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What's up with Froggie?

Froggie 7800 Homebrew

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#51 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:42 PM

Sorry but I didn't feel like the music in Circus AA was worth the upcharge for Pokey. BBCQ was different and had a lot more variation in music.
Also I have played Frogger in various varieties. I also don't play Beef Drop for the music. So I appreciate the 7800 library being grown but its not a game I want to pay $70 for especially when its on so many platforms. I could buy a rare SNES game for that same price.
I feel the same way about the boxes. Remove the Pokey and box and I go from having one good homebrew to three for the same price.

Beef Drop should support Pokey Sound on the upcoming XM. If the TIA version of Froggie likewise has the Pokey sound built in, then getting a TIA version of it is a no brainer. The TIA audio is quite good in Beef Drop.

TIA homebrew (no box) = $30
Boxed TIA homebrew or unboxed Pokey homebrew = $50
Boxed Pokey homebrew = $70

Then the "ship your own loose Pokey or Ballblazer cart" teirs. Ballblazers will be as rare as Unicorn farts in a few years.

At what point does the cost of the game outweigh the benefits? Boxes are shelf fodder taking up more real estate than necessary. Pokey chips are limited supply so we may as well conserve them for releases that warrant their use.

#52 travistouchdown OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:12 AM

Still very excited for this one.  Will start my pokey hunt soon..for this and for Bentley Bear



#53 christo930 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:33 PM

The music has always been a problem with home versions of Frogger, though the Super Charger gets it mostly (though not 100%) right from what I recall.

I was playing a rom of Frogee that says NTSC and no beta markings, so I thought it was complete and it struggles with the sound on the third or fourth frog if I'm not mistaken. I don't know if it's the rom, a bug, my emulator or what. There also seems to be some missing sounds. I don't know if I am just not triggering them, or if they aren't in the game. There's one where the same note plays like 7 times in row, quickly. That seems to be missing along with 1 or 2 other jingles I can't name. It looks like the one I have was from a zip file dated 2015, so perhaps it's just an out of date version.

 

If you happen to have your C64 out, the new version of Frogger is outstanding. They used the border area and got it to look tall and of course, has SID sound.  I used to really like Frogger and none of the versions ever had the sound nailed down and some of the versions had no music.  The Colecovision version is a real stinker. The 5200 version is unplayable.



#54 The Usotsuki OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:56 AM

Even the MSX, which was probably an inhouse job?



#55 christo930 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:29 PM

I wanted to point out some missing tunes, or at least tunes I haven't heard in the game that are in the arcade version

 

The third frog that you land home's music is choppy and gets interrupted with dropped sounds. This does not appear to happen for any other sound.

 

I have not heard the car beeping sound, but that could be that I haven't got far enough today.

 

 

The following sounds I haven't heard in the Froggie version yet, plus one other one that I don't know what triggers it. There are 2 tunes which have a note that repleats about 4 times in a row, one of them I have heard in Froggie, the other I have not. At the time stamps in the video above, there are tunes I have not heard playing Froggie

2:20 2:55  3:04 3:50 4:28

 

I think I got far enough to have heard these sounds, but I haven't been able to do it today because I didn't get much sleep last night

 

Also, I am not sure that I have the latest rom. I will try to attach the one I have. If it's not the latest, can anyone point me to the latest. It would be nice to have a central space where all games that have a public release can have the latest public release linked.

 

The froggie_ntsc.a78 is from the froggie_final.zip

 

Also, the emulator I am using prosystem 1.3 does not an option for enabling Pokey, but I don't know if it just defaults to pokey or if I am hearing the TIA or Pokey sound.

 

This game, so far, is the most authentic Frogger for a contemporary game console. The Music, especially the way it's implemented was always a big part of the Frogger arcade experience and it's sadly been missing from most of the home console versions. Really looking forward to it.

 

Attached File  froggie_ntsc.a78   32.13KB   64 downloads

Attached File  froggie_final.zip   41.19KB   65 downloads



#56 Trebor OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:49 PM

 

...I am not sure that I have the latest rom. I will try to attach the one I have. If it's not the latest, can anyone point me to the latest. It would be nice to have a central space where all games that have a public release can have the latest public release linked.

 

The froggie_ntsc.a78 is from the froggie_final.zip

 

Also, the emulator I am using prosystem 1.3 does not an option for enabling Pokey, but I don't know if it just defaults to pokey or if I am hearing the TIA or Pokey sound.

 

This game, so far, is the most authentic Frogger for a contemporary game console. The Music, especially the way it's implemented was always a big part of the Frogger arcade experience and it's sadly been missing from most of the home console versions. Really looking forward to it.

 

attachicon.giffroggie_ntsc.a78

attachicon.giffroggie_final.zip

 

That is not the latest publicly distributed ROM.  It is dated May 10, 2013.  The latest public binary can be obtained from a post by Schmutzpuppe, that contains a date stamp of June 16, 2013. It fixes some bugs since that May release.  It is referenced in the Homebrew and Hacks pinned thread.

 

Derived from the June 16, 2013 binary, a proper header version ROM was created, is distributed under Trebors 7800 ROM PROPack, and runs perfectly under the A7800 emulator.



#57 save2600 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:00 PM

So the finished version is already 5 years old? :lol:
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#58 christo930 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:08 PM

 

That is not the latest publicly distributed ROM.  It is dated May 10, 2013.  The latest public binary can be obtained from a post by Schmutzpuppe, that contains a date stamp of June 16, 2013. It fixes some bugs since that May release.  It is referenced in the Homebrew and Hacks pinned thread.

 

Derived from the June 16, 2013 binary, a proper header version ROM was created, is distributed under Trebors 7800 ROM PROPack, and runs perfectly under the A7800 emulator.

That version doesn't seem to work. There is no music, more like a hammer hitting a bell, but not in tune. It sounds broken (it doesn't sound like poor sound, it sounds like it isn't working). The other version I have, though missing some sounds, does actually sound good. I'm using prosystem emulator 1.3, which appears to be the latest version.



#59 Trebor OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:49 PM

That version doesn't seem to work. There is no music, more like a hammer hitting a bell, but not in tune. It sounds broken (it doesn't sound like poor sound, it sounds like it isn't working). The other version I have, though missing some sounds, does actually sound good. I'm using prosystem emulator 1.3, which appears to be the latest version.

 

The issue is with the ProSystem emulator not the ROM version posted.  ;)   

 

The ROM binary file works perfectly under the real hardware utilizing the MCP DevCart and the ROM file with header works without issue under A7800 emulator.

 

What might fix/hack it to work with the ProSystem emulator is to store the hash in the ProSystem.dat file.  The emulator doesn't (always) read headers properly.  No guarantees though, as it is known to have issues with some POKEY supported games regardless.  The A7800 emulator is easy to setup, has better hardware timing, a wide-range of emulated controller support, a plethora of options to configure audio and video. All console and controller inputs can be completely remapped as well.



#60 sixersfan105 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:27 PM

Frogg-ie! Frogg-ie! Frogg-ie! *slow clap*

#61 iesposta OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 6, 2018 7:49 AM

Thanks Trebor for this updated Froggie video! WOW!

Comments are off in this video, but I needed to post and cross post how spectacular Froggie is now!

Is that really TIA at 3:30+?? Spectacular!

 

Both Pokey and TIA have many more tunes. A lot of work was put into polishing this game!
I had no idea of this work being done. It was great as of the the authors last version, needing only improved TIA note choices.

I had offered to help with the TIA music, and did a TIA conversion that I spent all of 10 minites to convert, showing that the TIA can sound quite acceptible. 

 

 

Now I would say, as a joke, the only thing wrong that I can find is that “you spelled Frogger wrong”. :)



#62 GoldenWheels OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 6, 2018 11:31 AM

Dont you guys want best possible audio from your games? Im surprised anyone would voluntarily choose a non-pokey version of anything! Were only talking a $20 difference (if you dont have pokeys lying around and need to source your own ballblazer)!

I've got the non-pokey version of Beef Drop and IMO it STILL sounds great.

 

To me it really depends on the game...Donkey Kong on the 7800 is a well known ear-destroyer. It sounds freakin' awful. There I'd want pokey (I've got my Xm version, if that thing ever...ahem). But for others...Id much rather just have the $20 for other games. IMO most times, the difference just ain't that great.

 

Besides, if I absolutely needed the best graphics or sounds...I'd be playing my PS4 instead of my 7800.



#63 Trebor OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 6, 2018 3:30 PM

Is that really TIA at 3:30+?? Spectacular!

 

It is indeed TIA. 

 

As a clarifying point though, it is under FAST mode; tempo would be slower when FAST mode is disabled.  ;)

 

The below bookmarks are detailed under the video description:

 

START: Complete Opening with Title...00:02

Game Highlights Part 1: POKEY, Full, Fast Mode Disable...00:55

Game Highlights Part 2: TIA, Compatible, Fast Mode Enable...03:01

Game Highlights Part 3: TIA, Full, Fast Mode Disable...04:13

Game Highlights Part 4: POKEY, Compatible, Fast Mode Enable...06:16

END: Easter Egg...07:27



#64 sramirez2008 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 6, 2018 3:41 PM

Thanks Trebor for this updated Froggie video! WOW!

Comments are off in this video, but I needed to post and cross post how spectacular Froggie is now!

Is that really TIA at 3:30+?? Spectacular!

 

Both Pokey and TIA have many more tunes. A lot of work was put into polishing this game!
I had no idea of this work being done. It was great as of the the authors last version, needing only improved TIA note choices...

 

 

Couldn't agree with you more.  I'm totally blown away by this video.  I was really happy with the last ROM as well.  I thought it played and sounded great (w/POKEY) on my Mateos.  Now I really can't wait for this cart to become available.  BTW, what controller do you use, Trebor?  Your gameplay is pretty fast (even without FAST mode) and smooth.  I'm usually moving back and forth more than you.  Guess I need more practice.  



#65 Trebor OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 6, 2018 3:53 PM

...Your gameplay is pretty fast (even without FAST mode) and smooth...

 

The game overall is smoother and Frogger is more responsive than ever.  Schmutzpuppe fine tuned what was already an "A" grade title, putting an extra coat of polish on everything.



#66 sramirez2008 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 6, 2018 4:41 PM

While the 2600 has the "Official Frogger", this may well become the "Definitive Frogger".  The gameplay and sounds are amazing.  Can't wait to get my hands on this one. 

Its beginning to feel like Christmas. :-D



#67 RevEng OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 6, 2018 4:55 PM

Schmutzpuppe did some really fine work on the TIA music. :thumbsup: (and of course the game itself!)

I'm a sucker for TIA music that's pure and in-tune, and there's lots to love here.

#68 TrekMD ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 6, 2018 5:54 PM

That sounds great both with TIA and POKEY!  Very well done!



#69 doug0909 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 6, 2018 8:10 PM

Thank you so much to the talented programmers for this and the other 7800 homebrews. Looks great on my emulator, will have to try it on real hardware (does anyone have cuttle cart 2 settings?).

I did always like, though, the way the 7800 versions of arcade ports sometimes threw in new twists, especially 2 player simultaneous modes (asteroids, centipede). I would have loved to see that here, either as a point competition game or a competition to get the majority (3) of the crossings on the screen first. I had a somewhat unfinished prototype of frogger on the 8 bit which allowed 2 players at once, and even unfinished it was pretty fun to play with a friend...

#70 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Sep 6, 2018 11:16 PM

Thanks Trebor for this updated Froggie video! WOW!

Comments are off in this video, but I needed to post and cross post how spectacular Froggie is now!

Is that really TIA at 3:30+?? Spectacular!

 

Both Pokey and TIA have many more tunes. A lot of work was put into polishing this game!
I had no idea of this work being done. It was great as of the the authors last version, needing only improved TIA note choices.

I had offered to help with the TIA music, and did a TIA conversion that I spent all of 10 minites to convert, showing that the TIA can sound quite acceptible. 

 

 

Now I would say, as a joke, the only thing wrong that I can find is that “you spelled Frogger wrong”. :)

Yes, please. Save the Pokeys. TIA audio is every bit as excellent as Beef Drop.

 

Question: if we get the tia version, and miracle of miracles, xm gets released, and connect it to one, it will revert to pokey sound, correct?



#71 Trebor OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 7, 2018 4:01 PM

Question: if we get the tia version, and miracle of miracles, xm gets released, and connect it to one, it will revert to pokey sound, correct?

 

Correct.  As demonstrated in the video, it shows a selectable option for XM/XBOARD (POKEY@450), even if auto detection of it failed for whatever reason:

 

Capture.PNG

 

Ditto for 'forcing' POKEY at the default address (@4000), or TIA sound.

 

*EDIT:  Just a heads-up, in harmony with another great feature of this game, the Atari 7800 Difficulty Switches Guide has been updated, as the Left Difficulty Switch manages whether a player begins with 3 or 5 lives.



#72 Dauber OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:23 PM

Is the otter in the final version?

#73 Albert OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 4, 2018 10:05 AM

Froggie is now available in the AtariAge Store!  And if you want a version with POKEY audio, I've added that as an option as well (you'll need to send in a POKEY or Ballblazer cart).  

 

 ..Al



#74 Mayhem OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 4, 2018 12:58 PM

Froggie is now available in the AtariAge Store!  And if you want a version with POKEY audio, I've added that as an option as well (you'll need to send in a POKEY or Ballblazer cart).  

 

 ..Al

 

Is the reason the POKEY version of Froggie is $10 more because of the different board needed? Also, do we have to supply the POKEY at order fulfilment because it is soldered to the board, not socketed, and thus why we can't it ourselves (or you could try) after the game is delivered?



#75 Albert OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Nov 4, 2018 1:03 PM

Is the reason the POKEY version of Froggie is $10 more because of the different board needed? Also, do we have to supply the POKEY at order fulfilment because it is soldered to the board, not socketed, and thus why we can't it ourselves (or you could try) after the game is delivered?

 

It's a more expensive board with more parts and takes longer for me to build.  Also, it's time consuming to remove POKEY chips from Ballblazer boards.  And there's more organization needed and communication with the customer as well.  

 

I'm happy to send the unlabeled cart to people if they want to install a POKEY themselves and then label the cart.  I do put a socket on the board for the POKEY. 

 

 ..Al







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