peteym5 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) What Advance Dungeons and Dragons style Fantasy Role Playing Games had been done on the 8-bit? I had been going around and doing research on MS-DOS based Role Playing Games. Seen a few also been ported to the Commodore 64, Apple II, Atari ST, Amiga, but is another thing that had been skipped over with the Atari 8-bit. There is something called the Gold Series by SSI for PC DOS and "Dark Heart of Uukrul" by Brøderbund. These got my attention, but I am sure there are many others. I have been researching some of this stuff for improvements for Secretum Labyrinth. Video 61 suggested an ideal of the combat screen when you come upon enemies. However Secretum Labyrinth was never intended to be turned based what so-ever. It is more Zelda and 2600 Adventure inspired. I want to keep the top down view action adventure type game. Save turned based ideal for a different turn based RPG game. There are many types, action or turned based. 3D first person, top down, isometric, point of view. Ones I am speak of here are usually turned based, when doing combat, you are usually prompt where to move, attack, use spell or item, flee. Shows hitpoints of the characters in your party, hitpoints of the enemy(s). If you kill whatever, you get rewarded some experience points, if you get enough experience points, you can go up in skill level. I know a few the played non computer Advance Dungeon and Dragons game with cards, character sheets, fancy dice, and books, know all about this stuff. Books have tables and rules, and something that computers are great at handling. Books with Data Tables = great Database application. They really like seeing these games done on the computer. I know there also been stuff done in Basic, here, and on other platforms. Some RPGs done on other 6502 based machines, so these is a chance a few can be ported to our Atari 8-bit world. I can assist IF anybody else is up to the task, I have no intentions of doing more games all myself. I have no-intention to re-sale anything done by someone else unless I get permission or work with them. That is something someone needs to discuss to me through PM and Email. Some games have copy protection in the form pictures in books or with those decoder disk shape things. Might be collectors items. Some DOS games where hacked and pirated back in the day to get around this. Edited March 15, 2018 by peteym5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Thag Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 The Eternal Dagger and Wizard's Crown, both by SSI, were the (more complex) forerunners to the SSI gold box games. They basically just slapped the AD&D license on the engine, and simplified it. I'd love to see some of the Gold Box games get ported over to the 8-bit from the c64... but that's a LOT of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted March 15, 2018 Author Share Posted March 15, 2018 I should add that I am fully aware of games like Alternate Reality and Dungeon Hunt. Both games really well on the Atari 8-bit. If the programmers want to do more additions of their game, you have my blessing. The Eternal Dagger and Wizard's Crown, both by SSI, were the (more complex) forerunners to the SSI gold box games. They basically just slapped the AD&D license on the engine, and simplified it. I'd love to see some of the Gold Box games get ported over to the 8-bit from the c64... but that's a LOT of work. I know, but the are 6502 disassemblers that can give us a good start. Would need to read those Commodore formatted disk. Only issue I can see that is if the game is using intensive color mapping and colors represent something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 There are quite a few, I was a big fan of this genre in the 80s Ultima I-IV, Questron, Phantasie, Alternate Reality, Wizard's Crown, Eternal Dagger, Telengard, Apshai series No officially licensed AD&D games were ported Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Wizards crown and eternal dagger rock, same with Ultima. I am not aware of D&D games though (btw why?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) Oh yeah Phantasie series rock, too. Loved RPGs... Ah and I loved Ali Baba and the 40 thieves. Edited March 15, 2018 by Heaven/TQA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) It might be easier to start with a list of RPG games of that era that were not ported. Off the top of my head.. Bard's Tale Series Wizardry Series Ultima V Questron II SSI Gold Box games Adventure Construction Set - Don't know how much of an RPG this is, but it's one game that I really really wanted to see ported to Atari BITD Edited March 15, 2018 by zzip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted March 15, 2018 Author Share Posted March 15, 2018 Wizards crown and eternal dagger rock, same with Ultima. I am not aware of D&D games though (btw why?) I am using D&D as a reference to the style of the games I am looking for. There are a few that do not mention they are based on Dungeons and Dragons, but is obvious when you play them. There are games that use different character attributes, have less of them. When it comes to non-turned based action games, most of the attributes are usually eliminated. Really up to the creators to figure out what is useful and they usually want to be original so they can put a copyright on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 It might be easier to start with a list of RPG games of that era that were not ported. Off the top of my head.. Bard's Tale Series Wizardry Series Ultima V Questron II SSI Gold Box games Adventure Construction Set - Don't know how much of an RPG this is, but it's one game that I really really wanted to see ported to Atari BITD No adventure Construction set, but there was Adventure Creator that I had fun with before I got into Ultima, SSI RPG's and AR. Also Adventure Creation Kit by Antic software. http://www.atarimania.com/list_games_atari_search_65.100.118.101.110.116.117.114.101.32.67.114.101.97.116.111.114._8_G.html Maybe too primitive compared to others though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 It might be easier to start with a list of RPG games of that era that were not ported. Off the top of my head.. Bard's Tale Series Wizardry Series Ultima V Questron II SSI Gold Box games Adventure Construction Set - Don't know how much of an RPG this is, but it's one game that I really really wanted to see ported to Atari BITD None of the Gold Box games were ported ? I thought for sure I have a Pool Of Radiance diskette here somewhere, with a couple other gold box ones. I'll have to have a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted March 15, 2018 Author Share Posted March 15, 2018 It might be easier to start with a list of RPG games of that era that were not ported. Off the top of my head.. Bard's Tale Series Wizardry Series Ultima V Questron II SSI Gold Box games Adventure Construction Set - Don't know how much of an RPG this is, but it's one game that I really really wanted to see ported to Atari BITD A Bard's Tale series did come up in my research because when I was looking for music for "Secretum Labyrinth", "A Bard's Tale" ended up in my collection of music ported to RMT. Was used as an example of the music type I wanted for next "Secretum Labyrinth." Have to see if it is ok to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 No adventure Construction set, but there was Adventure Creator that I had fun with before I got into Ultima, SSI RPG's and AR. Also Adventure Creation Kit by Antic software. http://www.atarimania.com/list_games_atari_search_65.100.118.101.110.116.117.114.101.32.67.114.101.97.116.111.114._8_G.html Maybe too primitive compared to others though... A little off-topic, but anyways: Yes, I do like Adventure Creation Kit and have not only downloaded the first Kit, but also the second (enhanced) Kit and all levels that were released later for it. Think I changed the levels to my likings, alas, the Kit has two flaws: 1) you always have to load the Kit first, then manually load the first level and press "P" to play it (further levels will then be loaded automatically) and 2) once you found the three special items (axe, horse, boat) you own them for all levels, which makes gameplay too easy in later levels. It would be much better, if there were also a shortened "Game-Kit" available that only has the code to play the levels (so one could create an autoboot disk and the levels would be loaded automatically without user invention). Furthermore, it would be better if you would have to search the three items in every new level again, because otherwise all levels (except level 1) are much too easy. Back to topic: We do not have any Advanced Dungeons and Dragons game on the A8 afaik, there is only the game Dungeons, Dragons and other Perils, which has a similar name but nothing more. http://a8.fandal.cz/detail.php?files_id=3950 http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-dungeons-dragons-and-other-perils_1769.html It reminds me of the Dragon Quest game: http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-dragon-quest-314_1716.html http://a8.fandal.cz/detail.php?files_id=3953 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 No adventure Construction set, but there was Adventure Creator that I had fun with before I got into Ultima, SSI RPG's and AR. Also Adventure Creation Kit by Antic software. http://www.atarimania.com/list_games_atari_search_65.100.118.101.110.116.117.114.101.32.67.114.101.97.116.111.114._8_G.html Maybe too primitive compared to others though... Yeah I had the adventure creator cartridge, and it was fun for awhile, but I felt like the advertures it created were "too kiddie" or something. Adventure Construction Set looked so much more sophisticated. I say "looked" because I haven't really played it and maybe it was crap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) I don't think we had anyone hook up with with Lawless Legends? Edited March 15, 2018 by Wrathchild 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 A little off-topic, but anyways: Yes, I do like Adventure Creation Kit and have not only downloaded the first Kit, but also the second (enhanced) Kit and all levels that were released later for it. Think I changed the levels to my likings, alas, the Kit has two flaws: 1) you always have to load the Kit first, then manually load the first level and press "P" to play it (further levels will then be loaded automatically) and 2) once you found the three special items (axe, horse, boat) you own them for all levels, which makes gameplay too easy in later levels. It would be much better, if there were also a shortened "Game-Kit" available that only has the code to play the levels (so one could create an autoboot disk and the levels would be loaded automatically without user invention). Furthermore, it would be better if you would have to search the three items in every new level again, because otherwise all levels (except level 1) are much too easy. Back to topic: We do not have any Advanced Dungeons and Dragons game on the A8 afaik, there is only the game Dungeons, Dragons and other Perils, which has a similar name but nothing more. http://a8.fandal.cz/detail.php?files_id=3950 http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-dungeons-dragons-and-other-perils_1769.html It reminds me of the Dragon Quest game: http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-dragon-quest-314_1716.html http://a8.fandal.cz/detail.php?files_id=3953 Thanks for pointing these two titles out to me, I don't recall ever coming across these. A little older looking like Telengard, but I like those too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Old Bard's Tale related postWhich links to example binaries here and here Plus some thoughts from 2008 and wish to collaborate that year too (plus would be nice to solve the adding of colours to Lords Of Midnight!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 (edited) A little off-topic, but anyways: Yes, I do like Adventure Creation Kit and have not only downloaded the first Kit, but also the second (enhanced) Kit and all levels that were released later for it. Think I changed the levels to my likings, alas, the Kit has two flaws: 1) you always have to load the Kit first, then manually load the first level and press "P" to play it (further levels will then be loaded automatically) and 2) once you found the three special items (axe, horse, boat) you own them for all levels, which makes gameplay too easy in later levels. It would be much better, if there were also a shortened "Game-Kit" available that only has the code to play the levels (so one could create an autoboot disk and the levels would be loaded automatically without user invention). Furthermore, it would be better if you would have to search the three items in every new level again, because otherwise all levels (except level 1) are much too easy. Back to topic: We do not have any Advanced Dungeons and Dragons game on the A8 afaik, there is only the game Dungeons, Dragons and other Perils, which has a similar name but nothing more. http://a8.fandal.cz/detail.php?files_id=3950 http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-dungeons-dragons-and-other-perils_1769.html It reminds me of the Dragon Quest game: http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-dragon-quest-314_1716.html http://a8.fandal.cz/detail.php?files_id=3953 I will need to go and check those out. See if any of them are like what I have in mind. I don't think we had anyone hook up with with Lawless Legends? OK, it is Apple II source code. Should not be too hard to port to the 8-bit. Has anyone done any work on it? Old Bard's Tale related post Which links to example binaries here and here Plus some thoughts from 2008 and wish to collaborate that year too (plus would be nice to solve the adding of colours to Lords Of Midnight!) I see a few images had been ported and put into a cartridge ROM. Has any of the game program itself been done so far? Would a program like inflate help pack more images onto a 64K cartridge. Most of these RPG games probably cannot be loaded into RAM all at once. Probably need to load files from disk, or come from a cartridge ROM. When I do projects with Mads Assembler, I include assembler directives for both. Disks can be a multidisk game, but I would not go beyond two disks. Can go up to a 1024K AtariMax cartridge also. XEGS if you want to go through someone like Albert or Lance. As for doing something for a collectors item, I would go with cartridge because they last much longer. Plus access time is almost instant. I even got deflate to work much faster. Maybe reprint the manuals. Edited March 16, 2018 by peteym5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swami Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 What Advance Dungeons and Dragons style Fantasy Role Playing Games had been done on the 8-bit? I had been going around and doing research on MS-DOS based Role Playing Games. Seen a few also been ported to the Commodore 64, Apple II, Atari ST, Amiga, but is another thing that had been skipped over with the Atari 8-bit. There is something called the Gold Series by SSI for PC DOS and "Dark Heart of Uukrul" by Brøderbund. These got my attention, but I am sure there are many others. I have been researching some of this stuff for improvements for Secretum Labyrinth. Video 61 suggested an ideal of the combat screen when you come upon enemies. However Secretum Labyrinth was never intended to be turned based what so-ever. It is more Zelda and 2600 Adventure inspired. I want to keep the top down view action adventure type game. Save turned based ideal for a different turn based RPG game. There are many types, action or turned based. 3D first person, top down, isometric, point of view. Ones I am speak of here are usually turned based, when doing combat, you are usually prompt where to move, attack, use spell or item, flee. Shows hitpoints of the characters in your party, hitpoints of the enemy(s). If you kill whatever, you get rewarded some experience points, if you get enough experience points, you can go up in skill level. I know a few the played non computer Advance Dungeon and Dragons game with cards, character sheets, fancy dice, and books, know all about this stuff. Books have tables and rules, and something that computers are great at handling. Books with Data Tables = great Database application. They really like seeing these games done on the computer. I know there also been stuff done in Basic, here, and on other platforms. Some RPGs done on other 6502 based machines, so these is a chance a few can be ported to our Atari 8-bit world. I can assist IF anybody else is up to the task, I have no intentions of doing more games all myself. I have no-intention to re-sale anything done by someone else unless I get permission or work with them. That is something someone needs to discuss to me through PM and Email. Some games have copy protection in the form pictures in books or with those decoder disk shape things. Might be collectors items. Some DOS games where hacked and pirated back in the day to get around this. AD&D on intellivision had little to do with D&D rules or settings. The first TSR licensed games to follow D&D rules were Forgotten Realms: Gold Box Pool of Radiance (1988) and Hillsfar (1989), for NES, PC and some other home computers as well, including Atari ST, by SSI and Westwood Studios, both of which also released more Home computer D&D games as well as Sega CD, SNES,TurboGrafx16 and Genesis platform releases by WWS until 1992. You can see the rest of the TSR licensed games afterwards here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dungeons_%26_Dragons_video_games There may possibly be a couple errors in the list, but you get the idea from the article and its links. Seems TSR and/or Atari preferred only using the Atari ST platform for Atari releases, probably due to the greater 16-bit tech and wanting to spotlight the new ST over the older A8 line. The Jaguar may have been competetive with the ST capability but was not doing well with licensing. I would like to see some of the early ST/NES/SNES-style games ported to A8s and maybe ColecoVision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 (edited) Most of the Advance Dungeons and Dragons style computer games fall into a pattern with the displays. When exploring. There is a window with the members of the party with some numbers or bars next to each one, indicating hit points. Skill Level, Status, etc. Then a small graphics window showing the world. A Message Window on the side or below. Can bring up character detail screens showing Charisma, max hitpoints, Dexterity, IQ, and other attributes. When comes to encounter something you engage combat with, it switches to a combat screen. Then follows that turn based AD&D rules prompting what you like to do. For the Atari, we can put together a simple text screen with redefined font to split the screen into sections. We certainly have a choice of graphics and software driven modes. Can split graphics and text modes. Have Antic 2/3 modes above and/or below a graphics area. There are some good 3D "engines" done for the 8-bit that can be used for the dungeon exploration including. Numen, Project M, or what Dungeon Hunt uses. It is really up to the programmers if they want to share any of these engines because they have their own proprietary rights over them. Can start up an engine to make something similar to what we see with Uukrul or the SSI Gold Series. Anything that an author creates on their own is their own copyright and is up to them how they will want to distribute, rather if it is free download, pay-per-download, floppy disk, or cartridge. I not only like seeing some stuff ported to the 8-bit, but like to see if anyone can do something original. My Secretum Labyrinth Adventure engine uses a top-down room by room view and there are no separate modes between exploring and combat. Only pauses when big text window split is on screen. It is my decision to keep anything under the Secretum Labyrinth banner as non-turn based action games. It would need some rework to be ported into a AD&D style turn based and I will like to give it a new name. Edited March 16, 2018 by peteym5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzip Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Another popular RPG game I forgot about: Dungeon Master + Chaos Strikes Back from FTL Seems like this game was designed to take advantage of the 16-bit color palettes and GUI features, so it would be interesting to see what could be done on an 8-bit with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 ... Has any of the game program itself been done so far? Would a program like inflate help pack more images onto a 64K cartridge. A lot of those graphics are help in a GIF-like format in the original game and so unpacked at runtime anyway (hence they'd include the animation frames as a form of 'diff' I think, but that wasn't included in the tile demo). In terms of the code, none has been ported but examine some of the game code shows it to be quite cleanly implemented and so porting shouldn't pose many problems. What was interesting is that it uses overlays and these might well have been generated / compiled from scripts Space wise, I'd say you'd need > 256K based on the C64 disk content. So that would mean an AtariMax 8Mbit board with maybe one 4Mbit (512KB) eeprom for code/data and then the second slot could have a 1Mbit (128K) eeprom for saves which is overkill but not cost prohibitive, or not have it and use save to disk instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrathchild Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Another popular RPG game I forgot about: Dungeon Master + Chaos Strikes Back from FTL Seems like this game was designed to take advantage of the 16-bit color palettes and GUI features, so it would be interesting to see what could be done on an 8-bit with it. Tezz / Vega / Miker (and others?) were looking at that with Dungeon Monster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 I don't think we had anyone hook up with with Lawless Legends? I did a quick look at Lawless Legends Source. They have Commodore 64 and Apple II source code. Might be possible for someone to make an Atari 8-bit port. If someone has not started one already. I am personally too tied up on several Atari 8-bit and 7800 projects. As many do know, I usually see game projects through until they are released on cartridge. I am trying my best not to just until new stuff until other stuff is done. What I do is make up a short to do list for each game project and remove items as they get done. I am not faulting anybody for this, but I do see many ongoing projects on here that go on for years that had not been completed and release. Best thing to do is know your limits based on how much time you can spend doing this, try not to do too many games at once. Resist temptation to get dragged into more game projects. I know there certainly is a number of game projects I want to do, but I simply can't do all them. Now I am not sure what compiler this project has to use. I am strictly familar with MADs ASSEMBLER. Someone will need to port it to using that before I can do anything with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 I should add before I go off to work today and won't respond until I get home. If you look at the credit screen of many of those games, there are several names listed. No one person put those games together, it took a team of people to make those games happen. If something like that is to happen here on the Atari, it may take several people to put stuff together, along with making use of pieces of existing source code. They either require team work or it will be just another posted game project that may or may not get finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FifthPlayer Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 AD&D on intellivision had little to do with D&D rules or settings. However, it was a very nice rogue-like dungeon crawling game that was fun to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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