When Kilos Attack

[Pac-Guy 26]

Hello there.

I've never made a game for the Atari 2600. I have no clue how to do basically anything in Visual bBasic. What better way to learn how to use it than to create an extreme Combat game?

 

Well, here's the problem.

My hopes are too high. A fully animated opening cutscene, a pause menu, an arcade mode, a timed game mode, and 16 voice clips for the announcer seems a bit too much for an 8K cartridge on the 2600.

 

My question is, would it work or would I have to do it on the 5200?

Edited January 1, 2018 by Pac-Guy 26

[Pac-Guy 26]

Hello?

 

 

Civilization?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*hears howl*

Doggy?

[JeremiahK]

What kind of programming experience do you have?

 

If you don't think you'll be able to do a full game yet, start with something small and work your way up to bigger things. Some months ago I started on some really simple demos to get my feet wet, and now I am working on my first game.

 

Have you seen the 2600 101 and Collect tutorials? They are for 6502 assembly, not bBasic, but there are bBasic tutorials on that site, as well. I haven't read them, myself, as I knew from the start I wanted to code in pure assembly.

Edited January 2, 2018 by JeremiahK

[+SpiceWare]

Hello? Is this thing on? JeremiahK asked you a question and it's been well over 7 1/2 hours with no response.

You seem to be a little impatient, I imagine a lot of people were recovering from their New Years Eve celebrations, traveling back to their homes from extended holiday vacations, etc....

I've never made a game for the Atari 2600. I have no clue how to do basically anything in Visual bBasic. What better way to learn how to use it than to create an extreme Combat game?

Without knowing your programming experience it's hard to say. I've written a tutorial for writing a 2K game from scratch in assembly which could be helpful. There's extensive comments explaining the code.

My hopes are too high. A fully animated opening cutscene, a pause menu, an arcade mode, a timed game mode, and 16 voice clips for the announcer seems a bit too much for an 8K cartridge on the 2600.

Considering the 5 brief (2-3 word) voice clips in Draconian took 4.5K then yes, your hopes are way too high for an 8K cartridge. Nothing prevents you from using a larger cartridge, most of my 2600 games are 32K and even larger options are available. Once you start to using bankswitching (anything larger than 4K) the cost difference for larger ROMs is negligible(unlike back in the day when ROM was expensive).

 

 

My question is, would it work or would I have to do it on the 5200?

 

A 5200 couldn't do that in 8K either due to how much space would be required for 16 voice samples, so make it for the console that interests you. If you end up doing it for the 2600 then I highly recommend you pick up a Harmony Cart so you can test your code on real hardware.

 

 

[Pac-Guy 26]

What kind of programming experience do you have?

 

If you don't think you'll be able to do a full game yet, start with something small and work your way up to bigger things. Some months ago I started on some really simple demos to get my feet wet, and now I am working on my first game.

 

Have you seen the 2600 101 and Collect tutorials? They are for 6502 assembly, not bBasic, but there are bBasic tutorials on that site, as well. I haven't read them, myself, as I knew from the start I wanted to code in pure assembly.

I can make basic text-based adventure games on a BAT file if that's any good.

 

Hello? Is this thing on? JeremiahK asked you a question and it's been well over 7 1/2 hours with no response.

 

You seem to be a little impatient, I imagine a lot of people were recovering from their New Years Eve celebrations, traveling back to their homes from extended holiday vacations, etc....

 

Without knowing your programming experience it's hard to say. I've written a tutorial for writing a 2K game from scratch in assembly which could be helpful. There's extensive comments explaining the code.

 

Considering the 5 brief (2-3 word) voice clips in Draconian took 4.5K then yes, your hopes are way too high for an 8K cartridge. Nothing prevents you from using a larger cartridge, most of my 2600 games are 32K and even larger options are available. Once you start to using bankswitching (anything larger than 4K) the cost difference for larger ROMs is negligible(unlike back in the day when ROM was expensive).

 

 

 

A 5200 couldn't do that in 8K either due to how much space would be required for 16 voice samples, so make it for the console that interests you. If you end up doing it for the 2600 then I highly recommend you pick up a Harmony Cart so you can test your code on real hardware.

 

 

1. I was asleep when he asked the question and didn't wake up until 11, then I solved my 5x5 and Stomachion.

2. That tutorial could help, thanks.

3. Are you telling me there are cartridges over 8 kilobytes on a system made in freakin' 1976?!

4. Then I'll do it on the good ol' 2600.

 

 

 

Also, the voice samples are:

 

Round 1

Round 2

Round 3

Round 4

Round 5

TANK!...or PLANE!...or whatever!

Red wins!

Blue wins!

You win!

You lose...

Draw!

Congrats, Red!

Congrats, Blue!

CONNNNNGRAAAAATUUUUULAAAAATIOOOOONSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

Game over!

Edited January 2, 2018 by Pac-Guy 26

[JeremiahK]

I can make basic text-based adventure games on a BAT file if that's any good.

 

It might be a rather steep learning curve, then. Atari 2600 programming is very unforgiving.

 

3. Are you telling me there are cartridges over 8 kilobytes on a system made in freakin' 1976?!

 

Yes, but not in 1976, because it would have been way too expensive back then.

 

Those voice samples would probably work out well if you split them up into blocks to save on ROM. For example, instead of having a sample for "red wins!" and a sample for "blue wins!", have samples for "red", "blue", and "wins!", and you could have one sample for "round" with seperate samples for the round numbers, etc.

[+SpiceWare]

1. I was asleep when he asked the question

 

Exactly my point - you only gave people 7 1/2 hours to respond before your "Hello?" bump. Just like you had "real life" to attend to, so does everybody else, and holidays like New Years result in people being offline. You should wait a few days before bumping a topic for lack of response.

 

 

3. Are you telling me there are cartridges over 8 kilobytes on a system made in freakin' 1976?!

 

Yep - while the 2600 only has a 4K addressing space set aside for the cartridges, the use of bankswitching allowed that to be overcome. Bankswitching technology was developed for Chess, but they were able to shrink it down to 4K before they released it so Asteroids ended up being the first 8K 2600 game.

 

They got up to 32K back in the day with Fatal Run. Two 64K homebrews are available, Stella's Stocking and Zippy the Porcupine.

 

If you're looking at making games larger than 32K then be sure to get the Encore version of the Harmony, it goes up to 512K while the original maxes out at 32K.

 

[Pac-Guy 26]

Those voice samples would probably work out well if you split them up into blocks to save on ROM. For example, instead of having a sample for "red wins!" and a sample for "blue wins!", have samples for "red", "blue", and "wins!", and you could have one sample for "round" with seperate samples for the round numbers, etc.

That's a double-edged sword. Sure, it saves a little space, but have you ever played Super Smash Bros. 4?

 

 

Yep - while the 2600 only has a 4K addressing space set aside for the cartridges, the use of bankswitching allowed that to be overcome. Bankswitching technology was developed for Chess, but they were able to shrink it down to 4K before they released it so Asteroids ended up being the first 8K 2600 game.

 

They got up to 32K back in the day with Fatal Run. Two 64K homebrews are available, Stella's Stocking and Zippy the Porcupine.

 

If you're looking at making games larger than 32K then be sure to get the Encore version of the Harmony, it goes up to 512K while the original maxes out at 32K.

Sooooooooooo bankswitching is infinite and I can literally demake Doom on a 2600? Awesome! Wait, no, that's probably too extreme...maybe I should leave it at Super Mario Bros. 3.

Edited January 2, 2018 by Pac-Guy 26

[ZackAttack]

Sooooooooooo bankswitching is infinite and I can literally demake Doom on a 2600? Awesome! Wait, no, that's probably too extreme...maybe I should leave it at Super Mario Bros. 3.

Trading ROM space for performance has its limits, but with other cart tech like using the ARM processor in the harmony encore a FPS on the 2600 is completely feasible. As is smb 3.

[vidak]

Just a little advice regarding netiquette - always treat a response on a forum as if the user could easily have not bothered. Manners always help.

 

I'm starting to get my head around the 2600 so I'm always here to help with debugging.

 

If you're starting from scratch, like I was, if you work every day on coding you will become a medium skilled beginner like me in 6 months.

 

This is going to take a lot of effort, but we're all here to help!