any atari st 'replicas'/modernized available?

[mr. engino]

While I and many others have a hankering for an atari st to mess around with, I have noticed that finding original hardware that is still in working condition to not only be pricey, but also a rarity (although I have found several 8-bit systems on ebay, as of 12/2017); especially if you want a set complete with monitor, keyboard, and mouse along with the system itself. It seems, however, that there are a select few other computers from years past that have had a 'remake' of sorts, (case-in-point, https://www.specnext.com/) which has left me wondering: are there any modernized atari st systems that not only exist, but are still available for purchase?

 

 

(second question: can the same be said for the atari 8-bit systems too?)

[AMenard]

Emulation is good and there also the Mist FPGA with the ST core, but I don't know how well it does. I think they spend more effort on th amiga than on the ST.

[MrMaddog]

Depends on what you mean by "modernized" Atari... There's the Firebee which is a Falcon type computer (minus the DSP) but uses the ColdFire processor which is the most current Motorola/Freescale version of the 68K there is. But it doesn't run ST games & demos like the MiST does (also a FPGA based ST clone). But they're both expensive...

 

Or you can use a Raspberry PI to run BeePi which is uses a modern version of GEM/TOS called FreeMiNT that's also on the Firebee. But there's also a STe Mode for running games and older apps.

[ParanoidLittleMan]

Some faithful remake of concrete ST model is in plan. Look for it in this forum - exxosuk is who started thread, where you can even suggest some features.

Idea is to make same core, with original CPU. Some components may be not original, but remakes because of sourcing problems. Some expansion connector changes are planned, for instance.

 

To add that Atari ST remake is at least 10x harder than Spectrum remake, even if it has no 10x more components.

 

Considering FPGA clones - that's most popular way now, as I see. Price is good, it is not for only 1 computer model. + you don't need to hunt old peripherals like monitor, keyboard etc.

Of course, there is incompatibility with some SW, games, more than with original. Hmmm... what I talking here Yes, there is no 100% SW compatible ST model. TOS version and even RAM size in machine may cause some SW not working. But here must to add that in most cases the real cause is poor coding of such SW, and it can be solved to run. But then, it can be patched for FPGA too.

What is most original requiring are fancy demos using plenty of undocumented, specific HW features (I would call it rather side features). Then you have practically 3 choices:

1 get original, including old monitor or TV.

2 Use emulator on some PC ...

3 wait for some faithful clone. Now. the last option is a lottery in fact in some way. Somehow I don't expect that we will see 100% faithful clone ever. Unless some billioner (for instance Georg Soros suddenly decides to do something useful and good in his miserable life) will pump some serious money in it, what will never return .

 

For some medium retro activity - like gaming, little coding, 100% faithful is not necessary. I talked years ago about that we will have gradually less and less working oldies, and that fixing them will be problem and costy. 30 years old electronic is such. I see around plenty of old TVs ditched. Some are even in working condition. But they are not rarity, and are not 30 year old.

[leech]

My thought on a remake has always been 'please for the love of all that is holy, ditch / improve two things.

 

1) no more 15khz nonsense, this causes so much extra cost (getting scan doublers, finding Monitors that support 15khz is a challenge that will eventually become impossible. Standardized (modern) output. Probably HDMI, even VGA is going / gone away.

 

2) Make it switchable between PAL/NTSC.

 

I think these are both already mentioned in that other thread

[ParanoidLittleMan]

My thought on a remake has always been 'please for the love of all that is holy, ditch / improve two things.

 

1) no more 15khz nonsense, this causes so much extra cost (getting scan doublers, finding Monitors that support 15khz is a challenge that will eventually become impossible. Standardized (modern) output. Probably HDMI, even VGA is going / gone away.

 

2) Make it switchable between PAL/NTSC.

 

I think these are both already mentioned in that other thread

I'm afraid that there is some contradiciton in your ideas. You don't want 15KHz nonsense, and then talk about PAL/NTSC. There is no PAL/NTSC in HDMI, VGA.

Yes, 15KHz is obsolete, but things are that whole Atari ST is designed for it - in color modes. Doing color video at some 31KHz would need faster RAM, new Glue, MMU, Shifter.

So, the scan doubler, but internal is better solution. That will give max compatibility.

Considering PAL/NTSC switchability - it is actually only 50/60Hz switch when using VGA or HDMI - of course, internal freq. in Atari. What should be converted to proper, compatible VGA freq, for instance - and that means problem - most of monitors can not 100Hz, so how will work at 120 ? Problem is not simple. We need 2x higher hor. freq,, while vertical should be 60-70Hz ,

[mr. engino]

just got around to reading these. Interesting suggestions; but I'm gonna shy away from emulators, as they just don't have the same appeal as a physical, dedicated machine. Totally forgot about the firebee, as I looked that one up a while ago! I think I will give the beepi a go, as I'm expecting a pi3 for Christmas!

[pixelmischief]

...I'm gonna shy away from emulators...I think I will give the beepi a go

 

BeePi is emulation. That said, I think emulation is the way to go; even a dedicated emulation platform like BeePi.

[WolfpackN64]

The Vampire V4 stand-alone could count as a modern day ST replacement, but it doesn't come with case and it's probably not 100% software compatible.

[ParanoidLittleMan]

The Vampire V4 stand-alone could count as a modern day ST replacement, but it doesn't come with case and it's probably not 100% software compatible.

OMG. That's not compatible with most of ST SW - probably with 90% ++. Not ST replacement, just small part of it.

[lp060]

The Vampire V4 stand-alone could count as a modern day ST replacement, but it doesn't come with case and it's probably not 100% software compatible.

A whole year has passed and nothing. I don't think vaporware counts.

 

The only tangible options are:

Used Hades or Milan if you can find one.

FireBee, might currently be sold out. http://firebee.org/

Suska https://www.experiment-s.de/en/

MiST https://github.com/mist-devel/mist-board/wiki

MiSTer https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki

Various emulators, pretty easy to find. Emulators overall provide the most software compatibility since they allow multiple configurations.

[Christos]

MiSTer https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki

Various emulators, pretty easy to find. Emulators overall provide the most software compatibility since they allow multiple configurations.

 

MiSTer doesn't run the ST core and it probably never will.

 

The Vampire is an amiga thingy. Only 1 or 2 persons think there was ever any chance they'll release an atari version.

[lp060]

 

MiSTer doesn't run the ST core and it probably never will.

 

The Vampire is an amiga thingy. Only 1 or 2 persons think there was ever any chance they'll release an atari version.

You are right, I forgot MiSTer doesn't have the Atari ST core.

Edited December 13, 2017 by lp060

[WolfpackN64]

A whole year has passed and nothing. I don't think vaporware counts.

 

The only tangible options are:

Used Hades or Milan if you can find one.

FireBee, might currently be sold out. http://firebee.org/

Suska https://www.experiment-s.de/en/

MiST https://github.com/mist-devel/mist-board/wiki

MiSTer https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki

Various emulators, pretty easy to find. Emulators overall provide the most software compatibility since they allow multiple configurations.

It's been barely half a year. It's not like they haven't produced products before so calling it vaporware out of the gate is a bit dishonest.

[ParanoidLittleMan]

There will be nothing from Vampire, Atari version. Just because people working on it is not serious about it.

[lp060]

It's been barely half a year. It's not like they haven't produced products before so calling it vaporware out of the gate is a bit dishonest.

It's been just over a full year since the "Atari announcement" was added to the standalone road map. I don't know where you got your time frame.

Oct 25th 2016 -> http://www.apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=1&note=2723

To clarify, it's vaporware to me until I see an actual working prototype with an Atari core.

Edited December 14, 2017 by lp060

[MrMaddog]

You can use EmuTOS (Kickstart ROM) and FreeMiNT (w/ fVDI driver for SAGE) on the Vampire, but it only runs on Amiga based hardware. I doubt they'll get around to doing ST versions...

[Wayneb123]

The FPGA Arcade is supposed to have an Atari ST core, don't know when or if it will ever happen because the designer is working on new hardware versions.

It seems Amiga cores always get the bulk of development on most of these FPGA projects.

 

I have a MiST and also a FPGA Arcade, the upgrade daughter board for the FPGA Arcade is supposed to allow things like real floppy support, I am beginning to doubt they will ever get around to releasing an Atari core.