Jump to content

Photo

any atari st 'replicas'/modernized available?


6 replies to this topic

#1 mr. engino OFFLINE  

mr. engino

    Space Invader

  • 10 posts

Posted Sun Dec 3, 2017 5:48 PM

While I and many others have a hankering for an atari st to mess around with, I have noticed that finding original hardware that is still in working condition to not only be pricey, but also a rarity (although I have found several 8-bit systems on ebay, as of 12/2017); especially if you want a set complete with monitor, keyboard, and mouse along with the system itself. It seems, however, that there are a select few other computers from years past that have had a 'remake' of sorts, (case-in-point, https://www.specnext.com/) which has left me wondering: are there any modernized atari st systems that not only exist, but are still available for purchase?

 

 

(second question: can the same be said for the atari 8-bit systems too?)



#2 AMenard OFFLINE  

AMenard

    Chopper Commander

  • 164 posts
  • Location:Beauharnois, Qc, Canada

Posted Sun Dec 3, 2017 6:39 PM

Emulation is good and there also the Mist FPGA with the ST core, but I don't know how well it does. I think they spend more effort on th amiga than on the ST.

#3 MrMaddog OFFLINE  

MrMaddog

    Dragonstomper

  • 554 posts
  • Still Atarian
  • Location:Parts Unknown

Posted Sun Dec 3, 2017 7:25 PM

Depends on what you mean by "modernized" Atari...  There's the Firebee which is a Falcon type computer (minus the DSP) but uses the ColdFire processor which is the most current Motorola/Freescale version of the 68K there is.  But it doesn't run ST games & demos like the MiST does (also a FPGA based ST clone).  But they're both expensive...

 

Or you can use a Raspberry PI to run BeePi  which is uses a modern version of GEM/TOS called FreeMiNT that's also on the Firebee.  But there's also a STe Mode for running games and older apps.



#4 ParanoidLittleMan OFFLINE  

ParanoidLittleMan

    Dragonstomper

  • 995 posts

Posted Mon Dec 4, 2017 1:40 AM

Some faithful remake of concrete ST model is in plan. Look for it in this forum - exxosuk is who started thread, where you can even suggest some features.

Idea is to make same core, with original CPU. Some components may be not original, but remakes because of sourcing problems. Some expansion connector changes are planned, for instance.

 

To add that Atari ST remake is at least 10x harder than Spectrum remake, even if it has no 10x more components.

 

Considering FPGA clones - that's most popular way now, as I see. Price is good, it is not for only 1 computer model. + you don't need to hunt old peripherals like monitor, keyboard etc.

Of course, there is incompatibility with some SW, games, more than with original.  Hmmm... what I talking here :-D  Yes, there is no 100% SW compatible ST model. TOS version and even RAM size in machine may cause some SW not working. But here must to add that in most cases the real cause is poor coding of such SW, and it can be solved to run.  But then, it can be patched for FPGA too.

What is most original requiring are fancy demos using plenty of undocumented, specific HW features (I would call it rather side features). Then you have practically 3 choices:

1 get original, including old monitor or TV.

2 Use emulator on some PC ... 

3 wait for some faithful clone. Now. the last option is a lottery in fact in some way. Somehow I don't expect that we will see 100% faithful clone ever. Unless some billioner (for instance Georg Soros suddenly decides to do something useful and good in his miserable life) will pump some serious money in it, what will never return .

 

For some medium retro activity - like gaming, little coding, 100% faithful is not necessary. I talked years ago about that we will have gradually less and less working oldies, and that fixing them will be problem and costy. 30 years old electronic is such. I see around plenty of old TVs ditched. Some are even in working condition. But they are not rarity, and are not 30 year old.



#5 leech OFFLINE  

leech

    Dragonstomper

  • 889 posts

Posted Thu Dec 7, 2017 4:58 PM

My thought on a remake has always been 'please for the love of all that is holy, ditch / improve two things. 

 

1) no more 15khz nonsense, this causes so much extra cost (getting scan doublers, finding Monitors that support 15khz is a challenge that will eventually become impossible.  Standardized (modern) output.  Probably HDMI, even VGA is going / gone away. 

 

2) Make it switchable between PAL/NTSC.

 

I think these are both already mentioned in that other thread :P



#6 ParanoidLittleMan OFFLINE  

ParanoidLittleMan

    Dragonstomper

  • 995 posts

Posted Fri Dec 8, 2017 1:49 AM

My thought on a remake has always been 'please for the love of all that is holy, ditch / improve two things. 

 

1) no more 15khz nonsense, this causes so much extra cost (getting scan doublers, finding Monitors that support 15khz is a challenge that will eventually become impossible.  Standardized (modern) output.  Probably HDMI, even VGA is going / gone away. 

 

2) Make it switchable between PAL/NTSC.

 

I think these are both already mentioned in that other thread :P

I'm afraid that there is some contradiciton in your ideas. You don't want 15KHz nonsense, and then talk about PAL/NTSC. There is no PAL/NTSC in HDMI, VGA.

Yes, 15KHz is obsolete, but things are that whole Atari ST is designed for it - in color modes. Doing color video at some 31KHz would need faster RAM, new Glue, MMU, Shifter.

So, the scan doubler, but internal is better solution. That will give max compatibility.

Considering PAL/NTSC switchability - it is actually only 50/60Hz switch when using VGA or HDMI - of course, internal freq. in Atari. What should be converted to proper, compatible VGA freq, for instance - and that means problem - most of monitors can not 100Hz, so how will work at 120 ?  Problem is not simple. We need 2x higher hor. freq,, while vertical should be 60-70Hz ,



#7 mr. engino OFFLINE  

mr. engino

    Space Invader

  • Topic Starter
  • 10 posts

Posted Fri Dec 8, 2017 10:18 AM

just got around to reading these. Interesting suggestions; but I'm gonna shy away from emulators, as they just don't have the same appeal as a physical, dedicated machine. Totally forgot about the firebee, as I looked that one up a while ago! I think I will give the beepi a go, as I'm expecting a pi3 for Christmas!






0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users