+MacRorie Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Sorry for the noob question, but if i run this on Windows, select it to save an image as a DOS 2.0, you still need to put it on a 5.25 floppy.... I logically assume this is what needs to be done (duh me) who makes a old school floppy i can run from my laptop / usb? Does this format the floppy as well, or do i need to format first in an Atari machine? So, DrV has it in one. Here's what you need to accomplish this without the 1088XEL already in operation: Another A8 An SIO2SD device OR SIO2PC A physical A8 disk drive Without any one of those, you are stuck. EDIT: The MakeATR program Michael provided is GREAT, but you still need a way to get it from the PC to the A8 and that means some kind of SIO2PC. Even the APE (iMagic? PRO? Some different name. Great software, just do not recall the name) program requires an SIO2PC to connect the 1050 to. There is a VERY round about way to get it on a 3.5" floppy but that requires even more hardware. There USED to be a way to transfer it to a 5.25" pc-formatted floppy but, again, required at least three more things all but the most intrepid of A8 enthusiasts are likely to have). AFTER you have the 1088XEL built, you will be set. You will not even need a physical A8 disk drive . . . assuming you have a spare set of chips. Without a spare set of chips, you will no longer need the SIO2PC because you will have one in the 1088. However, I will get these chips out tomorrow and it will all be a moot point 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_q_atari Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I need help. I soldered in RN5 into the RN1 location on the PCB. I also have RN2 soldered in so its hard to access the other side of the RN1 location. Because these PCB holes are plated all the way through to the other side I think is why I must still have a tiny amount of solder somewhere that my heated solder sucker can't get to. I tried removing the solder as best I can but the part is stuck. Any ideas on what I can do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MacRorie Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Well, I am presuming you are using a braid and flux? At this point, the risk is to the pads, so I would be tempted to clip the RN off and then use a solder puller/sucker to pull the balance of solder and then the pins on it. That does mean you will need a new network. There are other permutations, but that would be my recommendation. I can put a new network in an envelope for you if you opt for that. Maybe there are some other ideas before you have to resort to that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_q_atari Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) Well, I am presuming you are using a braid and flux? At this point, the risk is to the pads, so I would be tempted to clip the RN off and then use a solder puller/sucker to pull the balance of solder and then the pins on it. That does mean you will need a new network. There are other permutations, but that would be my recommendation. I can put a new network in an envelope for you if you opt for that. Maybe there are some other ideas before you have to resort to that. No, I am using a Desoldering Iron with Vacuum Bulb. The problem is RN2 is also in the way, but maybe I can clip that too. Would something like this work to heat the DIP and just flip it out or pull it out with tweezers? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01NCB4SQ7 Edited February 21, 2018 by john_q_atari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MacRorie Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 No, I am using a Desoldering Iron with Vacuum Bulb. The problem is RN2 is also in the way, but maybe I can clip that too. Would something like this work to heat the DIP and just flip it out or pull it out with tweezers? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01NCB4SQ7 Well, don't clip anything you do not need to clip. Hot air stations seem to scorch boards more than they remove things for me. I know some people swear by them so YMMV. I use a desoldering station with a vacuum pump. It costs a bit more, but when you are desoldering Jaguar boards and Ultimate 1MB boards, it comes in handy. For casual stuff, I use my regular iron and a solder-pult, works like a charm on the one or two pulls. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Firedawg Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 I need help. I soldered in RN5 into the RN1 location on the PCB. I also have RN2 soldered in so its hard to access the other side of the RN1 location. Because these PCB holes are plated all the way through to the other side I think is why I must still have a tiny amount of solder somewhere that my heated solder sucker can't get to. I tried removing the solder as best I can but the part is stuck. Any ideas on what I can do? Desoldering takes a bit of patience and skill. So practice makes perfect:-) Sometimes apply fresh solder prior can help with desoldering a joint, and assuring that you have heated the lead of the component sufficiently to allow all the solder to be removed. I use a hot air station primarily on IC, rarely need it on other smaller legged components. Just be careful and not damage your board. If you have some old PCB boards to practice on then do some desoldering on them to get the feel for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I've found a diffused nozzle at a lower temp avoids cooking the pcb with hot air, moving the outlet around aimed at the metal and not the pcb. You have to be quick sometimes. Sometimes you may have to mask off items to keep the heat from blasting on items you don't want to remove or effect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 My advice to remove the part (RN5) soldered into RN1 location is to slide a jeweler’s screwdriver under the part on top of the board, use a regular iron to heat RN5 pin by pin from the bottom and slowly wedge it - gently! - out of the board, then clean out the holes with some fresh solder and flux. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_q_atari Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 My advice to remove the part (RN5) soldered into RN1 location is to slide a jeweler’s screwdriver under the part on top of the board, use a regular iron to heat RN5 pin by pin from the bottom and slowly wedge it - gently! - out of the board, then clean out the holes with some fresh solder and flux. I have tried this in the distant past with mixed results. I have gotten it to work before with lots of patience, but I do worry about the board. I did stop by Fry's this morning and picked me up some MG 8341-10ML flux, 99.9% isopropyl alcohol, and some swabs. May come in handy at some point in the project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_q_atari Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) I've found a diffused nozzle at a lower temp avoids cooking the pcb with hot air, moving the outlet around aimed at the metal and not the pcb. You have to be quick sometimes. Sometimes you may have to mask off items to keep the heat from blasting on items you don't want to remove or effect. I found this video: https://hackaday.com/2016/01/12/desolder-dip-packages-like-a-pro/where they use a Hakko 850 hot air rework station and make it look so easy. I did a little more searching and found the recommendation to use between 300C and 320C (and never more than 350C) with medium air flow (whatever that means) to do the desoldering. I ordered this guy: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MZBT50S and it should arrive tonight. I will dig up a DIP16 I don't need and solder it to a perfboard (PCB board but only has the little copper rings around each hole, not the plated through to the other side vias that the 1088XEL board has) and practice a bit with it first. Which nozzle on the amazon product do you recommend I use? Also, I already removed the solder with a solder sucker, should I add the solder back before I try using the hot air to remove the part? Should I add any flux before I do anything? When I first attempted to remove the part I looped some copper wire under the DIP and made a loop out of it. (to try and achieve a similar result as levering it out gently with a jeweler's screw driver.) I'll probably leave that in place and try to lift out the DIP after heating the leads with the hot air. Any advice on how to mask-off RN2 from the heat? And thank you everyone for your thoughts and help with this! Edited February 21, 2018 by john_q_atari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) like a garden hose the tighter the nozzle and more pressure behind it, the more it will blast debri away. The hot air gun will typically have three variables at play... 1)Nozzle size 2)Air Flow 3) temperature... The temperature is usually spot on once you calibrate and adjust it. The air flow is generally set from 50-80 percent depending on the nozzle. It won't feel like much, but it is.... I've forgotten when changing to a smaller nozzle a time or two, that I needed to re-adjust the air flow to match, blasted a few surface mount devices clean off the pcb and had to put them back.... Practice on some crap cheap Chinese, pennies for a pile of pcb's, once you've got the knack of it move on to the real projects you wish to to. I use kapton tape for protection and retention of things I don't want disturbed, It works for infrared work as well. Edited February 21, 2018 by _The Doctor__ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I found this video: https://hackaday.com/2016/01/12/desolder-dip-packages-like-a-pro/where they use a Hakko 850 hot air rework station and make it look so easy. That's how I'm removing ICs these days and it's much quicker than the other miserable methods. I like the idea of blowing the solder out of the holes as well: I hadn't considered that (I'm still going over them with a pump afterwards while the board's hot). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I keep the work area warmer than usual as well, it helps. stubborn stuff sits over a warmer or IR heat plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Very interesting discussion. As for the resistor network you are wishing to extract, I agree with whoever it was that said to just clip it at is pins (sacrifice the part), and just pull out each pin independently when heating it up. Resistor networks are super cheap, and not worth damaging the board over if you don't have the right tools to extract it properly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_q_atari Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I DID IT!!!!!! YES!!! I used https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MZBT50Sat 310C with the smallest tip, and after 25 or so seconds total, heating each side of the DIP package, I was able to lever the DIP package out with a jeweler's screwdriver underneath. No discoloration to the board and visually the chip and the board look great. I assume if the resistance of RN2 and RN5 that I removed is within spec then I can reuse RN5 no harm no foul? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Good news on the successful surgery john_q_atari . And yes to your question about re-use of the extracted part assuming it passes the resistance check. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_q_atari Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Good news on the successful surgery john_q_atari . And yes to your question about re-use of the extracted part assuming it passes the resistance check. Cool. The resistances all check out. I'll check continuity of the PCB traces against your 1088XEL schematics tomorrow to make sure that is good as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_q_atari Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 That's how I'm removing ICs these days and it's much quicker than the other miserable methods. I like the idea of blowing the solder out of the holes as well: I hadn't considered that (I'm still going over them with a pump afterwards while the board's hot). I didn't try it too long with the hot air pen I just purchased. It seems like however that what I have is too weak to blow out the solder even on its maximum fan setting. Or maybe it will work if the PCB is up to temperature first. I'll play around with it on a spare (non-1088xel) board later. I'll play with a pump too later. Eventually my U1MB will come in (I hope) and I'll have to deal with those headers, and probably clearing the holes as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) I use a diaphragm based hot air gun, the fan based ones suffer from impeller air stall. Diaphragm based hot air are true pressure building pumps, based on the ages old technology of the vacuum de-soldering guns. Tried and true. Edited February 22, 2018 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 On the basis of shitty experiences with a cheap solder pump, I ordered this awhile back and waited the 19 days for it to arrive from Japan. Wow. This thing actually WORKS. And with the silicone tip, you can easily lay it right over a hot iron tip and still get a good seal. Damn. #quality piece of gear. Engineer SS-02 Solder Sucker https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002MJMXD4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_E2RJAbZCNWWQJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentarian Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) On the basis of shitty experiences with a cheap solder pump, I ordered this awhile back and waited the 19 days for it to arrive from Japan. Wow. This thing actually WORKS. And with the silicone tip, you can easily lay it right over a hot iron tip and still get a good seal. Damn. #quality piece of gear. Engineer SS-02 Solder Sucker https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002MJMXD4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_E2RJAbZCNWWQJ Is it any better than a standard solder sucker? Edited February 22, 2018 by Brentarian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 it is. the high temperature soft seal tip is a winner. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Is it any better than a standard solder sucker? Yep. Sadly, I’ve already had to use it. When I was building my Mouse Select board last weekend I was talking to my wife and got distracted. Soldered the momentary switch to the top of the board rather than the bottom. I removed the switch with heat from the iron to each leg, then cleared the holes in a flash with this new widget. Being able to get heat and suction with a good seal from the same side really makes a difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I had no luck blowing solder out of the holes using this wide nozzle, but I'll see if a narrower nozzle focuses the airflow a bit better. I don't think this cheap until can move the necessary litres per second of air, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 Miscellaneous busy work going on here lately since I finished the build, but I did a couple things this week. First off, I remade my Dupont connectors for the display board with smaller wire. I previously used 22 AWG (stranded of course) but after crimping, the wire insulation was just too splayed around the metal crimp to slide into the housings properly - it took a lot of effort and finagling to get the female pins to slide down into the plastic and frankly pissed me off. So I ordered some 28 AWG silicone insulated wire which worked great, but silicone is floppy as hell and makes a lovely spaghetti once you have 8 or 12 wires laying loosely. So last night I used tiny zip ties to bundle up the connections and neaten things. None of this is visible of course, but it bugged me knowing there was a rats nest of wires in there. And tonight, it was (Mis)Adventures With UFLASH! I decided I wanted to play around with the mouse and Jons flashy GUI (my mouse works great, by the way - Missile Command is a whole new game with a mouse!). I dug through Jons site and realized his old GUI demos are for flash solutions OTHER than the U1MB. I searched the forums and found a U1MB .ROM hed posted a couple years back and decided to give it a try. So I fired up UFLASH, shrunk SDX down to 192K, flashed an appropriately-sized version of 4.49, then flashed the GUI .ROM Id found. When I rebooted and enabled the GUI in the settings, I was able to boot to the desktop but my mouse didnt work, whether set (via the Mouse Select board) to either port 1 or port 2. When I disabled the mouse select port and tried a CX-22 Trak-Ball, I was able to get random, mostly down/left movements but nothing useful. So I said screw it and hit F12 to go back to the U1MB BIOS. The system just reset (e.g., SYSTEM RESET was the only key registering). Uh, oh. So I tried F8 + F10. Same thing. Each time, right back to the static GUI display with non-responsive mouse. I powered off the system, waited a moment and powered up. I got the 1088XEL splash screen, then the progress bar and menu, but F10 didnt work to go to setup. F11 would work for the loader, but I couldnt get into the actual U1MB setup. So I put a bootable SpartaDOS 3.2 disk into D1: and tried to boot but the system hung mid-boot at a blue screen. I happened to have a copy of Jons APT Tools .ATR handy so I loaded that into D1: and at least got it to boot. From there, I loaded UFLASH and did a couple things: I re-flashed the U1MB Firmware slot with Jons version from February 5, expanded the SDX slot back up to 256K and flashed a version of 4.49 of the correct size. After that was done, I rebooted again. This time I got to the D1: prompt but I had come kind of configuration error about ATARIDOS.SYS or something that made no sense. I tried to mount my folder of ROM versions to re-flash the full 320K SDX I had been using previously, but SDX wouldnt recognize a mounted folder. So I hit F12 to try to see if I could at least get to the U1MB setup screen. Still didnt work. Frak. Finally I did what I shouldve done when I couldnt F12 to the setup menu to disable the GUI - I pulled out a screwdriver, opened her up and popped the battery on the U1MB for about 20 seconds. After that, I was able to get back to the setup menu to set the date/time again, reset all my colors and profiles, and boot back to SDX. I still got a weird error about ATARIDOS.SYS so I launched UFLASH again, sized SDX back up to the 320K I had been using before, then reflashed 4.49 (the same tweaked version I had made a few weeks ago with the Hidden attribute set for all the FDISK .OVL files). Once that was done, I rebooted once and more and voila, all is back to normal. So I launched UFLASH one last time and this time, saved the entire 512K U1MB flash memory to a file on my hard disk and backed it up just in case. So ... all this is a very long way of asking, is there a version of the GUI that will at least work to let me play with it on the 1088XEL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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