magazines, cities, or countries for such good cuisine all are the better for it....

 

abbuc would gain more members if all from everywhere are in it....  what if you have some great software developer who is not a member or affiliate or friend and they win? They get honor a free membership and or some money... they could refuse... or they could accept........ you gain friends and those who would like to see more and join also, maybe come along with them?

 

I know some of this is addressed some is not.... I hope something in all ideas becomes helpful



#130 CharlieChaplin OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 5, 2018 12:53 PM

One of the reasons (and still the main reason!) why the Abbuc software contest was made, is the fact that the Abbuc magazine contained more and more A8 software downloaded from the internet. With the software contest this should be changed at least once in a year and the magazine should contain exclusive software thats not available anywhere else. PC software (even when written for the A8) breaks that idea, since it hardly can be put on a 130k A8 diskette and therefore is of no use for the Abbuc magazine... (and yes, the abbuc magazine is the 5,25" diskette, not the paper add-on).

 

Regarding nominations or online voting, we had a thing called "The Abbuc Awards" for several years, where A8 programs were awarded a gold/silver/bronze award (a piece of paper and a digital logo for use on a webpage). There were several categories, like best game, best tool, best music, best gfx, best programmer, etc. (no matter if the program was a conversion, port, update, etc.). But there were very few Abbuc members that nominated any programs and even fewer that voted in the end. Thats why I have high doubts that a nomination scheme would work for the Abbuc software contest (remember the reason for the contest: we want to have exclusive programs on the magazine; no longer the case if nominated programs are already available on the internet)...


Edited by CharlieChaplin, Sun Aug 5, 2018 12:55 PM.


#131 CharlieChaplin OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 5, 2018 2:20 PM

1. I´m in the same mood like 8BitJunkie and 1NG

2. IMHO the continuing disputes are the result in establishing the repeated rule changes since 2015

 

Maybe I´m wrong, but we hadn´t ANY of these discussions in all compos before 2015. I didn´t remember about any software declined for the compo. But since 2015, the rules are changed every year.

 

We didn´t got MORE or BETTER participants. Specially the hardware area is, regarding the huge amount of good new stuff published outside the ABBUC hardware compo something I called a joke.

 

So my 2 cents: No more jurors for the hardware compo. All software entries are handled using the rules of 2015. And, final: The members vote. DONE.

 

Well, I am an Abbuc member since 1994 and was there when the software contest began in 2004/2005. I can say for sure that we had these discussions long before 2015 and the rules were changed every year since the beginning in 2004/2005. Here is a discussion about Abbuc, Abbuc magazine, Abbuc software contest, etc, which took place in 2008 - no need to read the whole topic if you do not want to, but read post #38 by Mathy:  http://atariage.com/...mpo-2007/page-2


Edited by CharlieChaplin, Sun Aug 5, 2018 2:23 PM.


#132 snicklin OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Aug 5, 2018 3:11 PM

I was a town Councillor once and whenever you tried to introduce something new which benefited 90% of the town, there were 10% who were extremely vocal about how it didn't suit them. It was hard, but that is what needs to be done to improve things.

If ABBUC rules version 1 were reinstated, I am sure there would be many complaints. So having this process of refinement each year is good, even if some people don't like it. Changing the rules while the contest is going on will create resentment. What you have now is correct.

It is now the job of the members to work together to refine the rules as well as possible so that subjectivity can be taken out of the equation, if this is what people want.

I feel that ABBUC has been a great society for keeping people interested in Atari and this is why we are all still around. No institution is perfect, but democratic improvement is what makes things better.

My town in England is over 1000 years old and I like to think our rules are better and more relevant than those in 950.

To everyone that still makes Atari games, I love you. I appreciate your imagination, your persistence and your intellect.

#133 matosimi OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Aug 6, 2018 1:50 AM

Hi, I'm quite surprised what is going on here.

 

Rules are ok.

 

GetUp2 was not accepted - get over it.

 

It would not even crossed my mind to try to participate in the contest with Xirius Defect XXL (different music, different design, additional controls, 15x more levels) year after Xirius Defect participated. Same applies to Dynakillers Unchained, which was originally product of different developer team (similar to Amaurote 128)...however I reverse engineered the the code, added 4th player, changed colors, changed pictures, enhanced digitized sound engine and added multijoy support. (note: links in my signature).

 

It will sound hard, but someone needs to say it... whole mumbo jumbo about GetUp2 looks to me like failed attempt to cheat through the contest.

 

Would it be ok if original Laura and final Laura both participated let's say in 2010 and 2016? I think NO, because it is essentially the same game even though the final one is beautifully designed compared to the original which reminds me Robbo a lot....and when I saw it first time (sometime in 2010 i guess), i thought it is a Robbo hack with different charset and levels.

 

And other point, regarding the prizes. I believe they are ok and well balanced, prizes do not reflect efforts. Equality of opportunity is not equality of outcome. One can work on game for a year, other for a week... it does not mean that the result of year work will be better. Also there is no way to make the living of 8-bit Atari coding, so the prizes never cover the man-days spent ...even for a week-long project which would eventually hypothetically end up 1st.... but it definitely cheers you up when you 1st and you get the prize :)



#134 Level42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 7, 2018 8:41 AM

Hey for my part I only want to add that

 

1) I believe that the yearly software and hardware contest of ABBUC is great and a big encouragement to keep developing new hardware and software for our beloved machines.

2) I only wondered why something was done in someway, it got clearly explained and I understand that fully.

Let's keep this thing positive...some totally brilliant came from the contest....and some brilliant hardware too..IMHO the prizes are nice but not the main thing...it's just fun to have this kind of competiotn .......Keep it going :)



#135 slx OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 7, 2018 10:56 AM

You haven't been at the general assembly yet?  Hmm, than you're not the guy I thought you were...

 

I don't look like my profile picture at all ;) But now I'm curious who you think I was....

 

Thanks for all the insights. I am happy with new programs whether they're ABBUC exclusives or available on the net in between contests. Thanks to all who make them!



#136 ivop OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 7, 2018 12:00 PM

My 2 cents: the whole problem starts with words as 'wesentlich' and 'significant'. Those are subjective and hence always lead to discussion. The best solution I read above is to just delete this rule and let the voters decide. Perhaps the jury could add a note on the voters form, like, this game/app is similar to x, in case not every voter is familiar with the previous game/app.



#137 Fred_M OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Aug 7, 2018 12:38 PM

I think this discussion is getting out of hand. I have been to many ABBUC JHV-meetings and (like CharlieChaplin states) there is always a lot of discussion during the official part of the meeting about many topics a.o. this topic. All people present can give their opinion about everything involving the activities of the ABBUC. I often leave the JHV when the official part begins, because these discussions can last for hours ;)

 

I think the rules are clear and although "significant" is subjective, the whole voting part of a contest is (ofcourse) subjective. The entry was discussed with the two chairmembers of ABBUC and they made a decision. I think that was the right thing to do, consulting all ABBUC-members (about 400) is (I think) a bridge too far.

 

Ofcourse I hope the contest will continue for a number of years and I respect all people who sent in their entries. Keep up the good work :)


Edited by Fred_M, Tue Aug 7, 2018 12:39 PM.


#138 popmilo ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Aug 8, 2018 2:44 AM

The entry was discussed with the two chairmembers of ABBUC and they made a decision.

That sounds like enough people to make a good decision. One can be subjective, but two-three is more than enough to say if a game is "different enough".



#139 freetz OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:53 PM

Some have you have already cast their votes online, but just in case someone missed it: Online voting is already open at http://asc.abbuc.de- all you need is your membership number and your address (as spelt on the address sticker of the ABBUC magazine) from which the initial password is generated. In case you have already requested a new password from the system last year, you have to use this one instead of course. Enjoy!



#140 Philsan ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Oct 7, 2018 11:49 AM

I have problems voting online.

Last year I managed to do it but this year I can't.

 

I always get this message, not very useful:

"Username or password wrong or vote already cast!"

 

I don't think I voted already.

 

EDIT

I received an email with the new password but I always get the above message.



#141 freetz OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Oct 7, 2018 1:32 PM

Please send me your membership number as PM and I'll look into it. The error message shouldn't give hackers an indication what part of an attack was successful.

#142 freetz OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:32 PM

While quite a few members have already cast their votes with no problems, a few have contacted me that after casting the vote, an error message starting with "It did not work" comes up - sometimes even saying at the end that the vote has been counted. This should not happen and the vote in that case will NOT have been counted. As I cannot reproduce the error here (having deleted my own votes several times in the back-office and re-cast them without any problems), please get in touch with me in case you see this error, so we can get to the bottom of this. In any case, we'll make sure that anybody who has this problem and has contacted me before Saturday will have his/her vote counted one way or the other.



#143 Josť Pereira OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:41 PM

When is the meeting, next weekend or on the other (last of the month)?

#144 CharlieChaplin OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:43 PM

When is the meeting, next weekend or on the other (last of the month)?

 

...20th October...



#145 freetz OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:05 PM

Found the error which was an uncaught error handling of wrong membership / password combination. The strange message should no longer appear and I have also cleaned up the error messages in this process, so now you know if your credentials are wrong or whether your vote has already been cast. Again: Everyone who got this error had provided wrong credentials (maybe used the forum username instead of the membership number?) and needs to re-cast his/her votes before the general assembly.



#146 freetz OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:07 PM

To make it easier for you to see whether your vote has already been cast/accepted or not, here is a list of users who have voted until this moment:

20,68,122,157,204,300,324,389,403,583,660,670,803


#147 Mathy OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:37 PM

Hello guys

 

Saturday starts a bit earlier here than it does on the west side of the Atlantic.  We'll still be on daylight saving time and are usually 6 hours ahead of New York.  Just in case you want to cast your vote online or contact freetz.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy



#148 Stephen ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:10 PM

Sorry to hijack the thread.  I need to make a payment for new (and missed) ABBUC membership.  I haven't heard back from wolfram in a while.  Who can I contact to remedy this (as in take my money!)?  Thanks.



#149 rdea6 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:39 PM

Sorry to hijack the thread.  I need to make a payment for new (and missed) ABBUC membership.  I haven't heard back from wolfram in a while.  Who can I contact to remedy this (as in take my money!)?  Thanks.

I usually email wolfram my intent and then follow up with a paypal to his ABBUC email..



#150 Mathy OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:19 PM

Hello guys

 

And what I usually do is pay for more than one year.  That way, I only forget to pay every couple of years instead of each year.

 

BTW I transfer the money to the ABBUCs bank account.  From within Europe and in Euros that's free.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy


Edited by Mathy, Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:20 PM.





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