Atari's founder won't receive a major industry award

[HoshiChiri]

I have three main thoughts on this:

 

1- I agree that it's ridiculous to pull an award for a vague 'he was kind of msogynistic' when it was the 70s and everybody was. Specific claims should come out first.

 

2- I understand why they did it. As stupid as it is, many people today (especially young gamers) don't really seem to have a concept of nuance. Either it's always ok, or it's never ok. Therefore, if a guy who may have treated women poorly in the past gets an award, it's like saying 'I approve of this behavior in any situation at any time.' Pulling the award, if nothing else, drives home that one must treat women with respect, or there will be consequences for you- even if it takes years.

 

3- Man, is Bushnell's response classy! Seriously, if more guys who caught flak for their philandering could handle it like that, we'd be a lot farther past all this crap by now.

[Inky]

I'm getting raked over the coals on facebook for defending him. Ugh

[Alp]

"Major Industry Award"

 

Well, the GDC just lost any integrity they may have had, so not anymore, it isn't!

 

We can make our own game conference... with blackjack, and hookers!

[Inky]

"Major Industry Award"

 

Well, the GDC just lost any integrity they may have had, so not anymore, it isn't!

 

We can make our own game conference... with blackjack, and hookers!

 

Soo... Just like Atari in the 70's?

 

[+Random Terrain]

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the hot tub.

[Greg2600]

https://twitter.com/lonireeder/status/958922473101078529

 

Loni Reeder‏ @lonireeder

Replying to @karenallen @tjrtech @NolanBushnell

I worked there. I know Nolan personally. I cofounded a company with him years later. I was treated fairly, and paid well. I have fellow Atari women friends who also know Nolan. None of us were offended by him, or code names, or T-shirt’s. This is definitely NOT a ‘Me Too’ issue.

11:38 PM - 31 Jan 2018

Edited February 1, 2018 by Greg2600

[Bakasama]

It wasn't that long ago that the socially liberal types were the 60s free-love types that created the Atari culture in the first place.

 

I don't think these modern "liberals" are liberal at all. They are more like the "church lady" stereotype except without the church

There's a term for them, "Regressive Left"

[The Usotsuki]

They're actually more like the far right than they'll care to admit. I've said it before - politics is not like a straight line, it's more like a Möbius strip folding back on itself. And meanwhile, moderates and centrists everywhere are facepalming.

[Inky]

Both the left and right have their own forms of "puritanism."

#IStandWithNolan

[zzip]

Same here. This is the kind of thing that really turns people off from liberalism, and it is *not* liberalism. At all. It's just prudishness and revisionist history. Also, a lot of people quick to outrage, which seems to be a bipartisan affliction these days.

I blame social media, especially Twitter. It's created a daily outrage machine.

 

Companies/Organizations really need to learn to ignore the Twitter mobs. They will have have forgotten about today's controversy by Friday because they will be outraged by something else then. Most of the outraged people probably aren't even your customers, they are people who've piled-on. You cave to them, you risk upsetting your actual customers.

 

 

Progressive/leftist and liberal are the same thing.

I would disagree with this. I think "leftist" and "liberal" are different things. I used to assume they were the same but back then I had trouble understanding the left because they seemed so contradictory. One day someone explained to me that a certain group of people were leftists not liberals and it started to click.

 

I would explain the difference like this:

 

A liberal wants to improve the system to make it more fair to more people.

A leftist thinks the system is rotten to the core and wants to subvert and overturn it.

[zzip]

I have three main thoughts on this:

 

1- I agree that it's ridiculous to pull an award for a vague 'he was kind of msogynistic' when it was the 70s and everybody was. Specific claims should come out first.

 

2- I understand why they did it. As stupid as it is, many people today (especially young gamers) don't really seem to have a concept of nuance. Either it's always ok, or it's never ok. Therefore, if a guy who may have treated women poorly in the past gets an award, it's like saying 'I approve of this behavior in any situation at any time.' Pulling the award, if nothing else, drives home that one must treat women with respect, or there will be consequences for you- even if it takes years.

I mean it's the "Videogame Pioneer Award" not the "Videogame sainthood award". If you can't give your pioneer award to one of the biggest pioneers in the industry, then what good is your award?

[Omega-TI]

I cannot stand sanctimonious, politically correct zealots throwing stones, causing havoc over minutiae from decades past. I wonder, what 'socially off' things (by current standards) they said or did decades ago in their youth? If the offence was not a crime, how would the accusers like their personal 'indiscretions' being dug up decades later to be held over their heads for the rest of their lives to bar them from advancement or recognition in anything they have done? It's hypocritical to deny others, when they too are probably guilty of putting their foot in their mouth at least once in their lives.

[Greg2600]

What's really ironic is that Nolan wasn't actually a developer!

[zzip]

I cannot stand sanctimonious, politically correct zealots throwing stones, causing havoc over minutiae from decades past. I wonder, what 'socially off' things (by current standards) they said or did decades ago in their youth? If the offence was not a crime, how would the accusers like their personal 'indiscretions' being dug up decades later to be held over their heads for the rest of their lives to bar them from advancement or recognition in anything they have done? It's hypocritical to deny others, when they too are probably guilty of putting their foot in their mouth at least once in their lives.

For some of them, it's just about power.

 

Brianna Wu, who seems to have started the campaign against Nolan is a known sh** stirrer in gaming and seems to do things for attention.

[Greg2600]

The GDC and current gaming in No. California have had a string of sexual harassment issues lately. They wish to conflate that culture with the one at Atari and other tech companies decades ago. They wish to blame Bushnell as if he's the source of it all. When in reality, as testified by the actual employees, there's really no direct or indirect linkage. This is not about Nolan, it's about GDC and it's issues. Nolan unfortunately was dragged into the muck through no fault of his own.

[Flojomojo]

Me, just now ...

 

reads the Ars story

 

contemplates posting this in the "That Ataribox" thread with something trollishly snarky about the legacy of Atari, it's stock price, how this doesn't matter in France

 

thinks better of it, tries to be the better person

 

searches the forum for "Nolan"

 

finds this thread

 

reads the usual "the left is worse than the right," "i hate political correctness" and so on

 

posts this status update

 

withdraws from the conversation, fully expecting it to be locked by day's end

[+nanochess]

What they are looking for? A retro-active chastity age? You've a prize but let us check your mind dirtiness? Ouch, no Nobel.

 

What's next? Police pursuing teens because they said "she's hot"?

 

I think this is sad and stupid.

[Greg2600]

Atari's legacy speaks for itself. The employees loved working there, and they've all been so gracious to the aficionados like ourselves in the decades since. This community really has nothing in common with GDC and the current game making world. Many of us don't even play newer games. However, does the US Military cease to honor soldiers who fought in wars for our country pre-integration? No, of course not.

[+Tarzilla]

I blame social media, especially Twitter. It's created a daily outrage machine.

 

Companies/Organizations really need to learn to ignore the Twitter mobs. They will have have forgotten about today's controversy by Friday because they will be outraged by something else then. Most of the outraged people probably aren't even your customers, they are people who've piled-on. You cave to them, you risk upsetting your actual customers.

 

 

Daily Outrage Machine describes it perfectly, it seems from the other things I've read that the people outraged were no part of, or even alive, during the 70s tech boom and are outraged by a few sentences they may have read. The number of females that were at Atari that have responded in support of Nolan speaks volumes, in my opinion.

 

This outrage at Nolan serves no purpose but to dilute the genuine issues brought up by the #metoo movement. These same DOM's would probably scream "sexual assault" if someone looked at them funny or asked then if they wanted to go for coffee.

[zzip]

I gotta ask, having been living out in Eastern Europe for almost 5 years now...are things really that insane back home in the US?? I'm seriously scared to go back. There's no way I would want to live in a place where society has really gone that far out insane.

I almost never run into these kinds of people in real life. It's mostly a social media phenomena.

 

So I wouldn't say everyday society has gone insane, just the internet

[Tanooki]

What's next? Police pursuing teens because they said "she's hot"?

 

I think this is sad and stupid.

They just passed a law for that against men in France. So why not do that here too? Or perhaps well juat tag anyone old enough for Medicare as racists because back in their era the term negro was acceptable. Might as well.

[HoshiChiri]

I mean it's the "Videogame Pioneer Award" not the "Videogame sainthood award". If you can't give your pioneer award to one of the biggest pioneers in the industry, then what good is your award?

 

I kind of wonder if that's why he was able to be so classy in his statement on the situation- I mean, if he puts no value in the award, he's not gonna care if he wins it or not. He's probably fine with being, y'know, successful at business and all.

 

It's like the time me, my fiancé, and 2 friends went to a water park. About lunch time, one went for a quick last run down a slide, one went to the restroom, I went to get food, and my fiancé stayed at the table with the bags. When I got back, he told me some guy was giving him a "ha ha, loser got stuck watching her purse" look. And he just thought, "You're with your parents. I'm with 3 girls in swimwear. Who's the loser?"

[+wongojack]

I found the comments on the Atari Museum Facebook page from former female Atari Employees very enlightening: https://www.facebook.com/groups/105586892805903/

 

I would just link it, but I can't figure out how to link directly to a reply to another post.

 

[[snip]]

 

Loni Reeder So.... let’s take a step back and look at the overall situation:

It started with a 38 year old disgruntled ‘uber feminist’ woman/game designer from Massachusetts running for Congress who had a less than stellar experience in the predominantly male-dominated video game space, resulting in what came to be known as ‘GamerGate.’

Using the ‘MeToo’ movement and a moment in time for which she had no firsthand knowledge............

And with zero complaints lodged against Nolan or complaints about the work culture by employees working at Atari during that time...........

And based on archival newspaper and magazine interviews with Nolan and others chatting about a work environment, time and culture that existed 40 years ago.........

A work environment everyone - men and women - happily worked in TOGETHER... and partied in TOGETHER (or didn’t party in - there was no pressure and no judgement).... an environment that has resulted in decades-long friendships, marriages, ‘little Atarians,’ business partnerships and frequent reunions......... providing us with amazing memories, and for most of us, spending the rest of our work careers attempting to replicate the MAGIC of the Camelot that we were lucky enough to work at.

By arming herself with a topical movement and being personally disgruntled and ‘offended’ by an environment existing 40 years ago which she played no part in - an environment she had ZERO first hand knowledge of.......... and ‘intimating’ those of us who worked with or around Nolan, Al (Alcorn), the Gene’s (Lipkin and Landrum), Joe (Keenan), Steve (Bristow) and the rest of ‘Mahogany Row’ had been sexually assaulted, abused and disrespected by (in her estimation) abominations to the male species.......

Yes, based on her political aspirations, personal assumptions and libelous accusations against a man where no complaints have been raised or filed - she made a big, unfounded noise against Nolan - and the ‘Pioneer Award’ honor was withdrawn.

Atari was a large corporation with many facilities... but I worked in Corporate Headquarters, interfaced with every department in the company as a part of Communications, Security and Facilities groups....... and in being ‘adopted’ by the Coin-op and Industrial Design groups, I also spent a great deal of time in the Engineering (‘hot tub’) building, which would be the two locations where most of the fun and craziness occurred.

From my vantage point and having a first-person perspective of this time and the Atari environment, what has been done to Nolan is falsely mischaracterizing him for a lifestyle that did no harm or wrong to anyone.

Nolan created a company environment which opened the doors to many women into a field where they were never included before: HI TECH. Nolan never discriminated on any level and gave everyone a chance to prove on their own merits that they could be a part of Atari. From soldering boards to building arcade cabinets, drawing schematics and artwork to working on the assembly line.

For me personally, Nolan was the final word in my being hired at Atari - my first full-time job after college... he continued his belief in me years later, when we cofounded uWink in Los Angeles where I became an ‘equally compensated’ Vice President.

Nolan never profiled a person by their gender as to whether or not they were a fit for the job. He based his decision on the person’s skill, ability and passion for the job - because of that belief, we always rose to the occasion! We were a bonded teamship... AND A FAMILY.

Atari also saw a woman - the amazing Carol Shaw - go on to fame!

For me, and I’m sure for other women who will weigh in....... while this ‘feminazi congresswoman wanna-be’ may believe she is doing ‘Atari womankind’ a favor, in reality, she has done us a disservice by creating victims where there were none.

Personally, I am extremely angered by her words and conduct in this matter... not just for Nolan, but for the women of Atari - all of us!

We ALL were, and remain to this day extremely strong and intelligent women...... and there isn’t any ‘man’ who would dare take advantage of us (not if they intended to procreate in the future!).

My other anger is the callous and unnecessary hurt I’m sure this matter has inflicted on Nancy and their kids and grandkids.

Finally... by not doing their due diligence before terminating the honor, the GDC did a disservice to Nolan, to my fellow Atarians - and to the truth.

Nolan was extremely gracious in this matter via his tweet… Hopefully the GDC will right this misstep on their part at some point in the future.

 

 

[+Stephen]

It's a combination of being in the social media era, and for some reason the younger generation has turned out to be rather prudish and puritan-like

Not enough of them have had good old fashioned ass whoopings when growing up.

[Omega-TI]

I feel sorry for the younger generation coming up now. Even now some guys are afraid to even talk to a woman out of fear of being accused of 'coming on to them'. With some women feeling 'uncomfortable' over any perceived action, guys will avoid them like the plague. The end result may be that some guys and gals will live lonely lives and possibly not even get married. It may seem extreme, but with people getting so touchy over anything these days who knows.