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How many original releases are there?


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#26 m-crew OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 8, 2018 8:33 PM

Hmm...
-1 Pac-Man
-1 Triple Challenge
+2 Triple Action
+3 Sharp Shot

128? :D


lol , 126 releases and 128 games ;)

#27 Ignorama OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Feb 8, 2018 8:56 PM

If you count it that way you also have to count the different games in Mr. Basic meets Bits 'n Bytes. But its not useful to count it this way in my opinion, where draw the line? Is every disciplin in SP Decathlon a game on its own as well?



#28 the1hatman OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 3:16 AM

It's 125. The INTV Pac-Man is just a variant. If you count it as anything else then you have to start counting the CBS versions of the Coleco releases as different games. Triple Challenge is not the same thing as it is a combination of 3 games not a repackaged release of 1 earlier game.



#29 m-crew OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 3:45 AM

If you count it that way you also have to count the different games in Mr. Basic meets Bits 'n Bytes. But its not useful to count it this way in my opinion, where draw the line? Is every disciplin in SP Decathlon a game on its own as well?


I Think Jason was just joking, I was in my reply... :)

#30 m-crew OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 3:51 AM

(we have been through this years ago)but I go by the official amount of release's during the commercial run of the intellivision life span. (not counting regional or rebranded for region or brand name examples CBS,Sears ext)


Then in your own explanation as intv pac man Triple Challenge is a repackaged game of three earlier individual releases.

So in your explanation its 124

I still believe as above quote ..

Cheers happy face , happy face

#31 mr_me OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 5:00 AM

Atari Pacman and INTV Pacman are the same game, there's no reason to have both unless you are a collector. Atari Pacman is the original release in 1983 and the INTV reissue came out after 1984/85. It's similar to all the INTV editions of the Mattel Electronics originals (eg. Big League Baseball, Skiing, etc.) or the Sears editions. It is also a minor rom variation, other rom variation cartridges include Auto Racing, Poker & Blackjack, Armor Battle, Space Battle, Math Fun. Most of these other rom variations are considered fixes and are far more significant than the titlescreen hack in Pacman.

Triple Challenge is a multicart or compilation cartridge of previously released cartridges. Nothing orignal here. If you have USCF Chess, ABPA Backgammon, and Checkers cartridges, there's no reason to have Triple Challenge unless you are a collector. Triple Action and Word Fun were album cartridges of all original games. Learning Fun I is really the original release of Factor Fun plus previously released Math Fun. Learning Fun II is the original release of Memory Fun plus the previously released games from the Word Fun cartridge.

World Championship Baseball, Super Pro Football, Slap Shot, Slam Dunk, Mountain Madness are all updates to existing cartridges with enhancements and are considered different games. Not sure about World Cup Soccer, it might be all new code. This is in contrast to the updates of Auto Racing or Space Battle, for example, which are considered fixes.

So there is 124 original releases plus one compilation/multicart for a total of 125 cartridges for collectors. You could also say there are 119 original, plus five updates, plus one compilation/multicart. And then there is one Keyboard Component cartridge, plus eight cassette tapes, all officially released, bringing the total to 133/134.

Edited by mr_me, Fri Feb 9, 2018 5:21 AM.


#32 Utopia ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 5:39 AM

Atari Pacman and INTV Pacman are the same game, there's no reason to have both unless you are a collector. Atari Pacman is the original release in 1983 and the INTV reissue came out after 1984/85. It's similar to all the INTV editions of the Mattel Electronics originals (eg. Big League Baseball, Skiing, etc.) or the Sears editions. It is also a minor rom variation, other rom variation cartridges include Auto Racing, Poker & Blackjack, Armor Battle, Space Battle, Math Fun. Most of these other rom variations are considered fixes and are far more significant than the titlescreen hack in Pacman.

Triple Challenge is a multicart or compilation cartridge of previously released cartridges. Nothing orignal here. If you have USCF Chess, ABPA Backgammon, and Checkers cartridges, there's no reason to have Triple Challenge unless you are a collector. Triple Action and Word Fun were album cartridges of all original games. Learning Fun I is really the original release of Factor Fun plus previously released Math Fun. Learning Fun II is the original release of Memory Fun plus the previously released games from the Word Fun cartridge.

World Championship Baseball, Super Pro Football, Slap Shot, Slam Dunk, Mountain Madness are all updates to existing cartridges with enhancements and are considered different games. Not sure about World Cup Soccer, it might be all new code. This is in contrast to the updates of Auto Racing or Space Battle, for example, which are considered fixes.

So there is 124 original releases plus one compilation/multicart for a total of 125 cartridges for collectors. You could also say there are 119 original, plus five updates, plus one compilation/multicart. And then there is one Keyboard Component cartridge, plus eight cassette tapes, all officially released, bringing the total to 133/134.

So everyone, is that a wrap?

 

Case solved and no need for another 500 threads on this topic.

 

Well done mr_me and everyone else involved. Your opinion counts. (literally!)


Edited by Utopia, Fri Feb 9, 2018 5:41 AM.


#33 intellivotion OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 7:00 AM

Hmm...
-1 Pac-Man
-1 Triple Challenge
+2 Triple Action
+3 Sharp Shot
128? :D

+ 2 (Mr. Basic meets Bits'n'Bytes)
+ 1 (Learning Fun I)
+ 3 (Learning Fun II)
= 134
lol

#34 intellivotion OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 7:12 AM

(...)
World Championship Baseball, Super Pro Football, Slap Shot, Slam Dunk, Mountain Madness are all updates to existing cartridges with enhancements and are considered different games. Not sure about World Cup Soccer, it might be all new code.(...)

World Cup Soccer is widely new code: Nice Ideas added the penalties, a new kind of kick and the one player feature

Thanks for the deepened analysis

#35 wolfy62 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 7:21 AM

I stick with 125,i am at peace with that. :)



#36 intellivotion OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 7:26 AM

I stick with 125,i am at peace with that. :)

this

#37 mr_me OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 7:45 AM

World Cup Soccer is widely new code: Nice Ideas added the penalties, a new kind of kick and the one player feature

Thanks for the deepened analysis

Yes, but is it all new code like Championship Tennis and Chip Shot are, or is it based on NASL Soccer. Even the player animation graphics look different.

Edited by mr_me, Fri Feb 9, 2018 7:49 AM.


#38 intellivotion OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 8:03 AM

Yes, but is it all new code like Championship Tennis and Chip Shot are, or is it based on NASL Soccer. Even the player animation graphics look different.

ah, I got what you mean. I've no clue

#39 m-crew OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 12:00 PM

[quote name="mr_me" post="3957399" timestamp="1518174026 You could also say there are 119 original, plus five updates, plus one compilation/multicart. And then there is one Keyboard Component cartridge, plus eight cassette tapes, all officially released, bringing the total to 133/134.[/quote]


So there it is the official releases as mr me puts
So it's neither 124,125,126
But to still say 125 is the official count is wrong in my opinion.
It all depends on how and what you want to count
If you don't have the 3 atarisoft releases ,
Then is it really complete , or if you don't have all the Intv releases with PAC Man and Triple Challenge is that really complete.

I guess it's to each their own.

Love to hear everyone's views on this subject.
And really no number under what I guess mr me came up with is "OFFICIAL"

Cheers.

Go Canada Go !!!!

#40 mr_me OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 12:10 PM

Either pac-man can be used to complete your collection; just as INTV/Intellivision Inc or Sears Basketball rather than Mattel NBA Basketball can be used to complete your collection. If you don't count Keyboard Component stuff than the count is unofficially 124 cartridges plus one compilation multicart making it unofficially 125.

Edited by mr_me, Fri Feb 9, 2018 12:13 PM.


#41 Lathe26 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 1:32 PM

For me, if you're going to count Pac-Man as 2 releases because of the title screen change and box change, then you _have_ count the Digiplay games with a title screen changes and box changes as separate releases. Discounting them as "regional" doesn't seem like a strong enough reason to ignore them.

At least that's how I see it. Only changing the title screen and box is why I consider the Pac-Man's to just be variants and not separate games.

As for the Keyboard Component items, I choose not to count them as part of the 125 since they were only released to limited test markets and not the general population (only 3 cities IIRC). Alternatively, if the Keyboard Component is counted, then maybe so should the PlayCable (yes, games were downloaded into its RAM but it also shipped with some ROM as well), though including the PlayCable would blur the line between add-on and cartridge.

#42 cmart604 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 2:29 PM

I’ve always been comfortable with this list given the source but everyone should collect whatever makes you happy.
http://www.intellivi...com/credits.php

#43 the1hatman OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 2:30 PM

I do understand the argument for saying Triple Challenge is a re-release just as INTV Pac-Man is but between having a different title screen, a revised menu screen and the simple fact that none of the previous releases had the option of playing more than just one game, I think there is enough difference/new options/updates to make it a stand alone title. If it is not then all the various versions of baseball have to be counted as re-releases as well.

 

While this will always be a matter of opinion and people will have to determine what they want their collection's parameters to be, the idea that one person or even a small group of people somehow made this "ruling" for everyone else is very inaccurate. There has long been a general consensus that 125 is the correct number. From various websites, to collector forums, gaming articles and so forth, 125 has been the standard. There is always room for debate and opinions, but for me, I'm going to go with the last official source on the matter and say Keith already had the final judgement on the issue:

 

Intellivision Productions History Page, 1st paragraph



#44 mr_me OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 3:02 PM

The Keyboard Component was available everywhere by direct mail order by fall 1981. It was test marketed in California in 1980. By fall 1981 it was only physically in stores in New Orleans and Seattle but anyone could buy it by contacting Mattel directly. The printer could only be purchased by mail order. There might have been more out there but they stopped promoting it and then tried to buy them all back upon cancellation in 1982. As it is the cassettes are more rare than Spiker and Stadium Mud Buggies.

As far as PlayCable is concerned, it was never for sale to users. They were the property of the cable companies. And it is a hardware peripheral, not a game or application software.

Edited by mr_me, Fri Feb 9, 2018 3:07 PM.


#45 m-crew OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 3:29 PM

If it is not then all the various versions of baseball have to be counted as re-releases as well.
 
 
Intellivision Productions History Page, 1st paragraph


That was one point I was going to bring up next as well, really how much of difference's between the baseballs as well, single player and sliding /poof of smoke,

I do understand the argument for saying Triple Challenge is a re-release just as INTV Pac-Man is but between having a different title screen, a revised menu screen and the simple fact that none of the previous releases had the option of playing more than just one game, I think there is enough difference/new options/updates to make it a stand alone title. If it is not then all the various versions of baseball have to be counted as re-releases as well.
 
While this will always be a matter of opinion and people will have to determine what they want their collection's parameters to be, the idea that one person or even a small group of people somehow made this "ruling" for everyone else is very inaccurate. There has long been a general consensus that 125 is the correct number. From various websites, to collector forums, gaming articles and so forth, 125 has been the standard. There is always room for debate and opinions, but for me, I'm going to go with the last official source on the matter and say Keith already had the final judgement on the issue:
 
Intellivision Productions History Page, 1st paragraph


Just because it has been assumed or accepted the standard all this time doesn't really make written in stone (could be because it has been posted up in Kieth's website and people took that number as the standard)What if another of the Blue Ranger posted that 124 were released would that be the standard? Just throwing that out there but like you said there is always room for debate on standards and Im sure most collectors do and have them both to consider their collection really complete.


everyone should collect whatever makes you happy.


This !!!!....

Cheers

#46 the1hatman OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 4:04 PM

Just because it has been assumed or accepted the standard all this time doesn't really make written in stone

 

Never said it did, hence the part where I said "this will always be a matter of opinion and people will have to determine what they want their collection's parameters to be". But that fact that the site for the current incarnation of the company states it as 125 makes it a pretty compelling reason to go with that figure. It's not like we don't have anything that can be considered official. It's right there for anyone to see though people are free to disagree with it.

 

 

(could be because it has been posted up in Kieth's website and people took that number as the standard)

 

And why shouldn't they? That's as close to getting the facts directly from the source as anyone could hope to find.

 

 

What if another of the Blue Ranger posted that 124 were released would that be the standard? 

 

That would depend on their reasoning. Since none have come forward to challenge that figure in all these years I think it's safe to say no one has a problem with it. Even so, I would likely side with the person who was widely regarded as the preeminent historian and guardian of the system's memory for decades over another programmer.

 

 

Just throwing that out there but like you said there is always room for debate on standards and Im sure most collectors do and have them both to consider their collection really complete.

 

I do not have the INTV version specifically because I do not chase variants. Even so I don't believe most collectors consider that a requirement for completion at all. It's the equivalent of saying you have to have Big League Baseball or your collection is incomplete despite already owning Major League Baseball.

 

We can go on and on I'm sure. The ultimate answer to the original post in this thread is this;

 

The widely accepted number is 125 so either Pac-Man version is generally accepted as checking off that box in ones collection. However, you have to decide what makes your collection complete. No one else can do that for you. If you hit the 125 with only one version of Pac-Man and feel like something is missing then you should get the other one. If you get to 125 with any combination of Mattel/Intellivision Inc./Atari/Coleco/CBS/whatever... and feel like you have it all then you're good. If you get to 124 without Triple Challenge but don't feel a need to get it because you have the individual release of all three games on that cart then you're also good.

 

Only you will know what makes for a complete set in your own mind.



#47 Lathe26 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 4:30 PM

The Keyboard Component was available everywhere by direct mail order by fall 1981. It was test marketed in California in 1980. By fall 1981 it was only physically in stores in New Orleans and Seattle but anyone could buy it by contacting Mattel directly. The printer could only be purchased by mail order. There might have been more out there but they stopped promoting it and then tried to buy them all back upon cancellation in 1982. As it is the cassettes are more rare than Spiker and Stadium Mud Buggies.

As far as PlayCable is concerned, it was never for sale to users. They were the property of the cable companies. And it is a hardware peripheral, not a game or application software.


Interesting. It was my understanding that Seattle was the first test market with a total of 25 units with 2 larger test markets afterwards that added about another 4000 units (one being California, as you mentioned). Most or all of the units and accessories were sold via mail order so while theoretically any location could order, only the test markets had catalogs available and thus why the KC mostly only showed up in those locations. If Mattel opened up the KC nationally, how did the average person learn of the catalogs to order from? I don't think Mattel ever ramped up production of the KC for widespread national sales, or at least that is my understanding especially considering the variability of the KC's internal circuitry. Considering the circuit variability and that the KC's sales numbers were much lower than the PlayCable's which never left the test market phase, it seems that the KC never left the test market phase. However, I could be wrong in all this.

#48 m-crew OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 4:37 PM

We can go on and on I'm sure. The ultimate answer to the original post in this thread is this;
 
However, you have to decide what makes your collection complete. No one else can do that for you. If you hit the 125 with only one version of Pac-Man and feel like something is missing then you should get the other one. If you get to 125 with any combination of Mattel/Intellivision Inc./Atari/Coleco/CBS/whatever... and feel like you have it all then you're good. If you get to 124 without Triple Challenge but don't feel a need to get it because you have the individual release of all three games on that cart then you're also good.
 
Only you will know what makes for a complete set in your own mind.


Wham !!!! This is it !!! 124 ,125,126 Can be debated for ever..

#49 mr_me OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 4:51 PM

Playcable was available in lots of places for many years including Canada. It was in service in 1981, 1982, and 1983. It is so rare because nobody owned one, they had to be returned to the cable company or you got charged.

Mattel did not want to sell any Keyboard Components because they were losing money on them. Bv law Mattel has to make them available, so if you asked for one, Mattel had to sell you one. My understanding is that they were still fined by the FCC despite their minimal efforts. And that only 4000 Keyboard Components were made. I think far more Playcable boxes were made but they were returned to the cable companies and likely destroyed.

Wham !!!! This is it !!! 124 ,125,126 Can be debated for ever..

I understand 124 and 125 but how do you come up with 126?

Edited by mr_me, Fri Feb 9, 2018 4:57 PM.


#50 m-crew OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 5:04 PM

I understand 124 and 125 but how do you come up with 126?


explained earlier in the thread.

:)




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