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Sophia rev.C - DVI board


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#101 mytek OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 19, 2018 7:50 AM

No.
When you order a Sophia, Simius will program it according to your preferred resolution.


Thanks for the quick response :).

Knowing what resolution you want prior to the purchase isn't always possible, especially for those like myself that bought a few extras for anticipation of future upgrades, some of which I have yet to decide which monitors will be used.

For those of us that already have RevC Sophia's and a USB Blaster, having the cores available for download online is preferred. I have three different ones as it stands that Simius kindly provided through PM's, but as more people purchase these boards this could become both a nuisance for Simius, and a bottleneck for people to match Sophia to monitor changes. However I don't know if Simius wishes to release any of the existing cores publicly, and it's obviously not my place to decide this.

#102 tane OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:50 PM

After my chinese USB Blaster finally arrived, I can confirm that Sophia works with the HDMI Monoprice device at 1536×960, no delay, considering:

  • Only in a 4k TV (not in 1080).
  • The audio with the Monoprice device doesn't work with any input (from the Atari or external).

The audio doesn't work thru the Monoprice at all. Only making a connection from the standard white-red cable to the TV, the audio works. I have realized that the image is so fast with almost zero delay, that even there is a small sync problem with audio-video, I mean the video arrives a bit earlier thru the Sophia-Monoprice. (I haven't tested games, only keyboard sound and self test).

 

Anyone with the Monoprice: Do you have a problem with the audio? My Monoprice doesn't output any audio.



#103 jc13 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:01 PM

Anyone with the Monoprice: Do you have a problem with the audio? My Monoprice doesn't output any audio.

 

 

No problems here with audio on the monoprice, but I did see several reviews on Amazon for the device that were about the audio not working.  Mine is working for the moment, but time will tell.


Edited by jc13, Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:01 PM.


#104 tane OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:52 PM

Besides the Monoprice, there are not many devices that do the job. My test with 3 TV:

  • TV 4k: It looks as expected, original image smaller but with vertical zoom is perfect.
  • TV 1080 Samsung: the TV reports a signal 1600x1200 @60, but it only shows half picture. Conclusion: does not work.
  • TV 1080 Sony: signal not recognized, does not work.

1. For working on 1080 TVs:

There are some devices for downscaling from 4k to 1080, but I haven't found one that works with different input resolution for a 1080 output.

 

2. For a working audio in the HDMI signal:

Maybe my Monoprice is faulty, there are not too many options. Devices with no brand and reviews with problems.

There are others devices that add an audio signal to an existing HDMI, but testing becomes risky for no-brand devices with problems in their reviews.

 

I don't have a good solution, it's required to test several devices.

 

 

All test were made with a 1536×960 core, and instead of testing external devices, the best will be a compatible core for 1080 TVs (and also it will be compatible for 4k TVs). Hopefully Simius could make one being that the TVs are as much as important as the monitors, and with the Monoprice device it's easy to convert the DVI output to HDMI with no lags.


Edited by tane, Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:41 PM.


#105 TheMontezuma OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:41 AM

New latency measurements are available for SOPHIA-DVI:

 

IMG_20180616_125044.jpg

 

BigBen's setup allows to messure the difference in the latency between 2 monitors.

We have used FUNAI-A1506 TV (popular in Germany) as a reference device (connected to Atari's analog video output), because we didn't have any CRT at hand.

We compared the latency with Acer S200HLBbd PC Monitor (1600x900) connected via DVI to SOPHIA.

Acer has 5ms latency according to the technical specification. FUNAI has exactly the same latency (5ms) compared to CRT monitors (messured before).

 

The results of the measurement show exactly the same timing, which means that SOPHIA-DVI does not introduce any additional delay in video processing. It not only provides sharpest picture ever, but it is also damn fast :)

 

IMG_20180616_125526.jpg


Edited by TheMontezuma, Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:45 AM.


#106 BigBen OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:44 PM

SOPHIA-DVI is perfectly programmed without latency. It converts every interlace image and outputs it immediately.

Other signal converters of today do not output the picture until both interlace pictures have been captured.

For example, the Framemeister works. The Funai is one of the few LCD monitors that output each interlace image.

If the interface also works correctly with PAL it is the hardware for me.



#107 Lastic OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:51 AM

So whilst the National football team is playing, I thought let's solder .

 

This time around I didn't scratch up the traces on my 2nd 130XE and succesfully installed the socket for the Sophia Board.

 

IMG_3640.JPG

 

Tested it quickly with GTIA installed and no issues this time.

 

But on this 130XE the 2 chips on top of GTIA are socketed thus the Sophia board cannot hover over them.

 

IMG_3641.JPG

 

I'm guessing I cannot simply reverse the board ?

 

IMG_3642.JPG

 

IMG_3643.JPG

 

Also if somebody can explain why my pictures keep getting rotated, altough the originals are fine :)


Edited by Lastic, Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:53 AM.


#108 DrVenkman ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:59 AM

Can't help you with the rotated photos, but have you tried inserting a second socket inside the first to get more height for the Sophia board? I don't know if that will cause clearance issues with the keyboard.



#109 Lastic OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:24 AM

Unfortunately I don't have a second socket, I tried to simulate the height by putting my broken GTIA plugged into the Sophia board ontop of the socketed GTIA.

But looks like that will be too high for the keyboard.

 

IMG_3644.JPG

 

Guess quickest solution is to de-socket the chip above GTIA ?



#110 Lastic OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:09 AM

So desocketed the chip above GTIA , must have been the scariest 2h30 off my life ,desoldering GTIA, soldering socket, desoldering socketed chip, resoldering chip and finally boot the Atari again only to discover that my Apple Cinema Displays don't work at the correct Hz for the Sophia DVI , LOL.

 

Anyhow this time no 130XE got hurt in the process , just have to find another monitor to be sure that it works, composite still FTW at the moment.



#111 Mathy OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:00 PM

Hello Lastic

 

I've read somewhere that the orientation of the picture is stored in the picture.  Have you tried rotating the picture in Preview?  

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy



#112 Lastic OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:53 AM

Hello Lastic

 

I've read somewhere that the orientation of the picture is stored in the picture.  Have you tried rotating the picture in Preview?  

 

Sincerely

 

Mathy

 

 

Found the solution , if I use my phone in Portrait mode , Preview shows them correctly in Portrait but after uploading them they are rotated.

The last picture was taken in Landscape mode on my phone and is still the correct rotation after uploading.

Just a minor annoyance.



#113 Level42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:32 AM

New latency measurements are available for SOPHIA-DVI:

 

attachicon.gifIMG_20180616_125044.jpg

 

BigBen's setup allows to messure the difference in the latency between 2 monitors.

We have used FUNAI-A1506 TV (popular in Germany) as a reference device (connected to Atari's analog video output), because we didn't have any CRT at hand.

We compared the latency with Acer S200HLBbd PC Monitor (1600x900) connected via DVI to SOPHIA.

Acer has 5ms latency according to the technical specification. FUNAI has exactly the same latency (5ms) compared to CRT monitors (messured before).

 

The results of the measurement show exactly the same timing, which means that SOPHIA-DVI does not introduce any additional delay in video processing. It not only provides sharpest picture ever, but it is also damn fast :)

 

attachicon.gifIMG_20180616_125526.jpg

 

 

Very cool that you measured this. Good to see that Sophia doesn't add any latency....I actually didn't expect it to, to be honest.

The issue is with the screens itself. 5ms...... it can be the difference between life and death in games...... so I stick to CRT.


Edited by Level42, Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:33 AM.


#114 seastalker OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:32 AM

Cores can be flashed with a USB Blaster, just requiring an additional connector that matches the one on the Sophia be crimped on the supplied programming cable.

 

Thanks for that head's up - know where these adapters can be found?



#115 tane OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:19 PM

I just want to say thanks to Simius for the great job with Sophia.

 

Here are some photos running with an LG 4k TV. It looks very good.

 

 

Sophia.jpg

 

Sophia 2.jpg

 

 



#116 Lastic OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:05 AM

Any other PAL users that have the 1536x960 pixels aspect ratio 16:10 setting who can suggest a monitor ?

 

My Apple Cinema Displays won't work , I did test it succesfully on a friend's old Samsung Syncmaster EX2220 to confirm that I didn't screw the soldering.



#117 tane OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 3, 2018 8:59 PM

Hello Atari friends,

 

This is what I see on a Full HD TV 1920×1080:

  • I tested all available options in the TV: basic and advanced, but no way to fix the image.
  • The TV reports an input of 1600×1200, but it seems that is displaying only a quarter of the input. The core is 1536×960.
  • It is clear that the input is bigger than the display, and the TV only shows part of the image.
  • The input resolution is too big for a Full HD TV, and I have only had good results in a 4k TV.

 

 

1.jpg

 

 

2.jpg


Edited by tane, Tue Jul 3, 2018 9:00 PM.


#118 David_P OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 4, 2018 7:30 PM

Clearly, you need a wall of 4 TVs in a 2x2 grid for massive Atari goodness.



#119 seastalker OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 9, 2018 1:05 PM

David_P - That made me laugh out loud. :) Imagine in Pitfall having two dedicated screens for the above ground and hopping scorpions on two 4k tvs below.

 

On a more serious note- I have been testing the Sophia and it is AMAZING! Thank you Simius!! At first I put it on a Dell monitor and it had bad picture due to the screen's limitations.  a 1080p Samsung LED 40inch showed NOTHING.  Then on a newer screen (though not 4k), I got the best Ready screen I've ever seen. I could even toggle the remote's 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratio button and games looked true in 4:3 as remembered, but ALSO looked great in 16:9 almost as if they were programed that way. That says a lot coming from me who is a stickler for proper aspect ratio. Didn't look stretched- it looked scaled even if that wasn't what it was doing.  VERY happy with it AND my UAV for my machine on a CRT.

 

Question: Deciding on Sophia's permanent home- likely a 600XL since mine is NTSC and only has RF out. IF I do that, what are my audio options? I'm open to intrusive options, but if the sound improvement is minimal, anyone have a quick easy RF Out -> Audio Out via RCA or headphone jack plug out option?converter?



#120 JR> OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 9, 2018 1:22 PM

The 600xl motherboard has a spot for the 5-pin DIN connector, and the audio signal is already present at the pin 3 location.  You can just tap it there.  It occupies the same position as the Channel select switch.



#121 seastalker OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 9, 2018 1:35 PM

Looking at a 600xl now... is the 5 pin din the pads just behind the channel switch? I'd love to remove RF switches off everything I can, but often a basic solderer and solder sucker just wont cut it. I'm saving up for a Hakko set so I can soon remove ICs like a pro.



#122 JR> OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 9, 2018 6:11 PM

Looking at a 600xl now... is the 5 pin din the pads just behind the channel switch? I'd love to remove RF switches off everything I can, but often a basic solderer and solder sucker just wont cut it. I'm saving up for a Hakko set so I can soon remove ICs like a pro.

Yep, those are the ones. You can remove the switch and install a DIN connector right there.  I had no problem removing the switch with a hot iron and a solder sucker.



#123 Xebec OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:07 PM

I'm torn on which config to request for Sophia -- I'm in the US, so is it just safest to ask for a '1080' config and hope it scales with any modern tv/monitor thrown at it?  



#124 tane OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:04 PM

Sophia was developed thinking in old monitors with some specific resolutions, and not for TVs. So there is no safe config for TVs, it could or could not work. For me it doesn't work on 1080 TVs. In my opinion for full compatibility in TVs is required a bespoke resolution (the driver inside), but it depends on the developer.


Edited by tane, Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:05 PM.


#125 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:12 PM

1080i/p are usually safe and most 4K tv's here can upscale.... or stretch/fit to screen.... so 1080 to 4k super great chances ....

going it the other direction from 4k down to 1080... not a chance....


Edited by _The Doctor__, Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:14 PM.





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