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Sophia rev.C - DVI board


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#1 Simius OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 7, 2018 5:15 AM

This thread is dedicated especially to the rev.C of the Sophia video board - the DVI version.

Nir Dary, on his youtube channel, has recently published a video about the installation of this board:

 

 

The sub-board with the DVI socket you see on the video can be mounted instead of a modulator in the 600/800XL or the 65/130XE models - see attachment

Currently there is a two available output resolution - 1536x960 pixels for monitors with aspect ratio 16:10 and 1280x1024 pixels with aspect ratio 5:4. Other resolution, with aspect ratio 4:3 (1280x960) and 16:9 (1600x900) are also planned. Maybe also 1600x1000 and 1440x900 - both 16:10. In any case the scaling ratio is 4:1, so the playfield is different. For instance - the 1280x1024 resolution covers only normal width (40 characters/320 hi-res pixels) screen. Unfortunately, the resolution can't be switched. Can only be set in the core.

 

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • IMG_0529.JPG
  • IMG_0468.JPG


#2 ndary OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 7, 2018 10:27 AM

i did not mounted mine yet.. i will do it and update my video

 

Nir



#3 DavidMil OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jan 7, 2018 3:39 PM

I'm assuming that the Rev.2A that I got from you a couple of months ago is not upgradeable to this DVI version?  What are you asking of this

of this new board?

 

DavidMil



#4 Simius OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 9, 2018 3:49 PM

You're right. The rev.A or B are not upgradeable to the DVI. The DVI version has other hardware. If you want to order the new board, send me a PM.



#5 Xebec OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:38 AM

What kind of things happen if you put this on a 16:9 monitor but have the 5:4 resolution?

 

If you have the 1280x1024 version -- does it just output with borders around?  or stretch?  does it depend on the monitor?

 

and is there any way to reprogram with your own equipment if you need in the future?

 

And any chance this would work on the Atari 800 original also?  I *think* there's room inside the case to push out the GTIA a bit..


Edited by Xebec, Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:39 AM.


#6 Gunstar OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:11 PM

Why does the sub-board use a DVI socket instead of HDMI? I'm just curious, DVI works too, I have a DVI-HDMI adapter I haven't used in years...



#7 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:22 PM

Why does the sub-board use a DVI socket instead of HDMI? I'm just curious, DVI works too, I have a DVI-HDMI adapter I haven't used in years...

 

HDMI devices require an annual licensing fee plus royalties per unit from the organization that approves and regulates the standards. Not worth it for hobbyists, frankly.

 

https://www.hdmi.org...urer/terms.aspx

 

Plenty of DVI-compatible monitors out there, along with DVI-to-HDMI converters.



#8 MrFish OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:16 PM

...DVI-to-HDMI converters.

 

They're more of an adapter than a converter. There's no signal conversion necessary, that I'm aware of.

 

Beautiful piece of gear, btw. Really nice to see this coming out in DVI; takes away a lot of the hassle with the original version and compared to VBXE.



#9 Gunstar OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:31 PM

 

They're more of an adapter than a converter. There's no signal conversion necessary, that I'm aware of.

 

Beautiful piece of gear, btw. Really nice to see this coming out in DVI; takes away a lot of the hassle with the original version and compared to VBXE.

Right, same signal. DVI sends the same video signal as HDMI, less audio.


Edited by Gunstar, Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:33 PM.


#10 Gunstar OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:34 PM

 

HDMI devices require an annual licensing fee plus royalties per unit from the organization that approves and regulates the standards. Not worth it for hobbyists, frankly.

 

https://www.hdmi.org...urer/terms.aspx

 

Plenty of DVI-compatible monitors out there, along with DVI-to-HDMI converters.

I see. yeah, I already have an adapter as mentioned. 



#11 MrFish OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:53 PM

Right, same signal. DVI sends the same video signal as HDMI, less audio.

 

DVI can carry VGA too, but I'm guessing this is strictly digital?



#12 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:10 PM

Besides I really doubt that you'll find a 4:3 monitor in HDMI, but you'll find plenty in DVI. Yes of course you can force some to a 4:3 aspect ratio, but it just doesn't look right in my book. Plus there are still plenty of these older monitors being sold as NOS in the box.



#13 slx OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:49 AM

 
HDMI devices require an annual licensing fee plus royalties per unit from the organization that approves and regulates the standards. Not worth it for hobbyists, frankly.
 
https://www.hdmi.org...urer/terms.aspx
 
Plenty of DVI-compatible monitors out there, along with DVI-to-HDMI converters.



#14 slx OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:54 AM

 
HDMI devices require an annual licensing fee plus royalties per unit from the organization that approves and regulates the standards. Not worth it for hobbyists, frankly.
 
https://www.hdmi.org...urer/terms.aspx.


Looked it up, it‘s 5000 USD/year plus 1,05 to 1,15 per unit. The latter wouldn‘t hurt but for the former (which is for a maximum of 10000 units/year) would need a lot of buyers to absorb.


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#15 Simius OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:56 AM

What kind of things happen if you put this on a 16:9 monitor but have the 5:4 resolution?

 

If you have the 1280x1024 version -- does it just output with borders around?  or stretch?  does it depend on the monitor?

 

and is there any way to reprogram with your own equipment if you need in the future?

 

And any chance this would work on the Atari 800 original also?  I *think* there's room inside the case to push out the GTIA a bit..

 

It depend on the monitor. It can be the borders around as well as stretch.

AFAIR someone wrote that there is no enough room in Atari 800. See: http://atariage.com/...34#entry3906760

Reprogramming is possible with the aproppriate equipment.



#16 slx OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:59 AM

 
AFAIR someone wrote that there is no enough room in Atari 800.


Maybe you can make some arrangement with tf_hh to include it on the next version of his SCCC as an option.




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#17 Mathy OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:43 AM

Hello guys

 

When does a device become an HDMI device?  Is that when it has an HDMI connector and is ready to be used?  Or if turning a device into an HDMI device would be as easy as soldering in the right parts?

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy



#18 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:48 AM

Hello guys

 

When does a device become an HDMI device?  Is that when it has an HDMI connector and is ready to be used?  Or if turning a device into an HDMI device would be as easy as soldering in the right parts?

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

HDMI devices have hardware encryption capabilities, by definition of the spec (HDCP - High Definition Copy Protection). Connecting an HDMI device to a TV or monitor is not a simple electrical signal connection; there's actually a communication protocol involved between the display and whatever is plugged into the port. If the display doesn't negotiate properly with the thing plugged in, you won't get a signal. 



#19 slx OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:39 PM

 

HDMI devices have hardware encryption capabilities, by definition of the spec (HDCP - High Definition Copy Protection). Connecting an HDMI device to a TV or monitor is not a simple electrical signal connection; there's actually a communication protocol involved between the display and whatever is plugged into the port. If the display doesn't negotiate properly with the thing plugged in, you won't get a signal. 

 

According to the HDMI association link above encryption is optional (and results in a lower licensing fee per unit). Otherwise it wouldn't work to convert unencrypted DVI to HDMI. 



#20 Brentarian OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:54 PM

DisplayPort is another option and I think the licensing costs are much cheaper. Then just use a DP to HDMI cable.

DVI is fine with me since audio isn't going through it anyway. Although, an HDMI/DisplayPort would be great if someone were to add an A/D converter on a Pokey stereo board.

#21 slx OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:02 PM

DisplayPort is another option and I think the licensing costs are much cheaper. Then just use a DP to HDMI cable.

DVI is fine with me since audio isn't going through it anyway. Although, an HDMI/DisplayPort would be great if someone were to add an A/D converter on a Pokey stereo board.

 

According to this you need a license from Apple for Mini-DP but it does not mention fees.

 

Simius, not trying to push you in any direction here. Just following up on the various suggestions. The main trouble with all this probably is that our Ataris will outlast DVI, HDMI and DP... 



#22 Mathy OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:19 PM

Hello Herb, guys

 

Right, same signal. DVI sends the same video signal as HDMI, less audio.

 

HDMI devices have hardware encryption capabilities, by definition of the spec (HDCP - High Definition Copy Protection). Connecting an HDMI device to a TV or monitor is not a simple electrical signal connection; there's actually a communication protocol involved between the display and whatever is plugged into the port. If the display doesn't negotiate properly with the thing plugged in, you won't get a signal. 

 

So DVI uses the same video signal, but HDMI adds communication between devices (like SCART has via it's I2C connection, but probably more complicated) and audio?

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy



#23 Gunstar OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:21 PM

never mind, already answered above.


Edited by Gunstar, Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:23 PM.


#24 gozar OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:26 PM

 

According to this you need a license from Apple for Mini-DP but it does not mention fees.

 

Simius, not trying to push you in any direction here. Just following up on the various suggestions. The main trouble with all this probably is that our Ataris will outlast DVI, HDMI and DP... 

 

Brentarian was talking about DisplayPort, not mini-displayport. We have a few HP laptops and Lenovo desktops with DisplayPort. In fact, I believe the GTX 1070 in my desktop also has DisplayPort. Anyway, while the port is licensed, there isn't any fee involved.

 

Bit for this device, DVI is fine.



#25 towmater OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:09 PM

I surrender. Any help will be appreciated. I had a chance to fit the new DVI version in a 1200xl with zero success. 

I have tried:

 

DVI cable to a 15Khz capable monitor

DVI cable to a recent LCD TV with DVI input

DVI cable to a VGA and a scan convertor

DVI to VGA straight to monitor

DVI to HDMI to two different monitors

DVI to HDMI to VGA just to be thorough

 

All of the above on two different 1200's, swapping both machines and Antics in every attempt.

Both machines work fine when the Antic is put back into the original socket without the Sophia.

The NTSC output on both machines stop working when the Sophia is in place.

 

And for thoroughness, here's the setup:

don't cry for me Sophia





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