Ran some experiments on 5200 with adapters to see if I could get a mouse wo

[ave1]

Well, I managed to make a new controller discovery on the 5200 with adapters so check it out:

 

It's not the ideal controller in most games, but it performs nicely in River Raid and Beamrider.... Will be checking things out on 5200 Tempest soon.

[0078265317]

I did not see the whole thing but it looks good. It also prompted me to make my own discovery. I will update later.

[bohoki]

these are some fun experiments i wonder if there would be some way to get a snes or genesis adapter and try the mega mouse or the snes mouse

[0078265317]

these are some fun experiments i wonder if there would be some way to get a snes or genesis adapter and try the mega mouse or the snes mouse

 

There is. I made a video and thread in 5200 section here. Wii mote working on 5200. But sadly could not get the super Nintendo mouse to work.

[0078265317]

Just finished the video. Cool.

[Swami]

Well, I managed to make a new controller discovery on the 5200 with adapters so check it out:

 

It's not the ideal controller in most games, but it performs nicely in River Raid and Beamrider.... Will be checking things out on 5200 Tempest soon.

 

Any opinions on which mouse/keyboard to PS1/2 adapter works best for the PS1/2 games that weren't designed for mice? I heard the best, three strong positives and one nut with a negative, about the SmartJoy Frag. The one review I found for the Mayflash Max Shooter and the Speedlink were quite negative. No way the Frag will work?

[ave1]

I have tried many different ways to get the Smartjoy Frag (Xbox version) to work. In one of my experiments, I did get the fire button on the Logitech Track Man to work (unfortunately no directional controls with the ball) but never could get the keyboard to respond in any way- Even when I got a powered USB hub involved. I may try again, because the Smartjoy Frag does definitely receive the most favorable reviews of all of them.

 

I do have another idea, and that is to track down the Playstation version of the Smartjoy Frag and run experiments on it. It unfortunately is one rare item that hardly ever shows up on eBay...

Edited December 5, 2017 by ave1

[ave1]

these are some fun experiments i wonder if there would be some way to get a snes or genesis adapter and try the mega mouse or the snes mouse

Unfortunately, the only way to get the NES or Genesis controllers hooked up to the 5200 involves the Masterplay Clone which would be sending digital signals out, not analog.

 

If the Genesis Mega Mouse works in a way that is digital then it could work, but that's a longshot. I will look into it.

[Swami]

Well, I managed to make a new controller discovery on the 5200 with adapters so check it out:

 

It's not the ideal controller in most games, but it performs nicely in River Raid and Beamrider.... Will be checking things out on 5200 Tempest soon.

It may all be becoming a blur with 73 videos, but I'm curious what you would consider the best wireless controller setup; Overall, for the ease of dexterity, controller freedom and how well it worked with 5200 games.

[ave1]

Don't go wireless on the purely analog titles like Super Breakout, Kaboom, Missile Command, and Star Wars Arcade. These work best with a standard 5200 controller, a PC controller in a 15 pin to 5200 adapter, or possibly the legendary Trakball (well, not Star Wars). Tempest and Centipede also should be played with the trakball.

If you have a Masterplay Clone, and want to play digital games like Pac-Man, Dig Dug, and even Centipede you could try wireless joysticks made for the 2600 that I think are great: RGA International Wireless Joysticks (take a look at them here: http://www.ataricompendium.com/game_library/controllers/controllers.html )

You can also use Genesis wireless controllers on the 5200 through the Masterplay Clone for the digital games (even the two button games like Defender).

Another option for digital games is to use a unique method to get Wii remotes, Wii U procontrollers, PS3 Dual Shock 3, and PS4 Dual Shock 4 controllers working wirelessly on the 5200 (even on the two button games). Surprisingly there's no significant lag using this method):

Edited December 6, 2017 by ave1

[0078265317]

PlayStation controllers also work great with the tototek megadrive to ps adapter and masterplay clone. The analog thumbsticks work great for pacman and such.

[0078265317]

I also got one of these. We will see what happens.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PS-2-PS2-Female-to-9-Pin-Serial-Female-DB9-Adapter-Connecter-Black/282659269890?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

[ave1]

The to PS/2 to serial port 9 pin adapter will have signals that are unlike the signals that go through the 9 pins of a Genesis or Colecovision or 2600/7800 controller plug. I wish this wasn't the case...

 

When it comes to my experiment video, I did use one of these serial to PS/2 adapters attached to a powerpoint presentation hand controller (which has a serial 9 pin plug) that ultimately "worked" on the 5200 when connected to all the adapters. Just not all that great of a controller to accurately play Star Wars Arcade... but it was an interesting result, nonetheless.

[Swami]

The to PS/2 to serial port 9 pin adapter will have signals that are unlike the signals that go through the 9 pins of a Genesis or Colecovision or 2600/7800 controller plug. I wish this wasn't the case...

 

When it comes to my experiment video, I did use one of these serial to PS/2 adapters attached to a powerpoint presentation hand controller (which has a serial 9 pin plug) that ultimately "worked" on the 5200 when connected to all the adapters. Just not all that great of a controller to accurately play Star Wars Arcade... but it was an interesting result, nonetheless.

I was thinking about how there are a few mice/trackballs out there that have variable resolution that you can set with switches on the peripheral itself. The CH products DT225 is such a trackball that can be set from 800 dpi down to 20 dpi. I think most of the mice you tried have dpi from 200 to 1200. It makes me wonder if the best mice were the lowest resolution and if would work better with a 20 dpi mouse. Problem with the CH Products one is it has become a bit of collectors item that goes for about $75 used or over $150 new. However, I thought you might know of something like this that is more affordable or a really old PS/2 that has a native dpi of 20-50.

 

Edit: Thought I would add: I think the Atari CX-22 and CX-80 trackballs for 2600/7800/A8 have a native dpi of 80. I don't know what the 5200 trackball works at. It sounds like the first PS/2 mice by IBM were 200dpi. The Best Electronics PC trackball is apparently switchable from 50 to 200 dpi, although it just says 200dpi for the Best Electronics ST trackball. You may need the recommended Belkin serial-to-PS/2 converter to get the PS/2 driver operational. Seems like someone made a 100dpi PS/2 trackball but I don't remember who. Trackball users may just wish to use the 5200 trackball, so if it is actual mice that would be an improvement, you may not find a standard PS/2 mouse with dpi less than 200. 200 DPI was pretty much the standard when the IBM Personal System/2 was introduced in 1987.

[Swami]

Well, I managed to make a new controller discovery on the 5200 with adapters so check it out:

 

It's not the ideal controller in most games, but it performs nicely in River Raid and Beamrider.... Will be checking things out on 5200 Tempest soon.

 

One other question. Have you ever tried a Commodore 1350 or 1351 mouse in joystick mode with the MasterPlay? Not sure how the pin-to-pin matching is for Commodore to Genesis.

[0078265317]

 

One other question. Have you ever tried a Commodore 1350 or 1351 mouse in joystick mode with the MasterPlay? Not sure how the pin-to-pin matching is for Commodore to Genesis.

Great idea.

[Swami]

Great idea.

 

I don't have a 5200, but I think about it a lot now, especially with some of these adapters and homebrews. Used to be I was suspicious it would be more satisfactory on MAME where you could emulate digital or analog to suit the game with whatever controller you could rig to your PC.

[ave1]

Swami- thanks for the info. I am probably not spending higher than $20 for an old mouse/trackball, so that rules out the ones made by CH Products and the Best Electronics PC trackball...

 

I did buy a $1 3-button serial mouse at a second hand store yesterday and plugged it into the serial to PS/2 adapter to try it. Got no response, so I'm left thinking that those PS/2 adapters only work with mice that have been preprogrammed for compatibility with adapters like that. I have found one that may work with a PS/2 adapter on Ebay that may be under 200 dpi but I'm not sure... Will have to look into this a bit further.

 

Regarding the Commodore mouse in joystick mode being used with the Masterplay Clone, I'm pretty sure it's going to work because I used my 2600 Trakball with the M.C. and it worked on digital control games. Not Star Wars Arcade or Missile Command... In my 5th episode of Wired-Up Retro I played a few digital games with the 2600 Trakball as well as the Master System Sega Sports Pad with good results.

[Swami]

Swami- thanks for the info. I am probably not spending higher than $20 for an old mouse/trackball, so that rules out the ones made by CH Products and the Best Electronics PC trackball...

 

I did buy a $1 3-button serial mouse at a second hand store yesterday and plugged it into the serial to PS/2 adapter to try it. Got no response, so I'm left thinking that those PS/2 adapters only work with mice that have been preprogrammed for compatibility with adapters like that. I have found one that may work with a PS/2 adapter on Ebay that may be under 200 dpi but I'm not sure... Will have to look into this a bit further.

 

Regarding the Commodore mouse in joystick mode being used with the Masterplay Clone, I'm pretty sure it's going to work because I used my 2600 Trakball with the M.C. and it worked on digital control games. Not Star Wars Arcade or Missile Command... In my 5th episode of Wired-Up Retro I played a few digital games with the 2600 Trakball as well as the Master System Sega Sports Pad with good results.

The serial mice are still a mystery to me. I've never got more than the L and R button to work with serial mice on anything they were not specifically supported on, even with emulator adapters.

 

I have since successfully tried the Commodore 1351 mouse in 1350 joystick mode playing Joust on my Atari 2600 and it seems responsive (moves when the mouse moves and in the right direction), but only after a thorough cleaning of the mouse inside and out with alcohol wipes. However, it also seems a bit slow and sluggish in these movements. I'm not sure if I'm just not used to the old, old mousepad type ball mice from the 1980's like the original C64 and Apple macintosh mice, or the resolution is actually too low. It might work better after some getting used to and having a large table area for mousing. It would be nice to have more access to more information on the dpi of these 1980's mice, although it seems so far that it wasn't and isn't commonly available for these early mice.

 

Edit:

Something related: The IBM PS/2 and PS/2 protocol were released in 1987. An article about an ad for a "high res" Logitech 320 dpi mouse from a few months later states 200 dpi is the previous max (likely resolution for the 1987 IBM PS/2 mouse and PS/2 Note mouse).

 

https://techreport.com/blog/14452/it-was-twenty-years-ago-today

 

CX-22 (1983): 24 notches in optical coding wheel attached to 3/8 inch dia spinning cylinder in contact with ball works out to 41 dpi.

The Kraft TripleTrack Trackball (1990) is apparently double that, to pair with the Atari ST and Amiga Series (both 1985, 82 dpi), but has a C64 mode that acts as a joystick.

I am not sure if these wheel encoder mice dpi values translate directly into the joystick mode dpi

 

Ref: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/243453-atari-2600-trak-ball-games/page-20

[bohoki]

i was going to suggest using a 2600 wico trackball or atari 2600 trackball with a masterplay

[ave1]

i was going to suggest using a 2600 wico trackball or atari 2600 trackball with a masterplay

Sure that'll work on the digital games, but not analog games like Star Wars Arcade and The Last Starfighter. I am looking to get fully analog trackballs or at least mice working on those games.

[ave1]

Swami, that's all very interesting information. Now if someone would make a Masterplay Clone with not only analog 2600-paddle compatibility onboard, but analog Commodore 1351 mouse compatibility (or maybe Kraft Triple Track Atari ST or Amiga trackball compatibility) that'd be really great.

[Swami]

Swami, that's all very interesting information. Now if someone would make a Masterplay Clone with not only analog 2600-paddle compatibility onboard, but analog Commodore 1351 mouse compatibility (or maybe Kraft Triple Track Atari ST or Amiga trackball compatibility) that'd be really great.

Hmmm. So you're saying the mouse traveling through the SpeedLink Redeemer and Innovation Smart Joy adapter retains the analog ability to play the analog games with the mouse/trackball, but the 1351 and Kraft trackball in joystick mode with the MasterPlay Clone will not work for the analog type control games, only the digital type control games. I was assuming the speedlink and/or Smart Joy converted the mouse from proportional analog to digital.

 

Edit: Sorry, I see the bit about the CX22 with the trackball in your post above now. I've had a cold this week and my information retention isn't the best. In this context, it's a little surprising the adapters in your OP video can convert the mouse signal to 5200 joystick while retaining analog compatibility.

[Swami]

Swami, that's all very interesting information. Now if someone would make a Masterplay Clone with not only analog 2600-paddle compatibility onboard, but analog Commodore 1351 mouse compatibility (or maybe Kraft Triple Track Atari ST or Amiga trackball compatibility) that'd be really great.

If you want to try a proportional mouse from the 8-bit era, you can make a CX22/CX80 Trak-ball in trackball mode or atari ST/Amiga mouse work as an HID USB mouse on a PC by using the 2600daptor 2 ($32+shipping). For instance, I can use a CX22, CX80, Atari STmouse or Amiga mouse as a regular proportional mouse with Microsoft Word and Firefox Browser. BTW, due to some historical oddities, the ST mouse compatible mode is referred to as CX80 mode. In theory, it would work with the Redeemer and Smart Joy adapter, but as you've showed with some of the mice, no guarantees. It probably depends on the PS/2 and HID compatibilities of the various components.

 

http://www.2600-daptor.com/

[ave1]

Yes- analog gets through the Emulator Smartjoy PS2 to PC adapter. The Speedlink Redeemer adapter also sends through analog signals, but the mice & trackballs I used with both these adapters are over 400 dpi and the 5200 game action onscreen is moving pretty fast with very little displacement in the controller. It is analog, but the sensitivity is quite high... and then there's the recentering issue when you stop moving the mouse/trackball which is the Speedlink Redeemer's fault.

 

Your idea about the 2600dapter 2 and the 8 bit era trackballs/mice (41 to 82 dpi) is intriguing. I'd have to take the USB plug of the 2600dapter 2 and put one of the USB-to-PS/2 adapters on it and there's no guarantee that's going to work... but it might. hmmmm....

Edited December 15, 2017 by ave1