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Sega Model 3 & The Dreamcast - WTF Went Wrong?!?


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#1 Parallax Scroll OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 5, 2017 10:17 AM

 

 

 

Remember the awesome ports of Scud Race, Daytona USA 2, Star Wars Trilogy Arcade and Le Mans 24 that came out on the Sega Dreamcast? No, me neither. WTF was that all about then Sega? Let's investigate!

Sega Katana Scud Race tech demo development footage reproduced with kind permission from YouTuber Mahoujanai's video 'katana proto'. Thanks again!

 

 

 

I absolutely agree with everything said in that video.  

 

Sega could have easily modified the cars in Scud Race aka Sega Super GT for Dreamcast, and it should've been a pack-in game to show off the hardware, like Altered Beast was for Genesis.



#2 keepdreamin ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 5, 2017 10:33 AM

Dreamcast was based around the Naomi hardware, not Model 3.

That's why we got games like Crazy Taxi and 18 Wheeler, but not HD and LA Riders

Edited by keepdreamin, Tue Dec 5, 2017 10:36 AM.


#3 Parallax Scroll OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 5, 2017 12:40 PM

I know that.  Dreamcast is based on NAOMI hardware, or rather, NAOMI is based on Dreamcast hardware.

 

Model 3 was a totally different architecture. but that wasn't the point really.  I was more impressed with Model 3 games for their time and the majority of them never came out on Dreamcast, especially the best of them like Daytona USA 2, Star Wars Arcade Trilogy.



#4 keepdreamin ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 5, 2017 1:19 PM

I know that.  Dreamcast is based on NAOMI hardware, or rather, NAOMI is based on Dreamcast hardware.
 
Model 3 was a totally different architecture. but that wasn't the point really.  I was more impressed with Model 3 games for their time and the majority of them never came out on Dreamcast, especially the best of them like Daytona USA 2, Star Wars Arcade Trilogy.


Well, that's the answer. Whether you like it or not is a different story

#5 enoofu OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 5, 2017 1:24 PM

Not just that the hardware is totally different, Star Wars Trilogy for example is a 20 minute rail shooter. Plus Coin OP IP licensing is different then Console or PC.



#6 keepdreamin ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 5, 2017 4:56 PM

I think we can agree blatantly obvious reasons doesn't need "WTF?!?!'s attached, right?

 

I didn't watch the video either, but just judging from title it doesn't need viewing.


Edited by keepdreamin, Tue Dec 5, 2017 4:58 PM.


#7 Austin OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 5, 2017 9:23 PM

Nearly every generation saw hits and misses when it came to arcade conversions. A shining example for me personally is OutRunners. Why was it not ported to Saturn like it should have? Oh well, it wasn't.. I can choose to dwell on it like a teenager filled with angst, or I can choose to enjoy the stuff that actually saw the light of day.

 

The Dreamcast in particular had loads of great arcade ports. Focusing on a select few we didn't get is overlooking the great ones that we did.

 

I watched the first few moments of that video and the guy basically says something along the lines of, "When I heard of the Dreamcast I was expecting there to be loads of great arcade conversions. However, that idea was too good to be true." I rolled my eyes and pretty much tuned out at that point.



#8 spacecadet OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 5, 2017 10:28 PM

I mean, a lot of Model 3 games *did* appear on the Dreamcast. Virtua Fighter 3tb, Sega Bass Fishing, Fighting Vipers 2, Sega Rally 2, Virtual On: Oratorio Tangram, and a few others were ported. Probably half the entire Model 3 library.

 

I haven't watched the video all the way through but the guy's beef seems to be that the Model 3 games *he* liked weren't ported. And I'll bet a big part of that is just the fact that the Dreamcast only lasted about 2 years. Dirt Devils was rumored and Emergency Call Ambulance, for example, was actually announced but never released, because the system was discontinued. So there no doubt would have been more Model 3 ports.

 

It's no big mystery and not some big conspiracy to keep this guy's favorite games out of his hands. Sega was doing the best it could with porting its most popular arcade games in a timely manner. And they released a lot of them, given the short time period the DC was on the market.


Edited by spacecadet, Tue Dec 5, 2017 10:29 PM.


#9 MrMaddog OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 5, 2017 11:08 PM

Virtua Fighter 3 was ported from Model 3 to Dreamcast...and it wasn't that good.

 

There, I've saved everyone from having to watch yet another YouTube rant.



#10 tbb033 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Dec 5, 2017 11:21 PM

 

 

 

 

 

I absolutely agree with everything said in that video.  

 

Sega could have easily modified the cars in Scud Race aka Sega Super GT for Dreamcast, and it should've been a pack-in game to show off the hardware, like Altered Beast was for Genesis.

Pack-ins were pretty much dead by the time of the dreamcast. Replaced by special editions and occasional bundles.



#11 Austin OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 6, 2017 1:20 AM

Pack-ins were pretty much dead by the time of the dreamcast. Replaced by special editions and occasional bundles.

 

Can't forget demo discs becoming the standard kind of pack-in for a short while (PS1, Saturn and Dreamcast in particular).



#12 keepdreamin ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 6, 2017 2:28 AM

 "When I heard of the Dreamcast I was expecting there to be loads of great arcade conversions. However, that idea was too good to be true." I rolled my eyes and pretty much tuned out at that point.

 

 

ha, I'll just take your word for it.  Still not going to give that guy a view  :) 

 

it's flooded with arcade ports.  Consumers were looking for large budget productions, like Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy X, GTA 3 etc..  It was quite telling comparing the DC, and PS2's libraries side by side in the store back in the day.  You look at the PS2 lineup, then walk over to the DC section and see games like Mars Matrix, Dynamite Cop, Heavy Metal Geomatrix, 18 Wheeler, Typing of the Dead etc..  



#13 spacecadet OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Dec 6, 2017 3:29 PM

it's flooded with arcade ports.


Yes but not the very specific arcade ports from a very specific arcade board that he wanted :)
 

I could see making a video about Sega neglecting the Model 3 on the Dreamcast if that in fact happened. Even if the DC was flooded with arcade ports generally, if Sega for some reason really seemed to ignore their Model 3 games, that would be a worthwhile video. Was the Dreamcast not powerful enough? Did Sega's arcade and home divisions have some kind of beef with each other? Was Sega just trying to move on to NAOMI and kill the Model 3? I'd be curious to know!

 

I mean as a guy who makes YouTube videos myself, I have to be careful with my critiques of other videos. I don't really have a problem with vanity projects. If a guy's into arcade racing games, then more power to him if he wants to make a video asking why there weren't more arcade racing games on the Dreamcast! (Though tbh, there were a lot. But hey, if someone wants more, I mean the mind can't control what the heart wants.)

 

I just think he's made up a premise that doesn't hold water for asking that question. The answer to "Dreamcast and the Model 3 - wtf went wrong?" is "nothing." Or, if you want to take a global view, the answer is "the Dreamcast was discontinued."

 

I skipped around a bit and then went to the end, and his conclusion is that the M3 games that did exist had issues, and Sega wanted to compete with Sony and ignore their arcade roots. And that just doesn't make sense when at least half a dozen M3 games were ported, at least four or five of them were really good, more had been rumored and even announced, and the system was cancelled after just 2 years. 100% of the reason for the games he wanted not making it onto the Dreamcast was that it had a really short lifespan, and that's it. Just imagine if the system sold 100 million units and lasted for 6 or 7 years - Sega'd be mining their back catalog for every stupid game they ever came up with, releasing tons of compilations and other budgetware to make a quick buck and fill in gaps in their release schedule wherever they could. But the Dreamcast just never had the numbers to make that either necessary or financially viable.

 

Tangent alert: I went to a Sega party in the 2nd year of the Dreamcast that ends up being my counterpoint to a lot of stuff like this. At that party, Sega had about 150 custom arcade machines set up with Dreamcasts running all their upcoming games. (I would love to know what happened to these, because they made marquees and everything.) That sure doesn't sound like a company ignoring their arcade roots...






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