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What is the installed VBXE base in 2017?


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#51 Sheddy OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 3, 2017 4:25 AM

Then VBXE really is the missing link between the A8 machines and the Amiga. :)
And POKEY sounds AMAZING in that demo.


It's a lot more powerful than an Amiga. More like the missing link between Amiga AGA and Nvidia!
IMO it's best thought of as its own totally separate thing. Making full use of the VBXE is nothing like programming the Atari. Totally different art assets required too. The Atari "host" is mostly irrelevant at that point, and it wouldn't matter much what computer make or model of computer it is in. IE a VBXE core in a ZX Spectrum could do something identical if there was a version made for it.
We're very lucky to have it though, and if people want to program VBXE that's great of course.

#52 Heaven/TQA OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 3, 2017 10:46 AM

It's a lot more powerful than an Amiga. More like the missing link between Amiga AGA and Nvidia!
IMO it's best thought of as its own totally separate thing. Making full use of the VBXE is nothing like programming the Atari. Totally different art assets required too. The Atari "host" is mostly irrelevant at that point, and it wouldn't matter much what computer make or model of computer it is in. IE a VBXE core in a ZX Spectrum could do something identical if there was a version made for it.
We're very lucky to have it though, and if people want to program VBXE that's great of course.


Yeah that what I run into it.... the art assets take same amount of mem like on PC (as its an 320x256x256 Display or 640x) where the mighty 1,79 MHz 6502 struggles to shuffle in or even loading stuff from disk... thats not well thought from the core devs.

What could help is same as on Atari Lynx some hardware depacker for art assets...

The Lynx is well balanced system even its an 6502 and 64k but Blitter is powerful and has depacking of data build in and the 160x102 fits still to the 4mhz 6502 plus FPU.

Thats why the assets in my demo have a lot of blank pixels or are computed.

#53 Gunstar ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 3, 2017 2:38 PM

It seems to me that the VBXE and Rapidus are both needed to maximize the VBXE then...



#54 flashjazzcat ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 3, 2017 2:43 PM

HDDs (of vastly underutilised capacity) can load data at 64KB/s. How fast does it need to be? :)



#55 Gunstar ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 3, 2017 3:20 PM

HDDs (of vastly underutilised capacity) can load data at 64KB/s. How fast does it need to be? :)

At least 30fps fast, for full-motion video, right? :P


Edited by Gunstar, Sun Dec 3, 2017 3:22 PM.


#56 flashjazzcat ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 3, 2017 4:00 PM

At least 30fps fast, for full-motion video, right? :P

 

Phaeron has already done 60fps full motion video with a hard disk and no VBXE at all. :)



#57 Mathy OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 3, 2017 4:45 PM

Hello David

 

On a completely different note, ComputerEyes VBXE would be very cool. Niche, but cool.

 

Cool enough to stop global warming...

 

@Whoever is going to turn this into reality: ME WANT!!!!

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy



#58 Mathy OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 3, 2017 4:51 PM

Hello guys

 

HDDs (of vastly underutilised capacity) can load data at 64KB/s. How fast does it need to be? :)

 

A CD or DVD would probably be about as fast.  The big advantage of an optical disk is that you can easily replace one for the other.  Just burn all the stuff you need for one game on one disk.  No need for a complete file system, just shovel in the data.

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy



#59 Heaven/TQA OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Dec 4, 2017 1:28 AM

HDDs (of vastly underutilised capacity) can load data at 64KB/s. How fast does it need to be? :)

 

 

true.... ;)

 

but on stock 1050? ;)



#60 flashjazzcat ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Dec 4, 2017 1:48 AM

Well quite, but if you bought VBXE already, invest in a hard disk solution as well. :)

Edited by flashjazzcat, Mon Dec 4, 2017 1:48 AM.


#61 Gunstar ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Dec 4, 2017 8:55 AM

 

Phaeron has already done 60fps full motion video with a hard disk and no VBXE at all. :)

I'm referring to something with MUCH more color depth and MUCH higher resolution, and MUCH longer.



#62 flashjazzcat ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Dec 4, 2017 9:18 AM

I'm referring to something with MUCH more color depth and MUCH higher resolution, and MUCH longer.

 
Right, well: a SIDE2 can theoretically fill all of the VBXE VRAM in around ten seconds. Like I said: how fast does it need to be?

EDIT: Regarding video playback specifically, Rapidus has a DMA port which I guess would prove invaluable if any hardware ever takes advantage of it. :)

Edited by flashjazzcat, Mon Dec 4, 2017 9:29 AM.


#63 phaeron OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 5, 2017 12:35 AM

Length already isn't a problem for streaming video, the existing video player hack is already limited only by media size.

 

Bandwidth is the big problem for streaming VBXE video. The video player hack pulls data off the IDE bus at 509KB/sec. The problem is that the only way to get data from the IDE device onto the VBXE would be to copy it with the CPU. That's absolutely the wrong way to use the VBXE as the VBXE can only reach its full potential when it is not dependent on the CPU. Max speed that the 6502 can copy into VBXE is ~250KB/sec; targeting higher resolution/depth with half the data rate won't work without compression, and decompression would have to be done by the blitter. I'm skeptical that the blitter can handle compression good enough to hit quality/size ratio. I've done video compression in this ballpark before, but it was with a 33MHz 68000 and not a simple blitter. In the mean time, the existing video player hack is totally uncompressed, so it has no compression artifacts whatsoever.

 

In general, streaming tons of raw or nearly raw data isn't a very good use of VBXE, compared to enhanced productivity (multicolor 80-column) or enhanced game graphics. The blitter is fast enough to easily emulate a scrolling tilemap and sprites and it is sorely underused in existing VBXE software. VBXE being an internal add-on makes it relatively inaccessible, though, compared to a cartridge or PBI add-on.



#64 Matej OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 5, 2017 3:41 PM

I have Apple 2GS and Atari with Rapidus+VBXE+Ultimate 1MB is almost same...So now question is.How hard will be port some games from A2GS to our Atari?There are some cool games (ST/Amiga like) on it.We see ports from BBC Electron, C64 even Z80 ZX Spectrum on our Atari.Why not 65c816 Apple?Also want to see VBXE paint and sprite maker too...I want to do pixelart.I plan to have VBXE maybe Rapidus too.We need more games/demos/apps using 65c816/vbxe.Its great HW.

#65 Gunstar ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 5, 2017 4:01 PM

If you want it about the same as a 2GS (actually I think the VBXE graphics are far better than 2GS graphics aren't they?), and get ported 2GS games, then the Rapidus isn't a maybe for you, unless you are holding out for the F7 Turbo external version. Of course a VBXE only to start or at all can definitely still cover your pixel art ambitions, and I think, far better than a IIGS regardless of a 65c816.


Edited by Gunstar, Tue Dec 5, 2017 4:03 PM.


#66 davidcalgary29 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 5, 2017 4:12 PM

It's a lot more powerful than an Amiga. More like the missing link between Amiga AGA and Nvidia!
IMO it's best thought of as its own totally separate thing. Making full use of the VBXE is nothing like programming the Atari. Totally different art assets required too. The Atari "host" is mostly irrelevant at that point, and it wouldn't matter much what computer make or model of computer it is in. IE a VBXE core in a ZX Spectrum could do something identical if there was a version made for it.
We're very lucky to have it though, and if people want to program VBXE that's great of course.

 

But how DO you make full use of VBXE? Has anyone published a blog or tutorial for doing just this?



#67 Xebec OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 5, 2017 8:14 PM

VBXE is akin to the AGA upgrade on the Amiga - it doesn't totally replace the original chipset..

 

..

 

VBXE - useful on NTSC systems or should only really be installed on PAL?  



#68 davidcalgary29 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 5, 2017 11:53 PM

VBXE is akin to the AGA upgrade on the Amiga - it doesn't totally replace the original chipset..
 
..
 
VBXE - useful on NTSC systems or should only really be installed on PAL?

Im not surrendering this to the PAL world! With the exception of Night Driver and some demos, most VBXE programs work fine on my NTSC machine (thanks again, flashjazzcat!). I ooh and ahh every time I play Heartlight. :)

And I am very excited about trying out The Last Word. I just bought a PS/2 keyboard to use with TKII, so good word processing times are coming.

#69 Xebec OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 6, 2017 6:51 AM

Im not surrendering this to the PAL world! With the exception of Night Driver and some demos, most VBXE programs work fine on my NTSC machine (thanks again, flashjazzcat!). I ooh and ahh every time I play Heartlight. :)

And I am very excited about trying out The Last Word. I just bought a PS/2 keyboard to use with TKII, so good word processing times are coming.

 

Lol :).   The demos are what I want to see..   I have a system that is psuedo-PAL -- just the ANTIC swap and it works with my monitor..  colors pallette is probably off a bit but it seems to work for games like the Last V8 .. (you can finally play now :) ).

 

Yeah i'll have to order one of these and find someone to install it..  






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