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1088XEL Atari ITX Motherboard DIY Builders Thread

1088XEL JOY2PIC-STIK XEL-CF-][ UAV Sophia U1MB

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#251 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:08 PM

The only issue I realized is, that the top cover might be thicker as needed.


Aluminum isn't as strong as the original thinner steel plate, especially considering there is now a large hole in it, so opted for a thicker material just to be on the safe side. Anyone is free to adjust this thickness as well as the panel color in the FPD application, but no guarantees that a thinner material works out better. So with the thicker panel you get a ring of silver colored aluminum exposed around the top edge, which still looks good in my opinion. Good to hear it fits.
 
On that cart tunnel fit issue you mentioned, do you think it could relate to the cart connector being off center when it got soldered to the motherboard? If not, let me know if you think it's an issue requiring adjustment, since I could always nudge the hole in either the X or Y direction if needed. This stuff is hard to get perfect on the first or even second go around, due to the difficulty in taking measurements when things are not all on the same plane.

BTW, I use 6-32 x 3/8" flat head screws to secure the cart tunnel to the board (the screws will self thread into the PCB for perfectly aligned fit). I then twist on some .25" x .25" 6-32 threaded round aluminum spacers underneath which serve as supports to keep the board from bending when inserting carts. I should probably post a pic.
 
You'll need to glue in that rear panel when you get the CF adapter mounted, since pushing in that CF will probably loosen the panel over time.

#252 Brentarian OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:49 PM

For those that want that cool Atari logo here is the source: https://www.etsy.com...=sr_gallery-1-7


Thanks -- I forgot to order one of these.

Is there enough room on the back panel to accomodate a second CF slot?

#253 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:08 PM

Thanks -- I forgot to order one of these.
Is there enough room on the back panel to accomodate a second CF slot?


Yes there is, but I haven't made one yet. Next week I'm expecting a top panel to arrive with a double CF slot in it, let me verify that all is ok with that and then I'll upload a revised rear panel with a double slot as well. In fact there will be a few new panels, so I'll just make up a new zipped file and swap it for the older one on my site.

#254 Spaced Cowboy OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:35 PM

Quick question regarding the XEL-CF-][ ... how fast is a CF-to-memory copy ? And how fast is a CF-to-CF copy ?

I've ordered one anyway, I'm just curious :)

#255 flashjazzcat OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:46 PM

Quick question regarding the XEL-CF-][ ... how fast is a CF-to-memory copy ? And how fast is a CF-to-CF copy ?


Just did a quick (and rough) test here copying a 720KB file from a 512 bytes/sector partition on one card to a 512 byter on another card and it took around thirty seconds.

Read speed off the disk is about 65KB/s including file system overhead.

Edited by flashjazzcat, Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:46 PM.


#256 Spaced Cowboy OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:10 PM

That's about 50k/sec (1440k/30 secs) ... pretty darn fast, actually, considering the size of your average program :) Cool!

Edit: and then I saw your edit about read speed. I guess reads are faster than writes then, to get the 65k/sec :) Not that I'm complaining :)

Edited by Spaced Cowboy, Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:12 PM.


#257 LarryL OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:49 PM

Aluminum isn't as strong as the original thinner steel plate, especially considering there is now a large hole in it, so opted for a thicker material just to be on the safe side. Anyone is free to adjust this thickness as well as the panel color in the FPD application, but no guarantees that a thinner material works out better. So with the thicker panel you get a ring of silver colored aluminum exposed around the top edge, which still looks good in my opinion. Good to hear it fits.
 
On that cart tunnel fit issue you mentioned, do you think it could relate to the cart connector being off center when it got soldered to the motherboard? If not, let me know if you think it's an issue requiring adjustment, since I could always nudge the hole in either the X or Y direction if needed. This stuff is hard to get perfect on the first or even second go around, due to the difficulty in taking measurements when things are not all on the same plane.

BTW, I use 6-32 x 3/8" flat head screws to secure the cart tunnel to the board (the screws will self thread into the PCB for perfectly aligned fit). I then twist on some .25" x .25" 6-32 threaded round aluminum spacers underneath which serve as supports to keep the board from bending when inserting carts. I should probably post a pic.
 
You'll need to glue in that rear panel when you get the CF adapter mounted, since pushing in that CF will probably loosen the panel over time.


You are right - the silver edge looks really good. Understand the need of the thickness.

Need to check if the cart tunnel is not centered, but this takes a while. Will be on business trip the next week, so no time...

Regarding glueing the back plate - I did not think about inserting the CF card yet, but now that you mention it...

#258 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:04 PM

If and when you guys decide to use a mouse with your 1088XEL, I've found the Logitech M-SBF96 is a good quality 400 dpi optical PS/2 mouse that matches very well with the current Mousetari chip firmware. These are readily available as NOS on eBay.

 

attachicon.gifLogitech M-SBF96 black.jpg

M-SBF96 (black)

 

M-SBF96 (beige)

 

 

So hey, at Michael's recommendation I bought one of these mice. Super nice and super cheap (under $7 shipped!) I can't wait to get my board up and running.

 

While I was at it I also picked up 20-something year old refurbished, guaranteed fully working black IBM PS/2 keyboard for a reasonable price. Last week I dug around my garage and found a couple old keyboards of my own but they were from typical gray Winboxen of the era and yellowing pretty badly. Can't be bothered to retrobright a worthless commodity keyboard, especially in the dead of winter. :) 



#259 Firedawg OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:24 PM

I'll bump this thread some as its been quite with everyone building and playing around with their boards.  I have been waiting on my last few components to complete my XEL-CF-II.  I've ordered two  Sophia's with DVI from Jacek which shipped yesterday so I should have them soon.  Been reading and executing various commands on the 1088XEL.  Allowing me to learn more about APT and SDX to strengthen my abilities some in usage of the board and storage capabilities using my SIDE2 and other CF type carts.   I will say that flashjazzcat is amazing with what he has done with various devices to make them all understand each other on this 1088XEL!!!  Well done Sir!    
 
Things to do:
  • 1088XEL main board completed, tested working.
  • Ordered/Shipped Realan H80 case.
  • Ordered/Shipped Sophia Ver C with DVI.
  • Ordered Custom 1088XEL Realan Top with-cart (rev B).
  • Ordered custom 1088XEL Realan rear with CF Slot (rev B).
  • Ordered custom 1088XEL Cart Tunnel Rev D.
  • Need to complete Mouse Select Port boards.
  • Need to complete XEL Status Panel boards.
  • Need to complete the build on XEL-CF-II V1.0 - Waiting on components.

 

A brand new Dell 1708PF 

Dell1708FP-1.jpg



#260 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:32 PM

Outstanding!!!

 

I'm currently more or less at a standstill. I have parts on-order from MacRorie to build an XEL-CF but I'd told him to hold off while he waited for the back-ordered UAVs (which he has since gotten), as well as replacements for the S-video/Composite jacks. But those STILL haven't arrived, so he's shipping out the rest of the stuff for DIY'ers while he awaits those video connectors. When that arrives I'll be finishing up the remaining board headers and jumpers, installing the UAV, and building the XEL-CF.

 

I think this weekend I'll also be ordering a Realan case and parts to make my controller cables. And then in a couple more weeks, while I wait for the case on the literal slow boat from China, it'll be parts for the Mouse Select board, and XEL status board. And so on down the line until I'm "done."

​And then I'll probably buy a Sophia or something, lol.



#261 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:07 PM

Yes it takes great patience while waiting for a Realan case to arrive from China. Same can be said when waiting for CF-IDE44 adapters. But I've yet to have a problem in any of the orders I've made thus far... they all eventually get here  :) .



#262 hunter44102 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:21 PM

OK how do I know which direction to install the resistor networks. For example RN8 measures 1K on the first two pins (side with dot), and 2K on the last two pins.  Do I put the dot side on the squared off hole side of the PCB silk screen?   Thanks!



#263 Firedawg OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:59 PM

OK how do I know which direction to install the resistor networks. For example RN8 measures 1K on the first two pins (side with dot), and 2K on the last two pins.  Do I put the dot side on the squared off hole side of the PCB silk screen?   Thanks!


Yes

#264 hunter44102 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:51 PM

OK two more questions :

 

Do all the IC looking resistor networks go in a socket? 

 

I have one 16 pin socket that has holes instead of square openings. Does any particular chip go in that one? See attached

 

Thanks Firedawg! 

Attached Thumbnails

  • 20180117_194651.jpg


#265 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:54 PM

OK two more questions :

 

Do all the IC looking resistor networks go in a socket? 

 

I have one 16 pin socket that has holes instead of square openings. Does any particular chip go in that one? See attached

 

Thanks Firedawg! 

 

 

There is no benefit in socketing any of the resistor networks. They aren't something that is going to fail, so it's best to solder them directly into the board which will actually improve reliability.

 

The 16 pin precision socket (the one with the round holes) is for the UAV to plug into.



#266 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:44 PM

OK two more questions :

 

Do all the IC looking resistor networks go in a socket? 

 

I have one 16 pin socket that has holes instead of square openings. Does any particular chip go in that one? See attached

 

Thanks Firedawg! 

 

 

 

 

There is no benefit in socketing any of the resistor networks. They aren't something that is going to fail, so it's best to solder them directly into the board which will actually improve reliability.

 

The 16 pin precision socket (the one with the round holes) is for the UAV to plug into.

 

As the Creator himself (mytekcontrols :D ) says, the round hole "precision" socket is for the UAV. 

 

More generally, what I did - since this is the first build of this size I've ever undertaken - is to compare every step I make with the Bill of Materials and then line out the part number on the BOM after I've installed. One of the columns on the left of the BOM is a description of the part. So for instance, the left socket in your photo is what is known as a "dual-wipe socket" (since the metal tabs in the socket touch the pins on the chip on two sides). So if you were trying to build the whole thing without the benefit of this thread, you could compare the socket descriptions for the part numbers and see which one goes where. 

 

Here's a snip from the BOM where I've (sloppily!) highlighted the two part descriptions and part numbers for the different 16-pin sockets. 

 

sockets.PNG

 

Hope this helps! 



#267 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:17 PM

Alright, so here's where I'm at and my query:
 
So far I've installed basically everything but the UAV and video connector (still waiting), plus a number of headers, most of which I gather are auxiliary. To that end, after reading several others' experiences, I removed all the Atari custom ICs and the programmed PIC chips, leaving only the logic chips and SRAM (mostly because I didn't want to keep 'em all straight while I ran a little test, and the SRAM is sitting very firmly down in its socket and it I didn't want to dig it up and out - that's a lot of pins close together! :)
 
Then I tried to plug in the 5V PSU and  ... nothing. No yellow power LED. When I touched a flat screwdriver to pins 1 and 2 of the power headers I saw activity on the Sparkfun board (as noted in Firedawg's test a couple weeks back) but no green LED either.  Very confusing. But hey, no smoke. :)
 
I unplugged the PSU, inspected the back and cleaned up a couple a dodgy solder joints, but didn't find anything major. I didn't find any solder blobs or obvious shorted pins, nor any debris on the board aside from a random cat hair or two (welcome to my world, people!). Repeated the test and still no LEDs, still got activity on the Sparkfun board when I shorted pins 1 and 2 to simulate powering up.
 
Any suggestions? I'm wondering if I installed the LEDs backward, lol.

#268 Firedawg OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:31 PM

DrV make sure your LEDs are not reversed.

Mike

#269 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:39 PM

DrV make sure your LEDs are not reversed.
Mike


That was my first thought, having never installed LEDs before. Dumb n00b question: the longer leg (anode) goes through the square hole on the board, right? That’s how I did it, anyway. Was that backwards?

I’m done working on it for tonight (I get up too early for human kind for work), but another thought is to verify I’m getting voltage across R7 and at the anode of the yellow LED.

#270 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:52 PM

Yep I agree with the notion that perhaps the LED's are backwards. Here's a good reference which shows that the side with the flat (and with the short lead) is the negative. Also another way to tell is to look inside the LED and notice which side has the larger metallic element, with that being the negative side.

 

FPBEG4NFK8FVU92.LARGE.jpg

 

 

1088XEL Power LEDs (square pad = negative)

1088XEL_Power_LEDs.png



#271 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:58 PM

Thanks for that Michael - pretty sure that’s how I installed the LEDs but of course the leads are clipped now so that easy check isn’t available.

I’ll see if I can peer inside the LEDs tomorrow with a bright light (the ones supplied in my kit are pretty opaque). However, I did notice in some of my WIP assembly photos, I didn’t get very deep solder flow all the way through those holes in that entire adjacent row of resistors. I’ll reflow everything over there tomorrow evening and take some voltage measurements around the relevant components with power applied to the board as well.

I hope it something as simple as a bad solder joint in the circuit path. I hate the idea of cleaning out through holes with my crappy solder sucker and this 2mm board. :)

#272 MacRorie OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:15 PM

Thanks for that Michael - pretty sure that’s how I installed the LEDs but of course the leads are clipped now so that easy check isn’t available.

I’ll see if I can peer inside the LEDs tomorrow with a bright light (the ones supplied in my kit are pretty opaque). However, I did notice in some of my WIP assembly photos, I didn’t get very deep solder flow all the way through those holes in that entire adjacent row of resistors. I’ll reflow everything over there tomorrow evening and take some voltage measurements around the relevant components with power applied to the board as well.

I hope it something as simple as a bad solder joint in the circuit path. I hate the idea of cleaning out through holes with my crappy solder sucker and this 2mm board. :)

 

 

DrV,

 

If you have been really putting a lot of solder into the holes (just something I am surmising from your statements here), you might want to see if you have excess solder coming through and grounding out on the component side of the board.  

 

I think that the LEDs are probably reversed as has been said, but this is just something a little esoteric that comes to mind.  You might also want to check to see if you are getting +5 at J22 - J23 or J24.  Even without the latches installed, you can still test it with a voltmeter.

 

You could also see if the LEDs are reversed just by checking for the notch at the bottom of the LED (as Michael said).  Although, I think on those, it is is not so much flat as there is a small notch at the top of the shorter leg.

 

J3 is also a good place to see if voltage is present, just be accurate with your voltmeter leads ;-).  You might also check to see if one of the smaller gate chips is reversed.  Not going to lie, on on of the 9 builds I have done so far, I flipped the HCT00 and the board would power on, flip me the finger, and then power off.  Could not figure it out for a bit!

 

If ALL ELSE fails, give me a call and we can walk through some stuff over the phone. ;-)



#273 Firedawg OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:22 PM

DrV as much as pride myself on soldering that was my issue on my first boot up. After all the trouble shooting a good second over with the soldering iron provided the success I needed to boot up my board. For the green LED to light up you will need the LM555 Timer inserted.

Mike

#274 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:22 PM

DIN-13 RGB Output Update (This information has been revised please go to LINK)

 

I received my ST-to-SCART cable today and ran some tests.

 

This is the cable I got, which is of excellent quality, using some really sweet connectors on both ends.

ST-SCART_Cable.jpg

ATARI ST QUALITY GOLD RGB SCART LEAD / VIDEO CABLE - 2 METRES

 

I'm pretty sure it follows this pin-out.

 

ST-SCART.png

 

Haven't verified if it has inline resistors, but I can vouch for it working very well on my Samsung 730MW SyncMaster TV/Monitor, in either NTSC or PAL.

 

However it does need a jumper from PIN-2 to PIN-9 of the 1088XEL's DIN-13 connector on the bottom side of the board, and does not require the VSYNC Mod that was talked about earlier. In fact it will not work properly with that particular mod in place (you'll need to restore the cut trace connection). Also a few things to note: Some sets (like the Samsung) need to have their region set to Europe in order for the SCART to be seen as a valid input (the language setting should be set to UK for English menus). And due to there not being a 12 VDC source available on the 1088XEL board as there would be on the Atari ST, PIN-8 will be at 3-5 VDC logic thereby resulting in a wide screen monitor defaulting to wide screen mode on power-up, and requiring manually setting to a 4:3 aspect ratio if so desired.

 

So to summarize... with this cable the ONLY mod required on the 1088XEL, is to jumper PIN-2 to PIN-9 on the DIN-13 RGB connector.

 

I'll post a picture tomorrow showing the DIN-13 jumper connection, and a shot of what the picture looks like on my Samsung monitor.



#275 Firedawg OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:17 AM

That was my first thought, having never installed LEDs before. Dumb n00b question: the longer leg (anode) goes through the square hole on the board, right? That’s how I did it, anyway. Was that backwards?

I’m done working on it for tonight (I get up too early for human kind for work), but another thought is to verify I’m getting voltage across R7 and at the anode of the yellow LED.

 

When I got to the LED install I used the multimeter, hence short leg in square pad (-) and long leg round pad (+).  The silkscreen on the PCB (as shown in Michael's post) shows the correct placement (orientation) of the LED.  What through me off slightly was the square pad, which caused me to check for power.  I should have posted that earlier and helped you avoid that confusion.  

 

Mike







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