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Todd Rogers banned from Twin Galaxies and records removed


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#26 keepdreamin OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:01 PM

Guilty until proven innocent is rampant in the New America today whether it be sexual harassment claims or video games. 

 

So is the age of alternative facts, where people like to believe their own narrative in contradiction to all facts and logic.  Such as Todd's supporters.  Ridiculous it had to gain this much attention for TG to do what they were supposed to do by default.



#27 oyamafamily OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:15 PM

I'm glad to see Todd Rogers banned from TG and all his records disqualified, including scores which I even consider REALISTIC, like 999,999 on 2600 Chopper Command by Activision.

 

Check out my Chopper Command video footage - 999,999 points on Game 1, Difficulty B, obtained on Stella Emulator with a keyboard controller.



#28 toptenmaterial OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:22 PM

I'm glad to see Todd Rogers banned from TG and all his records disqualified, including scores which I even consider REALISTIC, like 999,999 on 2600 Chopper Command by Activision.
 
Check out my Chopper Command video footage - 999,999 points on Game 1, Difficulty B, obtained on Stella Emulator with a keyboard controller.


That's sick. Those enemies have blazing speed toward the end. Well done!

#29 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:22 PM

Well you know how it goes these days. Make some noise, get some press. Any press is good press.

 

---

 

Anyways, I'm surprised that Twin Galaxies didn't ever question the huge score discrepancies. Like 1,000,000 for one player, and 50,000 for everyone else that ever made an entry.


Edited by Keatah, Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:30 PM.


#30 Crimefighter OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:33 PM

Galloping Ghost Arcade in conjunction with Aurcade - requires all world records to have video. Hence, invest in a video camera so you have proof if there's ever a dispute.



#31 Benheck OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:46 PM

I did perform more testing, and consulted with Omni to make sure I was entering his data correctly into my system.

 

I couldn't achieve anything better than a 5.57, nor can I disprove a 5.51.

 

But I can confirm that his spreadsheet models correctly predicted all tested behavior on real hardware.



#32 Neo 64 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:51 PM

I did perform more testing, and consulted with Omni to make sure I was entering his data correctly into my system.

 

I couldn't achieve anything better than a 5.57, nor can I disprove a 5.51.

 

But I can confirm that his spreadsheet models correctly predicted all tested behavior on real hardware.

You forgot the ((HUMAN ELEMENT))



#33 keepdreamin OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:56 PM

, nor can I disprove a 5.51.

 

 

Hey, you can't disprove that the Care Bears aren't dimension hopping deities either.  They might be out there. Such is life. 



#34 almightytodd ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:36 PM

I will have no other Todds before me, for I am a jealous Todd...



#35 CapitanClassic OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:09 PM

 
I think the reason why is that so many of his scores were highly suspect. A good example was Fathom. His record was 1,110,500. Second place? 142

Ive said it before, but I will say it again. Fathom for the 2600 ends after 7 levels (or maybe its 8). After freeing the Mermaid on that level, the game displays Imagics address and you can no longer continue. It is impossible to achieve 100,000 on this game, let alone a million as each level you have a limited number of positive points that you can collect and your score is continuously decreasing except on the Dolphin/Seagull transition screen.

#36 Inky OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:10 PM

So what happens if someone manages to record a verifiable 5.51 tomorrow? I don't believe it possible, but what if?

Then they get the record because it was verified.



#37 toptenmaterial OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:20 PM

I got the impression, at least from King of Kong, that TG is a little on the douchie side. I don't see why a verifiable score from there is any more important than AA.

#38 Shawn OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:29 AM

This is great news.



#39 Inky OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:51 AM

Todd released a statement on Facebook this morning...

 

 

 

In light of recent events regarding my standing with Twin Galaxies, I have been asked by many to address the situation. As the saga has seemingly reached its conclusion, I thought now would be a good time to shed some light on a few topics and give my thoughts on the matter.
As many of you know, Twin Galaxies has made the decision to ban me from their database. Although I disagree with their decision, I must applaud them for their strong stance on the matter of cheating. For too long, gamers have tried to cheat the system and achieve recognition for scores they did not actually make. This is something I came across numerous times while serving as a Twin Galaxies referee. I have always maintained that stronger testing and punishment was needed for those trying to manipulate the system, perhaps even requiring live performances on more questionable scores. Simply put, even videotapes and DVDs are not enough in this technological age where it is becoming increasingly easy to cheat. While I do maintain that Twin Galaxies is wrong in my particular case, if the investigation into my score(s), and subsequent banning, can serve as a catalyst to clean the database of questionable scores and facilitate methods to catch future cheaters, this is a positive thing. In my opinion, it will not stop cheaters from cheating. There is an inherent problem with the system all together; so long as human beings are involved with the input of the data, true scores will come across as false and and false scores will come across as true.
On the topic of Dragster, there is much that needs to be said. While I will try to address as much of it as I can in my statement today, I doubt I will be able to cover it all, or say enough to appease inquiring minds. I will do my best to cover some of the most talked about topics. Perhaps the most heated debates stem from how my score was verified. As was the accepted means of verification back then, my first score was submitted via photograph, while the next two times were achieved in front of Activision staff, and at a live event respectively. While many question the validity of my claims of achieving 5:51 on Dragster in front of Activision's staff, and point to the fact that David Crane said "his position was very simple the high scores published by Activision in the 1980s were authenticated using the established methods at the time, by the governing authority at the time. I have no doubts, then or now, that Todd Rogers achieved the scores attributed to him", I ask this: Had I not achieved the score in their presence, why would Activision have acknowledged me beating their "perfect" run, and hired me to demonstrate their games? What also seems to get overlooked is that I was only sixteen, and really had nothing to gain by fabricating an unobtainable score. There was no Twin Galaxies database back then when I first started submitting photos to Activision, and the only real merit one could achieve was getting a patch and your name in Activision's news letter. I had already done this with slower times. While this score ultimately led to me working with Activision and other gaming companies, there was no way of knowing that would happen, as many like to theorize. It is also assumed by many that all three times I achieved my score it was on my own hardware, and that it was somehow modded. This is completely untrue. The idea that I would be able to bring my own console and game to Activision, and demand to only play on my system, is preposterous. Any consoles, games, joysticks, etc. that I played on, were always provided by the company or event where I was playing. In fact, one thing that is constantly overlooked is that many of my more "controversial" scores were made at live events, using the developers hardware, and were recognized by the developers as a high score. There were no tapes, polaroids, or Twin Galaxies submissions back then; only live gameplay, which has always been my preferred method. This brings me to my next Dragster topic: "Fake" certificates. What many fail to realize is that I was not part of the birth of Twin Galaxies. It wasn't until the early 1999 that I even became aware of their existence other then being published in an old issue of Joystik magazine for Gorf. Back then, I was very enthusiastic about the gaming community, and thought it would be a nice touch to recognize players achievements by reviving a classic method popularized by Activision. While my design was based on Activison's original design, it was not an exact copy and was not on the same paper as the originals. I am unaware if any of my designs have survived over the years, but telling them apart from Activison's originals would not have been difficult. Somewhere along the lines however, my concept was misconstrued as me making exact, perfect replicas of the originals. This led to the theory that if I could make exact copies, that perhaps my own certificates were forged as well. I'm uncertain as to how this theory snowballed as it did, but it is completely false.
Many have asked my opinion on Eric Koziel and the results of his findings. I have refrained from speaking about him for the most part, which I will explain shortly, but I thought this would be a good time to clear up any assumptions that have been made. My opinion on Eric, himself, is a mixed one. On one hand, I respect what he represents - change in how we address controversial scores. The ability to fact check based on data is something I hope to see grow. Everyone should be able to compete on a level playing field, and the results should be based on skill alone. I do, however, question Eric Koziel's motives, and how he went about his efforts. Not once was there any attempt on his part to contact me or question me on my methods. Instead, he chose to use bits and pieces of interviews I have done on my shifting patterns, and use them as factual evidence of how I play, without ever actually seeing me play in person. I am not a hard person to reach - my phone number, email, and facebook are easy to obtain, and I don't recall anyone having trouble contacting me. In fact, Eric did find my facebook page and chose to engage my friends, on my wall, yet still failed to address me directly. To me, it's an act of cowardice when you choose to call someone out but refuse to speak to them man to man. If you feel I cheated, or think I'm a fraud, say it to my face. We may disagree, but at least I can respect someone who hears me out before passing judgement. In my opinion, he has only gone about this matter the way he has to draw interest in his book, which he has shamelessly promoted throughout his argument, and I will not engage him in his attempts to draw interest in it.
In closing, I would like to address why I have not previously discussed this topic directly. What many may or may not know, is there were plans for me to play live and attempt to replicate my Dragster record. At first I embraced the challenge, and looked forward to proving my score legitimate. I remained silent on the matter, as I believed that in this situation actions would speak louder than words. I began practicing during this time to get my timing right, and though a 5:51 was not achieved I was feeling good about my chances of tying my score. What made me sour on doing such an event, and ultimately cancel it, was the reaction from the gaming community. Insults began littering my personal facebook page. Degrading remarks filled my PM's and emails. Even my family was being harassed for being associated with me. I began to wonder who I really was trying to satisfy with my record attempt. If you wish to call me a cheat, a fraud, etc., you have every right to until you see evidence that says otherwise. Seeing is believing. But when the remarks become personal, and my friends and family are dragged into the mire, it is no longer about gaming. People are wishing ill will upon me and my family over what? A high score on a video game? If that is what the gaming community has become, then despite my love for video games and all of my contributions and experience to help the scene grow by playing live at events and supporting the community, it is not worth jeopardizing my personal life and family outside of gaming.
Though gamers such as Rudy Ferretti and Roy Schildt may have given some people the idea that high scores are all that matters, gaming is not life. Gaming is meant to be fun. The competitive aspect of it should be used to bring people together in pursuit of a common goal, not tear down friendships and communities. Who I am, and what I have done with my life will not be defined by a score that I produced live, that others do not believe because they were not there. For those who have shown me unwavering support over the last few months, thank you. I will continue play games I enjoy and have fun doing so. After all, isn't that what gaming is about?

Edited by Inky, Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:52 AM.


#40 Atariboy OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:14 AM

There has long been serious questions about the validity of his score. If he could back it up, he'd of done it years ago. So I don't buy the part about him planning a live event to prove this score in public, that he cancelled because of some Facebook postings in recent weeks. 


Edited by Atariboy, Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:14 AM.


#41 HalHawkins OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:02 AM

Todd released a statement on Facebook this morning...

 

 

 

So basically he's not going to prove us wrong because he was being triggered by detractors? Does he need a safe space to perform those feats?


Edited by HalHawkins, Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:02 AM.


#42 Csonicgo OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:16 AM

Guilty until proven innocent is rampant in the New America today whether it be sexual harassment claims or video games. 

Ignoring the weirdness of comparing these two things, There's more than enough proof of faked scores other than Dragster. That's why this is such a shocking thing - did anyone notice how off-the-wall some of his supposed "Hi-Scores" were? All of his records are "oh yeah? well i got a zillion and six!!"

 



#43 Dauber OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:24 AM

My big question is...if someone would intentionally fake a video game score...why on earth would it be a chintzy who-cares game like Dragster??

#44 keepdreamin OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:36 AM

My big question is...if someone would intentionally fake a video game score...why on earth would it be a chintzy who-cares game like Dragster??

 

Just one of a ton he faked.  Guy was going for volume 



#45 Northcoastgamer OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:38 AM

Sadly this is the state of affairs nowadays in the good ole US of A. Deflect, spin, detract,twist or rearrange the facts/truth. I've been a gamer since the 70's. I have numerous polaroids from the 80's for numerous games. I also have video proof of my Tunnel Runner kill screen session from over 32 years ago. If I had achieved a 5.51 on Dragster you can bet your ass I would have taken numerous pictures of that achievement and most certainly had one blown up to poster sized and framed on my wall to look at everyday. Myself and many other TRUE old time gamer's have questioned many of Todd's scores for years. I have always considered him a "game manipulator". As for TG they have been a joke since day 1. How the mighty have fallen. Fact's are getting the best of him.



#46 Inky OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:44 AM

My big question is...if someone would intentionally fake a video game score...why on earth would it be a chintzy who-cares game like Dragster??

What was your advice to me about getting a world record?



I'm guessing the reason is because who would think to challenge a high score on a relatively obscure title.



#47 Csonicgo OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:48 AM

My big question is...if someone would intentionally fake a video game score...why on earth would it be a chintzy who-cares game like Dragster??

The irony of all this is that Dragster is now more popular than it ever was because of all this. Expect a lot of people who are going to try to get that "5.51", data be damned.



#48 Dauber OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:53 AM

What was your advice to me about getting a world record?

I'm guessing the reason is because who would think to challenge a high score on a relatively obscure title.


Thing is....it's not obscure. At all. Never was. Just kind of...chintzy.

#49 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:55 AM

And it was faked a while ago, wasn't it? A game of the times.



#50 BassGuitari OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:06 AM

Todd Rogers creeped on my wife when she was in college about 15 years ago. F@#$ that guy.






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