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How many original releases are there?


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#51 JasonlikesINTV OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 6:25 PM

A few thoughts.

1. If you see the light and realize you should just collect everything, then it doesn't matter if you count 124, 125, 126....You're complete!

2. There are always more variants, soooo.... you're never ever complete. Don't go into the light!

#52 the1hatman OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 6:39 PM

I understand 124 and 125 but how do you come up with 126?

 

Some people consider the INTV version of Pac-Man to be a stand alone release and not a variant of the Atari version. I disagree with this but I also understand their reasoning.



#53 intellivotion OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 6:47 PM

125 is my number and was my target, but surely I wouldn't have felt well if I haven't had both editions of Pac-Man when I completed the classics. So, yes, 125 is the number but 126 is what I needed.

I know, I'm a crazy collector, it's not my fault

#54 the1hatman OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 6:50 PM

A few thoughts.

1. If you see the light and realize you should just collect everything, then it doesn't matter if you count 124, 125, 126....You're complete!

2. There are always more variants, soooo.... you're never ever complete. Don't go into the light!

 

I knew nothing of variants when I got back into Intellivision in 2006. At first all I wanted was a system and working carts that I had played when I was a kid. When I learned there were only 125 games I decided to become a real collector and chase them all complete in box. It was only then I noticed some gatefold boxes mentioned the Keyboard Component and some did not. After that I discovered the color manuals and FOR COLOR TV VIEWING ONLY boxes. At that point I had to decide what was going to count for myself and my own collection. I decided the easiest thing was to chase the original release for each game, meaning the oldest/1st boxed version of everything. This limited my collection to 125 games and avoided having to chase things like Sears, Intellivision Inc., CBS and yes, INTV's Pac-Man. It also helped that the later and more rare releases usually had no variations or were an easy 50/50 prospect on finding either version.

 

I don't hold out much hope of ever getting all 125 but limiting my collection to this scope did save me time, space and money. I never would have made it to 121 CIB if I chased everything. I'll leave that to the super collectors we have here.



#55 JasonlikesINTV OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 6:54 PM

 
I knew nothing of variants when I got back into Intellivision in 2006. At first all I wanted was a system and working carts that I had played when I was a kid. When I learned there were only 125 games I decided to become a real collector and chase them all complete in box. It was only then I noticed some gatefold boxes mentioned the Keyboard Component and some did not. After that I discovered the color manuals and FOR COLOR TV VIEWING ONLY boxes. At that point I had to decide what was going to count for myself and my own collection. I decided the easiest thing was to chase the original release for each game, meaning the oldest/1st boxed version of everything. This limited my collection to 125 games and avoided having to chase things like Sears, Intellivision Inc., CBS and yes, INTV's Pac-Man. It also helped that the later and more rare releases usually had no variations or were an easy 50/50 prospect on finding either version.
 
I don't hold out much hope of ever getting all 125 but limiting my collection to this scope did save me time, space and money. I never would have made it to 121 CIB if I chased everything. I'll leave that to the super collectors we have here.


I spread myself pretty thin for a while there, but found the most satisfaction focusing on smaller subsets to collect for. It's too overwhelming to try for everything all at once.

#56 wolfy62 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 7:35 PM

I like my 125, and I collect all homebrews.

 

For whatever reason that my mind works this way,I never collected the Sears set or variants.

 

Of course, if I actually come up with spare money at 55 years old that could change.

 

Highly unlikely, the kids are in college now. Priorities are my main priority....... :thumbsup:



#57 m-crew ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 7:37 PM

A few thoughts.

1. If you see the light and realize you should just collect everything, then it doesn't matter if you count 124, 125, 126....You're complete!

2. There are always more variants, soooo.... you're never ever complete. Don't go into the light!



lol, just like those deep ocean fish, once you look into their light your lights out.. lmao!!

Don't ask I confused my self.. lol pass me another beer would you.....

#58 mr_me OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 9:58 PM

 
Some people consider the INTV version of Pac-Man to be a stand alone release and not a variant of the Atari version. I disagree with this but I also understand their reasoning.

Okay, but Atari pacman was reissued as INTV Pac-man. INTV Corp, previously known as Intellivision Inc, reissued lots of the Mattel cartridges. What makes pac-man special and not Burgertime or Basketball for example? An explanation might be helpfull.

#59 JasonlikesINTV OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 10:22 PM

lol, just like those deep ocean fish, once you look into their light your lights out.. lmao!!

Don't ask I confused my self.. lol pass me another beer would you.....


Lol, cheers!

#60 Rev OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 9, 2018 11:56 PM

Probably around 123

#61 the1hatman OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:26 AM

Okay, but Atari pacman was reissued as INTV Pac-man. INTV Corp, previously known as Intellivision Inc, reissued lots of the Mattel cartridges. What makes pac-man special and not Burgertime or Basketball for example? An explanation might be helpfull.


You'll have to get that from someone that thinks it is special. I consider it to be a variant just like Big League Baseball is to MLB, nothing more. Doesn't make my 125 as I already have the Atari version.

I suppose they could claim being an entirely different company's release makes it different than the reissues from companies that spawned from Mattel. Or that its title screen hack makes it enough of a rom update to justify changing the list to 126. Neither holds much weight with me but I can see where they're coming from.

#62 m-crew ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:28 AM

Probably around 123

Probably around 123


yup, I going with this ;) because no one has disputed this number yet.. lol

#63 m-crew ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:33 AM

Okay, but Atari pacman was reissued as INTV Pac-man. INTV Corp, previously known as Intellivision Inc, reissued lots of the Mattel cartridges. What makes pac-man special and not Burgertime or Basketball for example? An explanation might be helpfull.



So lets pick baseball, with the single player mode and a puff of smoke and sliding .. That make its enough of a change to call it a different release.. Right?

#64 m-crew ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:35 AM

I suppose they could claim being an entirely different company's release makes it different than the reissues from companies that spawned from Mattel. Or that its title screen hack makes it enough of a rom update to justify changing the list to 126. Neither holds much weight with me but I can see where they're coming from.



#65 wolfy62 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:09 AM

So lets pick baseball, with the single player mode and a puff of smoke and sliding .. That make its enough of a change to call it a different release.. Right?

Man, a puff of smoke does actually help now and then... :thumbsup:



#66 the1hatman OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:33 AM

So lets pick baseball, with the single player mode and a puff of smoke and sliding .. That make its enough of a change to call it a different release.. Right?


Correct. Just being able to play single player is a huge difference. The change in the game's AI required to do that is huge. Sliding is a nice addition as well but not a huge difference in game play. Either is still a much greater change when compared to a title screen hack that people want to use to claim an appreciable difference in the Pac-Man releases.

In this comparison you have to ask yourself if the games play any differently. Baseball does while Pac-Man is exactly the same.

#67 m-crew ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:37 AM

Man, a puff of smoke does actually help now and then... :thumbsup:


Puff the magic Dragon , always helps... lol

#68 m-crew ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:40 AM

Correct. Just being able to play single player is a huge difference. The change in the game's AI required to do that is huge. Sliding is a nice addition as well but not a huge difference in game play. Either is still a much greater change when compared to a title screen hack that people want to use to claim an appreciable difference in the Pac-Man releases.

In this comparison you have to ask yourself if the games play any differently. Baseball does while Pac-Man is exactly the same.


I wasn't comparing differences, It was more of a statement.. but all good.

#69 m-crew ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:42 AM

You hit the jack pot with your statement before regarding Atari Soft Pac Man,


But I think this debate could go on forever because opinions very drastically...

#70 mr_me OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:12 AM

Interesting. It was my understanding that Seattle was the first test market with a total of 25 units with 2 larger test markets afterwards that added about another 4000 units (one being California, as you mentioned). Most or all of the units and accessories were sold via mail order so while theoretically any location could order, only the test markets had catalogs available and thus why the KC mostly only showed up in those locations. If Mattel opened up the KC nationally, how did the average person learn of the catalogs to order from? I don't think Mattel ever ramped up production of the KC for widespread national sales, or at least that is my understanding especially considering the variability of the KC's internal circuitry. Considering the circuit variability and that the KC's sales numbers were much lower than the PlayCable's which never left the test market phase, it seems that the KC never left the test market phase. However, I could be wrong in all this.

This is from the "Intellivision History and Philosophy" document at papaintellivision.com
 
It says the Keyboard Component "test market" was in Fresno, September 1980; and there was no software other than the BASIC cartridge at the time.  It describes Seattle and New Orleans as "First Markets".  My understanding is that there was a significant redesign before the test market and another prior to the "First Markets" in Fall 1981 in efforts to reduce the cost of production. 

 

Not sure what you mean by catalogs, but the average person that bought an Intellivision in the early days had a big Keyboard Component promotion and list of KC software right on the Intellivision box, as well as the pamphlets that were handed out at all retailers everywhere.  If you came to know Intellivision later, you might not know anything about the Keyboard Component.  If you don't want to include the KC software in your list that's fine, just as someone that doesn't have an ECS may not want to include the ECS cartridges in their list.  Nothing says there can't be more than one list.
 
inthpkc.png
 

...


Just because it has been assumed or accepted the standard all this time doesn't really make written in stone (could be because it has been posted up in Kieth's website and people took that number as the standard)What if another of the Blue Ranger posted that 124 were released would that be the standard? Just throwing that out there but like you said there is always room for debate on standards and Im sure most collectors do and have them both to consider their collection really complete.



This !!!!....

Cheers

 I agree with this completely; if someone wants to make a suggestion that is fine but they need to provide a convincing argument.  These lists are not a matter of opinion they are based on facts.  The lists at intellivisionlives.com explains that the Sears editions and the Intellivision Inc / INTV Corp re-releases are the same as the original release, and that includes Pac-man.  It also explains that World Championship Baseball, Super Pro Football, Slam Dunk, Slap Shot, Mountain Madness are based on earlier cartridges and add features.  It also explains that Triple Challenge simply uses the game code from three earlier cartridges. 

 

If I had an Intellivision in the 1980s and liked my ML Baseball, ABPA Backgammon, Checkers, USCF Chess, and Atarisoft Pac-man cartridges; I'd likely buy World Championship Baseball but pass on Triple Challenge and INTV Pac-man.
 

So lets pick baseball, with the single player mode and a puff of smoke and sliding .. That make its enough of a change to call it a different release.. Right?

We should really talk about INTV Corp Pac-man. It sounds like your argument is that the rom change of a modified title-screen is enough to distinguish the game.  The rom changes in Auto Racing and Space Battle were far more significant but they are not considered new games.  INTV Pac-man is the exact same game as the original.
 
Regarding World Championship Baseball; like the other enhanced sports games having a computer opponent alone is enough for someone who owns the original to upgrade.  WC Baseball also adds fly balls which changes the game, re-positioning fielders, sliding, running through first base, and skill levels (as opposed to slowing the system speed).
 

Ok, sorry if this has been discussed prior, but I was just going over my collection. How is PacMan officially classified? It was released by Atarisoft and Intv Corp. Is it 126 releases but only 125 games, after the title screen and cart design, the gameplay is exactly the same isnt it? Would it not be counted as 2 releases if seperate developers (Home brewers) released it today? I think instances of MLB Baseball, Big League Baseball And Baseball are still just 1 release as they are all the same game by the same company(Mattel). Does that make sense?

MLB Baseball was released by Mattel,and In North America Baseball was released by Sears; Big League Baseball was a reissue/re-release by INTV Corp / Intellivision Inc. The game was programmed by APh Technological Consulting.



#71 Humblejack OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:28 AM

Just my point of view.  First off, what difference does it make how many there are, 12 or 1200. Collect them all.  Not a bad philosophy, it works for me. Heck I have 2 Chip Shot Golf boxes because they are a slightly different color.  Now, before you all slam me, I know, I am sick but none of you but one on AA are a doctor and I'm not sure he works with the mentally ill, or do you TrekMD? I think we need a couch at PRGE where us sickos can lie down, lie to TrekMD and blame our parents for the way we turned out then head out to the floor to find more variants. Or we could just read 3 pages of 124, 125, or 126 on a thread on AA and at the end of it feel so useless that suicide is and option.


Edited by Humblejack, Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:29 AM.


#72 the1hatman OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:58 PM

I wasn't comparing differences, It was more of a statement.. but all good.

 

You are comparing WC Baseball to INTV Pac-Man and insinuating that the differences in baseball being enough to justify it as a separate release also apply to Pac-Man. The problem with that lies in WC Baseball's changes to MLB make it play very differently where there is no difference in gameplay between Atari and INTV Pac-Man. It's just a title screen hack over the exact same game.

 

 

You hit the jack pot with your statement before regarding Atari Soft Pac Man

 

I also added that argument held little weight with me. Otherwise, by that reasoning, Mattel Burgertime and Intellivision Inc. Burgertime are different games. But in reality it's the same game released by different companies. It's just a box variant re-release which is exactly what INTV Pac-Man is.



#73 Lathe26 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:30 PM

This is from the "Intellivision History and Philosophy" document at papaintellivision.com
 
It says the Keyboard Component "test market" was in Fresno, September 1980; and there was no software other than the BASIC cartridge at the time.  It describes Seattle and New Orleans as "First Markets".  My understanding is that there was a significant redesign before the test market and another prior to the "First Markets" in Fall 1981 in efforts to reduce the cost of production. 

 

Not sure what you mean by catalogs, but the average person that bought an Intellivision in the early days had a big Keyboard Component promotion and list of KC software right on the Intellivision box, as well as the pamphlets that were handed out at all retailers everywhere.  If you came to know Intellivision later, you might not know anything about the Keyboard Component.  If you don't want to include the KC software in your list that's fine, just as someone that doesn't have an ECS may not want to include the ECS cartridges in their list.  Nothing says there can't be more than one list.

 

The catalogs I was referring to would be the kind that lists the products with prices and how to order them (similar to the old Montgomery Wards and Sears Christmas catalogs).  Pertaining to whether the KC was a generally available product or only a test market item, it's the prices and how to order part that is important to the question.  The early pamphlets and flyers don't count; to most of the public, these were just lists of vaporware.

 

I don't recall seeing a scan of such KC catalogs (or even a plain typewritten price list), though I might be forgetting.  However, there are a number or references saying that the KC and accessories were available through mail order so _something_ had to exist.

 

Given that the KC was only marketted in 3 cities, that the order catalogs were not widely available to the public, the lack of a Mattel-sized national ad campaign announcing the KC is finally available, that only ~4000 KCs were ever made, it seems safe to say the KC was test-market only.  "First Market" is a term sometimes used to mean "we're going to sell something to a very limited market before making it available as a product for the general market" or, to put it another way, a "test selling market".

 

From that, I regard KC software in the same category as Demo cartridges and Test cartridges; they are not part of the 125 list.  They can be considered part of a "complete collection", just like pamphlets and consoles and joystick add-ons, but excluded from the 125 list.



#74 m-crew ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:41 PM

You are comparing WC Baseball to INTV Pac-Man and insinuating that the differences in baseball being enough to justify it as a separate release also apply to Pac-Man. The problem with that lies in WC Baseball's changes to MLB make it play very differently where there is no difference in gameplay between Atari and INTV Pac-Man. It's just a title screen hack over the exact same game.


Really and you know what I was trying to come across, it was just a statement and maybe in your mind you took it that way.
And you are the authority of everything intellivision .
 

I also added that argument held little weight with me. Otherwise, by that reasoning, Mattel Burgertime and Intellivision Inc. Burgertime are different games. But in reality it's the same game released by different companies. It's just a box variant re-release which is exactly what INTV Pac-Man is.


Your point of why Atari Soft Pac Man could be (is) included in the Original release's is why I quoted your post. I could not care what your personal opinion is .. oh I forgot you are the authority of everything intellivision and what you say rules.

Get real, I could not care what your thinking . But go ahead and keep quoted me .

Cheers Happy Face Happy Face!!!

LOL

Edited by m-crew, Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:01 PM.


#75 Lathe26 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:47 PM

Playcable was available in lots of places for many years including Canada. It was in service in 1981, 1982, and 1983. It is so rare because nobody owned one, they had to be returned to the cable company or you got charged.

 

Was the PlayCable available lots of places?  According to Wikipedia (not an authoritative source for the PlayCable), the PlayCable was available in 3 cities.  I do know that there was 1 or 2  Canadian cities it was also available in that Wikipedia omits.  Using Wikipedia's (underestimated) numbers, there were ~20,000 PlayCables deployed.  This was the number I was comparing to the KC's 4000 units.

 

However, given that the PlayCable was available from 1981-1983, even if it was only in 5 markets, I'm not so certain that the PlayCable itself should considered a "test market" item.  From the years you gave, it seems more like it should be considered a "real product" but that Mattel just couldn't get it off the ground after years of effort (high cost of back-end computers, few subscribers, etc).  I'm still on the fence with this thought.

 

Side note: do you have any references for the PlayCable's years on hand?  No need to go digging deep for these numbers.






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