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Altirra 3.00 released

altirra emulation

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#26 Mclaneinc ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:20 AM

 

Heh. It opens a browser on the host computer ... Fun. :P

 

It does?

 

Apart from enabling B: and booting DOS in BASIC mode am I missing anything to get this to work?



#27 DrVenkman OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:23 AM

It does?
 
Apart from enabling B: and booting DOS in BASIC mode am I missing anything to get this to work?


Run that little BASIC program posted this morning.

#28 DrVenkman OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:41 PM

So this is fun. :)

 

I see Avery has added support for the XEL-CF compact flash adapter (which I don't yet have but plan to build in the coming weeks), but I don't see a way to let Altirra know about the second POKEY, so the XEL1088/U1MB firmware keeps that option greyed out, although interestingly I can still select the second POKEY IRQ setting. 

 

Capture.PNG

 

Capture2.PNG



#29 flashjazzcat OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:09 PM

To get two POKEYs in Altirra, just turn stereo on in the emulator's audio settings. You can't control stereo via U1MB, but then Altirra doesn't emulate U-Switch. ;)

 

2nd POKEY IRQ and VGate settings work because - like the Covox setting in the standard BIOS plugin - there's no way to detect the hardware (and no need, in this case, since all 1088XELs have these features), so the toggles just blindly flip the signals on and off.



#30 phaeron OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:15 PM

Does the new menu structure require less keystrokes (or mouse actions) to navigate it?

 

For single options, typically no, it's the same or more. I also don't have keyboard shortcuts set up for the new dialog yet. The purpose of the dialog is to avoid repeated trips through the menu for multiple options, or the system menu simply getting too large.

 

The menus are also slightly more awkward from the keyboard because I changed the shortcut keys to make room for direct commands. In particular, System now uses Alt+Y instead of Alt+S to free up the latter for the system configuration dialog. Alt+Y is not quite as easy to hit... though that probably only matters for English-like QWERTY keyboards.

 

If you're in a situation where you're hitting a command a lot, you'd need to bind a custom key binding to it. The new dialog is actually based on commands under the hood, so there are a bunch of new commands now that weren't previously bindable -- you can now bind keys to switch between 6502 and 65C816, for instance.


Edited by phaeron, Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:15 PM.


#31 snicklin OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:41 PM

 

Heh. It opens a browser on the host computer ... Fun. :P

 

Be careful!! Games are going to include pop up ads :)



#32 Atari Nut OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:46 PM

Thanks again Avery.  I see under options we can use "Display Effects".  Can you explain this?



#33 phaeron OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:44 AM

 

Be careful!! Games are going to include pop up ads :)

 

Yes, but you have to manually add the B: device. Opt-in intrusive advertising doesn't work. :-D

 

Thanks again Avery.  I see under options we can use "Display Effects".  Can you explain this?

 

It allows use of a .cgp file for using custom shaders, when the D3D9 display path is enabled. The format is the original .cgp format introduced by RetroArch. Some simpler shaders will work as is, though unfortunately format fragmentation and differences between Cg and HLSL make complex shaders tend not to work. (Shading languages are irritatingly divergent.) There are also some Altirra-specific options that I added that aren't documented yet (profiling mode, half float surfaces, shader precompilation). It's viable if someone wants to work on a custom shader setup like enhanced scanlines, but not really polished for general use yet.


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#34 Mclaneinc ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:04 AM

Run that little BASIC program posted this morning.

 

Of course I ran that :)

 

Nothing happens here..



#35 phaeron OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:16 AM

 

Of course I ran that :)

 

Nothing happens here..

 

The URL string needs to be all lowercase, i.e. http://www.google.com/. Though some parts of URLs are case insensitive, the general recommended practice is to treat the entire URL as case sensitive. Altirra checks the URL and rejects anything other than http: or https:.



#36 Mclaneinc ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:53 AM

Ah, thank you Avery, the lowercase was the missing part...

 

All good now...



#37 emkay OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:17 AM

Besides all good progress on the emulation. Will it be possible .... somewhere in time .... to get an accurate POKEY emulation?
This time it's not about timing , it's about the "real" mixing of the voices.
Using linear mixing makes people using the wrong volume levels. Using the non linear mixing in ALTIRRA distorts too much. It also affects the bass generator like some interference to the main resulting orbit, which does not happen on the real thing.

#38 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:57 PM

Besides all good progress on the emulation. Will it be possible .... somewhere in time .... to get an accurate POKEY emulation?
This time it's not about timing , it's about the "real" mixing of the voices.
Using linear mixing makes people using the wrong volume levels. Using the non linear mixing in ALTIRRA distorts too much. It also affects the bass generator like some interference to the main resulting orbit, which does not happen on the real thing.

emkay you said a cool thing!  A+



#39 phaeron OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:09 PM

Besides all good progress on the emulation. Will it be possible .... somewhere in time .... to get an accurate POKEY emulation?
This time it's not about timing , it's about the "real" mixing of the voices.
Using linear mixing makes people using the wrong volume levels. Using the non linear mixing in ALTIRRA distorts too much. It also affects the bass generator like some interference to the main resulting orbit, which does not happen on the real thing.

 

I'd need a sample program to look at, and an audio recording from the hardware used for comparison if possible. It depends on whether the difference is in the analog path coming out of the computer or the TV. If it's from the TV, it'll be more difficult to deal with because of how different TVs can be, just like color settings. Knowing the computer model would be helpful too as if it's an analog effect it may depend on the exact circuit on the motherboard.



#40 Atari Nut OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:43 PM

 

Yes, but you have to manually add the B: device. Opt-in intrusive advertising doesn't work. :-D

 

 

It allows use of a .cgp file for using custom shaders, when the D3D9 display path is enabled. The format is the original .cgp format introduced by RetroArch. Some simpler shaders will work as is, though unfortunately format fragmentation and differences between Cg and HLSL make complex shaders tend not to work. (Shading languages are irritatingly divergent.) There are also some Altirra-specific options that I added that aren't documented yet (profiling mode, half float surfaces, shader precompilation). It's viable if someone wants to work on a custom shader setup like enhanced scanlines, but not really polished for general use yet.

 

Are you aware of a shader that gives the curved screen of a CRT along with it's cubic distortion?



#41 ijor OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:19 PM

This time it's not about timing , it's about the "real" mixing of the voices.
Using linear mixing makes people using the wrong volume levels. Using the non linear mixing in ALTIRRA distorts too much.


I'd need a sample program to look at, and an audio recording from the hardware used for comparison if possible. It depends on whether the difference is in the analog path coming out of the computer or the TV. If it's from the TV, it'll be more difficult to deal with because of how different TVs can be, just like color settings. Knowing the computer model would be helpful too as if it's an analog effect it may depend on the exact circuit on the motherboard.


If we are talking about the mixing of the voices, then that's something purely inside Pokey.

 

One thing is the table from "overall/total" Pokey output to audio DB, another is the matrix from the state of each voice to the Pokey single output. Some years ago somebody here was going to measure the actual voltage levels for each Pokey voice combination, guess it never happened?


Edited by ijor, Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:20 PM.


#42 phaeron OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:16 PM

 

One thing is the table from "overall/total" Pokey output to audio DB, another is the matrix from the state of each voice to the Pokey single output. Some years ago somebody here was going to measure the actual voltage levels for each Pokey voice combination, guess it never happened?

 

 

I've done this, and the current nonlinear mixing table is based on measurements. The problem is that it's only an approximation, as the actual behavior is frequency dependent.



#43 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:25 PM

oh my a dynamic frequency dependent mixing table.... now your going PRO!

w/ compression and bias adjustments built in.... :)

now that would be emulation on a whole 'nother level!


Edited by _The Doctor__, Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:28 PM.


#44 Xuel OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:47 PM

On a related note, would it be possible to normalize the linear and non-linear levels so that typical songs have the same dynamic range in either mode? It seems like non-linear mode makes things much louder overall.



#45 phaeron OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:13 PM

 

Are you aware of a shader that gives the curved screen of a CRT along with it's cubic distortion?

 

Attached is the one I used for testing.

Attached Files



#46 Atari Nut OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:30 PM

 

Attached is the one I used for testing.

 

Awesome.  Thanks!



#47 Mclaneinc ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 1, 2018 5:33 AM

Full on Pokey emulation would be amazing, I'm not an audiophile but the idea of the already excellent sound output being truer in nature would just be icing on the cake..

 

Come one pokey masters, chime in (oh terrible pun) and combine with Avery to get this done..



#48 rdea6 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 1, 2018 9:39 AM

Has PCLINK.SYS always been putting out all caps filenames.  I noticed this and checked the setting and no check mark for lower case like there is in the H: device setting..  I don't remember pclink.sys putting out all caps before 3.10 beta.



#49 pirx OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 1, 2018 11:32 AM

good just became better : ))))

 

Thank you Avery!!!


Edited by pirx, Mon Jan 1, 2018 11:32 AM.


#50 Bryan OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 1, 2018 11:37 AM

 

Be careful!! Games are going to include pop up ads :)

...for dot matrix printers and 300 baud modems!







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