Jump to content

Photo

Why is there not an "AVS" (fpga based console) equivalent for the 2600?


30 replies to this topic

#1 GradualGames OFFLINE  

GradualGames

    Space Invader

  • 38 posts

Posted Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:56 AM

For the NES, an excellent modern clone has been created: https://www.retrousb...?products_id=78

 

Many of you are probably familiar with it...

 

Anyway given that the 2600's popularity is still quite high like the NES I'm really surprised nobody in this scene has created anything similar. I've seen a couple of one-off projects around where someone recreated the system on an FPGA, but I mean actually mass produced and sold it.



#2 swlovinist ONLINE  

swlovinist

    River Patroller

  • 2,193 posts
  • Location:anywhere that is dry

Posted Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:10 AM

The short answer is for many reasons.   1.  Smaller market and financial gamble.  The popularity of the Atari is high for a console that is 40 years old.  It is not nearly as popular as Nintendo.  I think it will eventually happen, but would have to be either reasonably priced or do more than 2600.  



#3 xucaen OFFLINE  

xucaen

    Stargunner

  • 1,261 posts
  • Paying bills...
  • Location:Massachusetts

Posted Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:23 AM

Personally, I would love to see a 5-in-1 like the Retron 5 that plays 2600,7800, 400/800/5200/XEGS, Lynx and Jaguar.



#4 Jinks OFFLINE  

Jinks

    River Patroller

  • 4,383 posts
  • Location:Canada

Posted Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:48 AM

Personally, I would love to see a 5-in-1 like the Retron 5 that plays 2600,7800, 400/800/5200/XEGS, Lynx and Jaguar.

Absolutely!
Sd card with roms. And a portable feature.
I would pay 500 usd for such a thing.

#5 wongojack OFFLINE  

wongojack

    River Patroller

  • 2,981 posts
  • Location:Texas

Posted Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:14 AM

Absolutely!
Sd card with roms. And a portable feature.
I would pay 500 usd for such a thing.

And I would DEFINITELY not. Although a portable with a screen, controller ports, and video out could be interesting.

First of all Retron 5 isn't FPGA, it's just software emulators. I can already emulate all of those systems on my own computer (ya know that device I'd be using to put ROMs on an SD card anyway).

The FPGA piece is interesting because it has the potential to be even more accurate than software, but someone has to make the core and spend time tuning it. Apparently there is a good XE/XL core out there. I've used a 2600 core that was awful, and I've never heard of anyone working on a Jag core. Maybe Kevtris has one.

The point is that these devices have to be really good to get the old timers involved, and I think most of the casual fans in North America have a Flashback by now. The demand would be VERY low anywhere else (unlike the NES).

Another difference from the NES is that they fail at a much higher rate (cart slot, blinking light), so replacement hardware is more desired at this stage.

#6 RamrodHare OFFLINE  

RamrodHare

    Dragonstomper

  • 584 posts
  • Lost in Time.
  • Location:Greeneville TN, USA

Posted Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:01 PM

Original hardware is readily availible for a decent price. It's rather cheap to repair and it has history and nostalgia. You can't replicate that. The one downside to original hardware, IMHO, is the lack of HD output. Still, I'm happy with playing the games the way they were played in 1977.



#7 Sneakyturtleegg ONLINE  

Sneakyturtleegg

    Chopper Commander

  • 236 posts
  • Location:Syracuse, NY

Posted Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:15 PM

There already exists such a thing called the Analogue NT Mini. Officially, it is a FPGA based Nintendo NES. The designer, Kevtris has released free unofficial firmware that runs roms from a SD card and it does not void the factory warranty. The firmware includes "cores" for several pre-NES systems, including A2600 (Supercharger is supported/emulated), A7800, Colecovision, Odyssey 2 (with voice module supported/emulated), Channel F, and many others. Most homebrews and hacks play well on it, and an Intellivision core is likely on it's way too. There was also talk of a core for Atari computers/5200, but not confirmed. It is an amazing system that supports both analogue and digital output. It is worth researching and checking out. For me, it was well worth the money.

#8 wongojack OFFLINE  

wongojack

    River Patroller

  • 2,981 posts
  • Location:Texas

Posted Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:23 PM

And it is $500 without any cart slots except for the NES . . .

 

A pretty good core was already created for the Atari computers.  It runs on the MCC 216.



#9 Keatah ONLINE  

Keatah

    Missile Commander

  • 21,305 posts

Posted Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:10 PM

There's and endless supply of cheap PC hardware and other devices ready to run the already excellent Stella emulator. That and the flashbacks and original hardware.. Tons of options available.

#10 RamrodHare OFFLINE  

RamrodHare

    Dragonstomper

  • 584 posts
  • Lost in Time.
  • Location:Greeneville TN, USA

Posted Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:47 AM

There already exists such a thing called the Analogue NT Mini. 

That's more than a lot of us can afford. Also, even if I could afford it, there are much more important things to spend that kind of money on. I'm not saying it isn't cool, it really is, but it's not $500 cool. 



#11 Sneakyturtleegg ONLINE  

Sneakyturtleegg

    Chopper Commander

  • 236 posts
  • Location:Syracuse, NY

Posted Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:13 PM

That's more than a lot of us can afford. Also, even if I could afford it, there are much more important things to spend that kind of money on. I'm not saying it isn't cool, it really is, but it's not $500 cool. 


I understand $450 is a lot of money. Many people cannot or will not spend that much on a gaming system. With numerous FPGA cores the NT Mini supports along with the thousands of games it can play, an argument can be made that it is one of the best values in retro gaming.

#12 hizzy OFFLINE  

hizzy

    Dragonstomper

  • 889 posts
  • Location:Montreal, QC

Posted Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:33 PM

Someone built an fpga atari already. Metal Jesus has one. 

 



#13 RamrodHare OFFLINE  

RamrodHare

    Dragonstomper

  • 584 posts
  • Lost in Time.
  • Location:Greeneville TN, USA

Posted Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:45 PM

Someone built an fpga atari already. Metal Jesus has one. 

 

 I'd be interested in that one, but my understanding was this was a one of a kind. The builder talked about making more of them, but I don't think he ever got around to it. I'm sure it would have been out of my price range too, but it's one I would have seriously thought about.



#14 Sneakyturtleegg ONLINE  

Sneakyturtleegg

    Chopper Commander

  • 236 posts
  • Location:Syracuse, NY

Posted Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:28 AM

An issue to consider is that "FPGA" and "Inexpensive" usually don't go together at this point in time. If you want inexpensive, that is reserved for the Flashback series or "System on A Chip" consoles. A suggestion would be to keep an eye on the new Super NT system by Analogue. It is a FPGA Super Nintendo developed by Kevtris, the same guy who did the NT Mini. People are hoping it will also receive jail broken firmware and that the cores from the NT Mini will be ported over, including the A2600. This hasn't been confirmed yet though. It is up for pre-order for $189. It only outputs digital video via HDMI, so it is for modern flat screen televisions, not CRT's.

Edited by Sneakyturtleegg, Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:29 AM.


#15 Keatah ONLINE  

Keatah

    Missile Commander

  • 21,305 posts

Posted Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:35 AM

I'd be interested in that one, but my understanding was this was a one of a kind. The builder talked about making more of them, but I don't think he ever got around to it.


Definitely a one-off gig. Don't know how compatible it was either, but it doesn't look like all carts would fit in there. No double enders or sup'a'chargers..

The best way to enjoy VCS is via real hardware or Stella .

#16 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

Kosmic Stardust

    Princess Rescuer

  • 17,653 posts
  • Location:Milky Way Galaxy

Posted Fri Jan 5, 2018 8:49 PM

AVS is out. Super NT is coming. A walkman inspired 2600 exists. Kevtris released jalbreak software for nt mini. Atari fpga is coming. Just play the waiting game with cash in hand. No need for panties in a bunch. It will happen. :grin:



#17 wongojack OFFLINE  

wongojack

    River Patroller

  • 2,981 posts
  • Location:Texas

Posted Fri Jan 5, 2018 9:33 PM

So has anyone on this thread used a 2600 FPGA? How was it? Where is the compatibility info for it? The one I used a few years ago was a POS.

#18 Osgeld OFFLINE  

Osgeld

    Quadrunner

  • 5,641 posts
  • Location:Nashville, TN

Posted Fri Jan 5, 2018 10:49 PM

back to the op, 1/3rd of the 2600 is analog, which is hard to describe in digital logic arrangements 

 

one would need a metric shit ton of them, general use CPU that could be programmed to emulate it  ... oh wait 


Edited by Osgeld, Fri Jan 5, 2018 10:50 PM.


#19 Keatah ONLINE  

Keatah

    Missile Commander

  • 21,305 posts

Posted Fri Jan 5, 2018 11:23 PM

Yes I checked one out and it stunk up the room. "Because FPGA" doesn't automatically mean kick-ass. We have emus and real hardware and that's good enough for me.

#20 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

Kosmic Stardust

    Princess Rescuer

  • 17,653 posts
  • Location:Milky Way Galaxy

Posted Sat Jan 6, 2018 9:21 PM

back to the op, 1/3rd of the 2600 is analog, which is hard to describe in digital logic arrangements 

 

one would need a metric shit ton of them, general use CPU that could be programmed to emulate it  ... oh wait 

Only the a/v generation is truly analog. Issue with an hdmi clone is the framerate. Unlike other consoles, the Atari VCS does not have a stable framerate thus requires a frame buffer. Kevtris slowed the NES/SNES cores by like .1% to accomodate the 60.10Hz framerate of Nintendo hardware. Because Atari games have a varible scanline count that can vary across games and even single ROMs, a framebuffer is required unfortunately in the event a single frame runs under or over 262/312 scanlines. Air Raid is a rather infamous example. For games running less than 262 scanlines, one could simply halt the CPU until the frame is completed, tough this would cause an obnoxious 60Hz stutter in the audio feed. Going over 262 scanlines would cause even bigger issues, because the HDMI frame must start at the specified interval. In this event, the current frame must be duplicated while waiting for the previous frame to finish. This results in a variable lag compared to realtime output of up to16ms. Using framebuffer allows the console to skip or insert frames as nesessary, not an ideal scenario but necessary to maintain a stable output. Virtually all PC emulators do this by default, emulation framebuffer in addition to the hardware framebuffer. The guy responsible for the fpga walkman atari did this, and so did the ultrahdmi n64 guys.



#21 cobracon OFFLINE  

cobracon

    Moonsweeper

  • 288 posts
  • Location:Somewhere in Michigan

Posted Sun Jan 7, 2018 3:58 PM

http://www.mcchome.a...etrogaming.com/



#22 wongojack OFFLINE  

wongojack

    River Patroller

  • 2,981 posts
  • Location:Texas

Posted Sun Jan 7, 2018 8:11 PM

 

Yep, that's the 2600 core that sucks



#23 Kosmic Stardust OFFLINE  

Kosmic Stardust

    Princess Rescuer

  • 17,653 posts
  • Location:Milky Way Galaxy

Posted Sun Jan 7, 2018 10:42 PM

 

Yep, that's the 2600 core that sucks

I was about to ask how accurate the 2600 core was, but you answered for me. The classic comps I have little interest in. Not really a rabbit hole I want to climb down and invest time into.



#24 Keatah ONLINE  

Keatah

    Missile Commander

  • 21,305 posts

Posted Mon Jan 8, 2018 2:38 AM

To answer the OP quickly and succinctly, there is no need for an FPGA-based VCS. We're covered by ebay, Flashbacks, and emulation.

 

Additionally I also feel that if new VCS hardware were to be made today in the form of a full console; there would have to be additional things included. Why? Because! And that's a problem, WHAT to put in, what sort of "add-on" features to incorporate?



#25 jim1174 OFFLINE  

jim1174

    Chopper Commander

  • 225 posts

Posted Mon Jan 8, 2018 4:14 AM

well i think it would be nice to have one console that plays atari,2600, 5200, 7800, xgs ect. The flash backs are nice but they don't have all the games. 






0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users