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STUNT CAR RACER?


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#326 kenjennings OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:59 PM

Just added the ATARI 8-Bit conversion details to the Stunt Car Racer Wikipedia page (so far it only showed the ATARI 8-bit platform but no details).

 

https://en.wikipedia...Stunt_Car_Racer

 

This is a truly amazing port and it deserves major recognition. :-D

 

FYI, the page shows a link instead of a picture for the Atari 8-bit version.

The link is asking for/expecting an upload.



#327 tjlazer OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:09 PM

Don’t get your panties in a bunch that quickly! the guy is offering a service putting the game onto a disk for those that cannot do it for only 5 pounds!

#328 abbotkinneydude OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:05 PM

 

Because wikipedia sucks.  The delete-or dominates edits for the past two years on this tiny page and probably thinks it is their own private empire.  I just now put the edit back up simply to make them frustrated.  We should all take turns at this.

 

Thank you for re-pushing my previous update. The reason provided for the original deletion was 'fan remake'. I created a new section ('Unofficial Versions') for the Amiga Hacks and the Atari 8-bit version. Also added an excerpt and a link to the ChinnyVision review of Stunt Car Racer (where the ST wins).



#329 +Adam+ OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:59 PM

Your Wikipedia changes disappeared again. So there were two reasons (named "Fan remake" and "Contemporary review"): https://en.wikipedia...Danielbernstein



#330 tjlazer OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:27 PM

I would continue to make the edits!  He needs to get a life.  Maybe find a Russian bride?


Edited by tjlazer, Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:34 PM.


#331 patjomki OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:30 PM

Your Wikipedia changes disappeared again. So there were two reasons (named "Fan remake" and "Contemporary review"): https://en.wikipedia...Danielbernstein

 

Actually I don't see a huge difference between mentioning the AMIGA enhancements and the enhancements of the ATARI 8 bit version. To me this looks like a personal vendetta of the wiki user Tanonero against ATARI software.


Edited by patjomki, Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:32 PM.


#332 zzip OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:40 PM

Don't other games list fan remakes?

The Ultima IV page does:
https://en.wikipedia...t_of_the_Avatar

#333 abbotkinneydude OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:36 PM

There's no logic in allowing the AMIGA hacks to show but not the ATARI 8-bit version. This is just stupid thinking. Also, the ChinnyVision review of SCR is fair and balanced. None of the platforms tested get a bad rap.

 

Here's the excerpt from the Talk page:

Stunt Car Racer

Hi, I am reverting your edits to the article Stunt Car Racer because of the following two reasons taken from the WikiProject Video games:

  • Fan remake. "It is usually inappropriate to mention or list homebrews and fan remakes of games", unless they have achieved notablity criteria such as far-reaching impact. This doesn't seem the case for the remake you added. (Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Video_games#Exceptions)
  • Contemporary review. "As a general rule, reviewers of video games are inextricably tied to their temporal vantage point and because advancements in video game technology increase by leaps and bounds every few years, it is unfair to review a game in light of the game scene 20 years later. Likewise, hindsight can lead to revisionist reviews and nostalgia may lead to unduly positive scores. An effort should be made to include contemporary coverage of games if available in order to maintain a neutral point of view untainted by modern perceptions." A contemporary coverage of the game was already included in the article.

Please refrain from reverting again before having sought a consensus about your edits. --Tanonero (msg) 14:04, 24 April 2018 (UTC)



#334 Mclaneinc OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:23 PM

Don’t get your panties in a bunch that quickly! the guy is offering a service putting the game onto a disk for those that cannot do it for only 5 pounds!

 

To be fair he's also offering the same deal on any game you want and at 5.00 quid PLUS a 1.00UK for postage its more than just covering costs..

 

So much for honouring those "this cannot be sold" markers on disks..

 

And of course it might be different if  it was your own game being sold :)



#335 Mr Robot OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:10 PM

Don't other games list fan remakes?

The Ultima IV page does:
https://en.wikipedia...t_of_the_Avatar

 

 

The change I put in for Skool Daze is still there...



#336 Rybags ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:32 PM

It's not "fan remake", it's a proper conversion.  Fan remakes tend to have inferior functionality to the original product where this one is clearly an improvement.  Plus it's largely using the original code so deserves to be called a port - the only difference is that it wasn't done by the original publisher.



#337 adam242 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:06 PM

Add me to the list of people undoing tanonero's undoings. Let's keep this up, people!



#338 abbotkinneydude OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:21 PM

I did respond to Tanonero via my Wikipedia User Talk Page:

 

Hello Tanonero,

The reasons mentioned above used to censor my previous edit of Stunt Car Racer do not apply.

1) The ATARI 8-Bit version is not a fan remake. It is a proper conversion based on the original C64 Stunt Car Racer code. It also improves on the C64 version by providing a faster frame rate, music, improved SFX sounds, high score cafe (so that players can upload their score) and full PAL/NTSC compatibility. As of this time of writing, the ATARI 8-Bit version of Stunt Car Racer is ranking #1 on Atarimania with a 9.1 score out of a possible 10: http://www.atarimani...cer_s22936.html

You're welcome to read the full Stunt Car Racer discussion on AtariAge: http://atariage.com/...tunt-car-racer/

Please see post #336 of the discussion: http://atariage.com/...acer/?p=4014537

"It's not "fan remake", it's a proper conversion. Fan remakes tend to have inferior functionality to the original product where this one is clearly an improvement. Plus it's largely using the original code so deserves to be called a port - the only difference is that it wasn't done by the original publisher."

2) The ChinnyVision review of STUNT CAR RACER is fair and balanced. None of the versions reviewed (ST, C64, Spectrum) get a bad opinion. I suggest creating a 'Contemporary Review' section for Stunt Car Racer so that the ChinnyVision quotes reside there.

"A contemporary coverage of the game was already included in the article."

This is not true. There was no contemporary review of the game (contemporary = current era) until I added the quotes from the ChinnyVision review.

Best Regards.



#339 Mclaneinc OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:26 AM

Sounds like the other guy only likes his version of reality instead of the ACTUAL reality....It screws up the point of a Wiki...

 

Well if in his opinion SC is a 'fan made' item them I bloody wish there were a darn sight more 'fan remakes', SC is a polished professional PORT / CONVERSION of the game directly from the C64 code and enhanced from there...Its a full on totally viable release.

 

Back in Atari User days I'd be reviewing this as an unofficial port to the Atari and it would get a pretty damn good review based on its closeness to the bigger brothers out there and its excellent use of the Atari along with enormously satisfying game play with a long after play thanks to multiplayer etc

 

The guy seems to only class official releases as applicable rather than the notion of the QUALITY of the release, apart from a box and disk this would have sat on the shop shelf for a few mins before being snapped up as the great game it is, I would imagine if Geoff Crammond is still around he would give his blessings and some for this wonderful release.


Edited by Mclaneinc, Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:35 AM.


#340 Kr0tki OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:22 AM

Add me to the list of people undoing tanonero's undoings. Let's keep this up, people!

Don't do that. The proper way to resolve conflicts on Wikipedia is to discuss them on the talk page, assuming good faith of other editors. Not to engage in this mob-like behaviour that you suggest. The proposed changes to the "Stunt Car Racer" article are currently being discussed there, so they should not be reintroduced into the article until the discussion is resolved.

Don't other games list fan remakes?

Before using the "other articles have similar content" argument, read this.

#341 Mr Robot OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:56 AM

  • unless they have achieved notablity criteria such as far-reaching impact. This doesn't seem the case for the remake you added.

 

 

This is the argument. If you can demonstrate that the SCR port is a 'notable' one and has far-reaching impact, it can be included. 

 

The game IS notable, it objectively improves upon every original version in some way or other. The impact has been far reaching, you can point to many articles and reviews of it, not far enough for its own article but far enough it has earned a mention on the wiki page.



#342 zzip OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:40 AM

It's not "fan remake", it's a proper conversion.  Fan remakes tend to have inferior functionality to the original product where this one is clearly an improvement.  Plus it's largely using the original code so deserves to be called a port - the only difference is that it wasn't done by the original publisher.


No matter what you call it, the point is Wikipedia lists such things in articles for other games, so there is precedent

#343 Mclaneinc OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:45 AM

Trying to contact Geoff Crammond via his agency to see if he will have a look and give it his badge of approval....Its what it deserves...And IF (a big if) it might just shut up the Wiki peeps...

 

Paul..



#344 Faicuai OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 4, 2018 8:45 AM

...NEVER heard of SCR... until now, and it resembles an almost identical concept much later implemented on a similar (downloadable) PS3 game my kids used to like (!!!) I will have to check my prior PSN downloads to look up its name...

 

To the above extent, this conversion seems a MONUMENTAL achievement, especially when looking at the screen-play, the physics, effects... seems to me like a SHIT-LOAD of computations to be performed in a tiny cpu-cycles budget bound to an even tinier 6502 processor... I can only say KUDOS to the sick-minds that put attention to this... :-)))

 

HOWEVER, and having said the above... that ad-hoc (and unsolicited) XBIOS (that completely negates PBI and other contemporary and useful functionality) is a TOTAL disappointment. For such a masterful work, to be stuck to an .ATR casket reminds me precisely of what I hated the MOST of Atari's development scene back-in-the-day: most coders were easily inclined to follow provincial impulses, instead of adhering to longer-term, coherent implementation strategies that could better sustain the test-of-time and future collective-support (putting aside the lack of a more formal, better enforced development framework by Atari itself).

 

Again, just my constructive opinion in what otherwise seems the PORT of the DECADE (!!!)



#345 baktra OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 4, 2018 10:26 AM

I would believe that the XBIOS was chosen after careful and thorough consideration of available options and rather extensive RAM requirements of the game.

With limited resources, one has to make a compromise.



#346 popmilo OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 5, 2018 9:52 AM

HOWEVER, and having said the above... that ad-hoc (and unsolicited) XBIOS (that completely negates PBI and other contemporary and useful functionality) is a TOTAL disappointment.

 

Can you please explain what do you mean by that ?
I get the "stuck in atr" part, but what is that about pbi ? Do you maybe mean game could've been cart based ?



#347 Rybags ONLINE  

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Posted Sat May 5, 2018 5:25 PM

WTH?  A game programmer can put whatever they want into Ram under the OS.  It's not like it's doing a firmware flash and permanently disabling functionality.

And to the end user, whatever methods are used will be transparent and once you press Reset you get your stock machine back.

 

Most games don't use the OS anyway once loaded, beyond the VBlank shadow register handling and disk I/O.


Edited by Rybags, Sat May 5, 2018 5:26 PM.


#348 Faicuai OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 5, 2018 7:28 PM

Can you please explain what do you mean by that ?
I get the "stuck in atr" part, but what is that about pbi ? Do you maybe mean game could've been cart based ?

 
Very simple: 
 
Fire up your Atari 800+Incognito, go straight to Loader, attach supplied SCR .ATR, and try to boot it.
 
Instead of happening what you would expect in this day-and-age of PBI / IDE / SIDE, etc. (e.g. turns out that the .ATR loading-process DOES NOT work!), I end up transferring the .ATR to an SD card, fire-up my NUXX SIO drive, and... WAIT!!! It turns out that (on top of everything) accelerated SIO *DOES NOT FULLY WORK* there!!!
 
So my simple question is: 
 
WTF?:
  • Why the hell am I stuck with loading such an AMAZING piece of work (SCR) with an obscure loading-routine, ran from a slow-as-molasses SIO device, when I could do so almost instantly from the Incognito (or my Ultimates+SIDE on the XLs), on which people here have invested hundreds and hundreds of their personal life-time to develop and perfect them for our enjoyment?
  • Or... is there someone here trying to tell me that after *F_ing-30-years* we STILL don't have a standardized and flexible enough loading-routine to be quickly adapted to for loading large titles like this, across several storage solutions...  and somehow they are happy about it?
C'mon guys...

#349 CyranoJ ONLINE  

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Posted Sat May 5, 2018 8:10 PM

You could always go back in time and wait 30 years for it to load.



#350 Fingolfin OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 5, 2018 9:51 PM

Such an amazing game and incredible conversion.

 

Stunt Car Racer does not load quickly enough?  Is that the issue?  :-o

I really appreciate the best laps/high scores and game progress saves that are allowed and retained by making this an .atr based game/release.

 

Unless a custom cart were to be used, this wouldn't be possible with other non-writeable formats.  (Correct?)

Not sure what all reasons the creators had for going with .atr file for their game but that seems unimportant; anyway it's a moot point, the question and issue of doing things another way are academic now.  We have a wonderful and completely unique A8 racing game thanks to Fandal and Irgendwer and xxl.

 

And what about the super sweet loading screen for this disk based game?!?  We are entertained as SCR loads.  :grin:

 

I do not understand any of the complaints in this post...Stunt Car Racer is not true 3D...besides a VBXE demo, if even that, how can A8 possibly do true 3D?

Did people kvetch about true 3D graphics with Koronis Rift, Rescue at Fractalus or The Eidolon when those landmark A8 games were released? (I don't know maybe they did but you get my point, hopefully)  I would like to see an example of "true 3D" in any existing A8 game, during gameplay.  As this cannot be achieved on 16 bit hardware, I cannot see how it ever would/will on standard 8 bit hardware.

 

True 3D, depending on how that is defined and the hardware and software used to generate effects of "true 3D," can still be challenging to achieve with any computer/video game system; with rise of more sophisticated texture mapping in the later 80's and early 90's and other software techniques, as well as 3D specialized graphics processors/co-processors and chipset developments during this time period, true 3D has come a long way (since the days of 8 and 16 bit processors mostly "working unassisted" as it were).  Not sure about you all but to my eyes and brain some current PS4 and Xbox One true 3D titles still look odd at moments/times.  

 

It's quite literally a question of perspective.  True 3D -- not a wikipedia or other definition but just common, generally understood use of the term -- whether in film or on a computer/tv screen is really and always has been a question of the "eyes of the beholder."  There's the illusion of 3D created on a 2D plane (a little different with IMAX or curved screens but essential factors remain the same) done to varying degrees of success.

 

Also, Heisenberg's principle of uncertainty dictates that subjective experiences -- particularly in this case with the way the physics of light operate and how our human/animal eyes perceive that light and help translate perceived sensory perception into coherent images and fully developed perceptions or images in our brains -- will always be unique for all individuals.  For a few different reasons, everyone perceives 3D, "real," visualized third dimension visual experiences or 3D reproductions/facsimiles, a little differently.

 

Not sure if any of this makes sense but loading time and real/true 3D complaints seem to miss the point entirely: the greatness of what was done, not what others deem should have been done to make it better for them, their eyes and (sense of) perception.

 

"Chew, if only you could see what I've seen with your eyes..." Roy Batty in Blade Runner






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