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#51 StopDrop&Retro OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue May 22, 2018 1:53 PM

The public comments are worth a look, things really have devolved into a circus.

 

https://www.kickstar...gamers/comments



#52 Keatah ONLINE  

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Posted Tue May 22, 2018 2:16 PM

Always best to buy real products in real stores. Or just donate your money to me.



#53 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue May 22, 2018 2:17 PM

I would like to visit this store and sample its merchandise. 



#54 InfoMan OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue May 22, 2018 2:33 PM

Always best to buy real products in real stores. Or just donate your money to me.

 

Yeah, well, if I only bought stuff that way, I wouldn't have this really cool Pebble 2 with HRM on my wrist right now... :)



#55 Keatah ONLINE  

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Posted Tue May 22, 2018 3:34 PM

Amazon and other deluxe online retailers are also valid stores.

#56 InfoMan OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue May 22, 2018 3:53 PM

Yeah, I'm glad I didn't wait for it to get to Amazon.  :)

 

"deluxe online retailers" LOL  ;)



#57 atarifan88 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 23, 2018 5:42 AM

I never understood why people would give their money to a product that hasn't even been made in hopes that it will be made.  There is too great a risk of not getting your money back in what you paid for whether it be a poorly made product or no product at all.  My policy is if you can't pick it up and look at it, then it's not worth the risk...



#58 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 23, 2018 7:19 AM

Yeah, well, if I only bought stuff that way, I wouldn't have this really cool Pebble 2 with HRM on my wrist right now... :)

 

Pebble is like Ouya: a very successful Kickstarter, a decent product for the backers, a nice buyout for the project's leadership ... but kind of a joke/punchline in the general marketplace. 

 

Ouya's store and concept was acquired by Razer, and it's effectively dead.

Pebble was acquired by FitBit, who no longer sells or supports the devices

 

It's cool that you got what you got when you got it. I had a first generation Pebble and wore it with the retro Mac OS face. It was OK.

 

The thing about these hardware platforms is they're only as good as the software ecosystem behind them, and when that dries up, you have a dead-end product. What you get in the first months will be as good as it ever gets. That's fine if that's all you want, but with so many choices from healthier service providers, why pick the underdog just because they have an Atari logo on their thing?



#59 JBerel OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 23, 2018 7:25 AM

I never understood why people would give their money to a product that hasn't even been made in hopes that it will be made.  There is too great a risk of not getting your money back in what you paid for whether it be a poorly made product or no product at all.  My policy is if you can't pick it up and look at it, then it's not worth the risk...

 

I agree completely.

146061.jpg



#60 InfoMan OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 23, 2018 9:05 AM

 

Pebble is like Ouya: a very successful Kickstarter, a decent product for the backers, a nice buyout for the project's leadership ... but kind of a joke/punchline in the general marketplace. 

 

Ouya's store and concept was acquired by Razer, and it's effectively dead.

Pebble was acquired by FitBit, who no longer sells or supports the devices

 

It's cool that you got what you got when you got it. I had a first generation Pebble and wore it with the retro Mac OS face. It was OK.

 

The thing about these hardware platforms is they're only as good as the software ecosystem behind them, and when that dries up, you have a dead-end product. What you get in the first months will be as good as it ever gets. That's fine if that's all you want, but with so many choices from healthier service providers, why pick the underdog just because they have an Atari logo on their thing?

 

My Pebble 2 still works great, and Fitbit has decided to let the community keep things going. Sort of like the Atari Jaguar, actually... which incidentally was also an underdog with the Atari logo. ;)



#61 InfoMan OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 23, 2018 9:08 AM

I never understood why people would give their money to a product that hasn't even been made in hopes that it will be made.  There is too great a risk of not getting your money back in what you paid for whether it be a poorly made product or no product at all.  My policy is if you can't pick it up and look at it, then it's not worth the risk...

 

That's great for you, but also kind of ironic that it was posted here, where not-yet-made products are showing up nearly every day that garner huge preorder lists. :)



#62 atarifan88 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 23, 2018 9:56 AM

 

That's great for you, but also kind of ironic that it was posted here, where not-yet-made products are showing up nearly every day that garner huge preorder lists. :)

 

That's fine.  At least in this particular case, by not participating in a pre-order, you don't get burned.



#63 JBerel OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 23, 2018 11:00 AM

Here's the problem with crowdfunding. You have to look at those things critically and objectively before giving any money. Crowdfunding, as everyone should know, is about providing financial support to a potential product's development through micro capital injections. The term "injection" is used because it's not an investment. You are guaranteed nothing for your money, but that's your choice if you're fully informed about what you are doing and you agree to support it. If any crowdfunding site or project is not 100% clear and consistent about that relationship, you should run for the hills because you are being scammed.

 

More and more you see these projects, and even the entire sites, twisting words and perverting the actual capital injection practice by using marketing lingo and sales strategies to convince easy marks that they are a consumer, or an investor, or that they are "Pre-Ordering" something. This is not at all the case, and it's just plain criminal that crowdfunding sites allow that to go on. The pre-order practice is a sales channel tactic used by publishers or developers that actually are at the stage where they have a product to sell. Publishers can determine how many widgets to print or gizmos to assemble by gauging demand before taking orders for immediate delivery. This allows them to have enough to meet demand without having too much setting around collecting dust. What's bad about pre-orders is that they have a captive audience of pre-paid customers so they can release a product in an unfinished state or missing certain features to that captive audience.  They also avoid the potential for reviews or word of mouth to harm their sales, but ultimately their business success will still be based on the quality of their product. 

 

Now apply the misuse of the pre-order sales tactic to a product before it's even in development stage:

1. You pay money for a product before it's built which you're being told is a "pre-order".

2. A developer then, in theory, makes said product based on the number of capital injections/"customers" they get and the total amount of money they raise.

 

You've just done two things to yourself.

1. Given away your consumer choice, protections, and any decision making ability on your "purchase."

2. Eliminated any ability to compare or contrast the product, assess its relative value, determine its quality, or research it as you would any other purchase.  

 

Even if the project comes through to delivery, you've also given the developer all the cards by:

1. Setting their total or maximum budget for product development.

2. Giving them certainty to establish their profit margin before product costs are even taken into consideration. 

3. Allowing them to dictate the quality, features and schedule for the product's completion to insure their profit margin.

 

All that turns the basic sales transaction of money for goods or services completely upside down by giving the seller their revenue before they establish costs. They now have no incentive to perform quality work. In fact, they have been encouraged to deliver less to insure their profits remain high. It's just like paying a contractor for the entire job before they have even shown up to work or purchase materials. I know some will say that these projects have the best of intentions and really hope to be successful. By agreeing to their (however well intended) "Pre-Order" scam, you have just removed any incentive for them to be successful, and you've virtually assured that the project will fail or that you will be seriously disappointed.

 

IMG_1946-e1423772262435-225x300.jpeg



#64 InfoMan OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 23, 2018 11:34 AM

Well, I guess I got really lucky, because the first 3 projects I "backed" actually came through (mostly).

 

This one was produced, and I got a digital copy, but then they said they were $10,000 short on making the actual DVDs: https://www.kickstar...29743/world-1-1

 

This one delivered, but I could have gotten a similar product at the local dollar store: https://www.kickstar...-business-forev

 

This one was very successful for me, but not all the rewards were created so some got refunds instead: https://www.kickstar...ly-new-3g-ultra

 

Then there were 2 that will probably never come through - Gameband and Shoka Bell.

 

But then this one came through with the product (I got 2 of them) and was so successful that they're doing another campaign to make a rugged version: https://www.kickstar...t-4g-smartphone

 

This one is being run by a friend whose previous product I've been using for years. It's a little behind schedule, but he's making great progress on it and I fully expect it to be completed: https://www.kickstar...s-on-ios-and-an

 

I have to admit, part of the fun in this has been seeing the products go through the process of being created. I guess it's like being an angel investor.

 

On the other hand, with the bad experiences with the Gameband and Shoka Bell, I probably won't be backing another project any time soon.



#65 Flojomojo OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 23, 2018 11:42 AM

I agree with you, crowdfunding is fun if you have the money to spare and believe in the project. I've backed more than a hundred things on Kickstarter and have been delighted by a few of them. Others were just a spur of the moment gag gift type purchase. I went a bit nuts on a few pet software things, pledging more than $100 because I liked the concept ... only to find that it was delayed, not so great, or beat to market by something better. 

 

I've always gone in with my eyes open and a "casino mentality" -- don't gamble with money you're afraid of losing. 

 

I've pretty much stopped for now -- kickstarter fatigue is real. An even stronger pull is remembering how competitive and lively the game space is. A person simply can't play everything that they have access to -- there's too much product. In the case of "game band" and "ataribox" it's more a question the core concept. They're so problematic on their face, so obviously inferior, and so unconvincing in their pitch to add value and pleasure to anyone's lives. I feel like if a chump like ME isn't impressed, why would anyone else be taken in?

 

If everyone stopped buying garbage just because it said "Atari" on it, perhaps we'd get better products from the company. I'd like this quote to be something other than meaningless, empty promises.

 

"We're constantly looking at design, content, and the ethics of what Atari is to provide a gaming experience you deserve."



#66 Keatah ONLINE  

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Posted Wed May 23, 2018 12:38 PM

["We're constantly looking at design, content, and the ethics of what Atari is to provide a gaming experience you deserve."]

 

If everyone stopped buying garbage just because it said "Atari" on it, perhaps we'd get better products from the company. I'd like this quote to be something other than meaningless, empty promises.

 

 

Thing is they're constantly looking, but providing little or nothing. That's right - too many blind faithers willing to spend money at the drop of a hat, any hat.

 

To put it directly, I have more games chock-full of great design, content, ethics, and playability than I could ever want.

 

 

Here's the problem with crowdfunding. You have to look at those things critically and objectively before giving any money. Crowdfunding, as everyone should know, is about providing financial support to a potential product's development through micro capital injections. The term "injection" is used because it's not an investment. You are guaranteed nothing for your money, but that's your choice if you're fully informed about what you are doing and you agree to support it. If any crowdfunding site or project is not 100% clear and consistent about that relationship, you should run for the hills because you are being scammed.

 

More and more you see these projects, and even the entire sites, twisting words and perverting the actual capital injection practice by using marketing lingo and sales strategies to convince easy marks that they are a consumer, or an investor, or that they are "Pre-Ordering" something. This is not at all the case, and it's just plain criminal that crowdfunding sites allow that to go on. The pre-order practice is a sales channel tactic used by publishers or developers that actually are at the stage where they have a product to sell. Publishers can determine how many widgets to print or gizmos to assemble by gauging demand before taking orders for immediate delivery. This allows them to have enough to meet demand without having too much setting around collecting dust. What's bad about pre-orders is that they have a captive audience of pre-paid customers so they can release a product in an unfinished state or missing certain features to that captive audience.  They also avoid the potential for reviews or word of mouth to harm their sales, but ultimately their business success will still be based on the quality of their product. 

 

Now apply the misuse of the pre-order sales tactic to a product before it's even in development stage:

1. You pay money for a product before it's built which you're being told is a "pre-order".

2. A developer then, in theory, makes said product based on the number of capital injections/"customers" they get and the total amount of money they raise.

 

You've just done two things to yourself.

1. Given away your consumer choice, protections, and any decision making ability on your "purchase."

2. Eliminated any ability to compare or contrast the product, assess its relative value, determine its quality, or research it as you would any other purchase.  

 

Even if the project comes through to delivery, you've also given the developer all the cards by:

1. Setting their total or maximum budget for product development.

2. Giving them certainty to establish their profit margin before product costs are even taken into consideration. 

3. Allowing them to dictate the quality, features and schedule for the product's completion to insure their profit margin.

 

All that turns the basic sales transaction of money for goods or services completely upside down by giving the seller their revenue before they establish costs. They now have no incentive to perform quality work. In fact, they have been encouraged to deliver less to insure their profits remain high. It's just like paying a contractor for the entire job before they have even shown up to work or purchase materials. I know some will say that these projects have the best of intentions and really hope to be successful. By agreeing to their (however well intended) "Pre-Order" scam, you have just removed any incentive for them to be successful, and you've virtually assured that the project will fail or that you will be seriously disappointed.

 

Pretty much all that with emphasis.

 

The only time I pre-order is if it's from a reputable established company that I've purchased from in the past. AND if the product is something in a series of products with a repeatable history attached.



#67 PlaysWithWolves ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:22 PM

This thread is linked-to in today's Variety:  Dev Behind Gaming Watch Kickstarter Addresses Concerns (EXCLUSIVE)



#68 JBerel OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:36 PM

As stated previously, no Atari branding or games. Wonder what they do with backers that "preordered" Atari Gamebands.

Straight from Feargal now that his only remaining IP is threatening to cut him off...

"We are currently reviewing this and once we have clarity we will make sure our community are the first to know above all else", he said.

Except.......they weren't the first to know, not by a long shot.

Edited by JBerel, Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:57 PM.


#69 InfoMan OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:19 PM

And it's looking like the "Atari VCS" box is turning out to be just as much of a fraud:

 

http://www.nintendol...ded_vcs_console



#70 Keatah ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:12 PM

And it's looking like the "Atari VCS" box is turning out to be just as much of a fraud:

 

http://www.nintendol...ded_vcs_console

 

Yes it is. It's really great to see the "press" finally pick up on news of all the fakery and BS'ing going on, and not just message forum outgassings.



#71 Keatah ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:15 PM

At the same time people need to understand they're being taken for a ride here. The main purpose of all this ataribox nonsense is to simple "get the atari name out there". So they can sell it and leave as trillionaires. heh!



#72 Stephen OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:43 AM

Finally some people are getting it.  It's not just the ramblings of old grizzly Atari fans speaking out against any new ideas.  Complete vapourware intended to bump a penny stock's value up just enough for the investors to sell at a profit.  Add to this, the parent company is nothing but a patent troll, and maybe you can see why there is so much anger over this.



#73 Curt Vendel OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:21 PM

I'm guessing everyone saw that Gameband was cancelled and no one is getting a refund?

 

 



#74 thetick1 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:31 PM

I'm guessing everyone saw that Gameband was cancelled and no one is getting a refund?

 

 

 

No surprise at all.  Did anyone ever expect it to turn out differently ?  Time for another kickstarter from Atari SA for the money grab to steal money from stupid people.  Kickstarter / Indiegogo and Crowdfund in general should be outlawed as nothing successful ever has come.  The most successful projects may actually ship something but always end up as commercial failures after the Crowdfunding.



#75 thetick1 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:33 PM

At the same time people need to understand they're being taken for a ride here. The main purpose of all this ataribox nonsense is to simple "get the atari name out there". So they can sell it and leave as trillionaires. heh!

 

..well certainly not trillionaires, but better than the average hardworking joe.






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