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Top Games You'd Like to Have for Atari 8-Bits


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#276 MrFish ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:34 PM

As long as it's clear image I can extract info about mask and pm part. Anything that I can make sense of (what is background, black as mask, couple colors for pm).

I can make masking part as soft sprite, and add PM where needed.

 

Something like this (just dozen of different ones  ;) ):

 

attachicon.gifairplane_1943_large.png

 

I sent you a PM (with P/M's included). ;)



#277 Sheddy ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:32 AM

If you want to have 50 lines vertically scrolled in a second, you had to update all Softwaresprites with 50fps, independent of the speed of the moving objects, to prevent
twitching of the moving objects.


Yes, it might not look too bad jumping 2 lines at 25fps, but wont be the smoothest. This is why VladR suggested it'd be better for slower games.

#278 emkay OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:18 PM

Yes, it might not look too bad jumping 2 lines at 25fps, but wont be the smoothest. This is why VladR suggested it'd be better for slower games.


And that will exclude 1942. Everything is fast there.

#279 Sheddy ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:02 PM

The scrolling is not that fast though. Sure, sprites would be better at 50fps, but 25fps is probably good enough as long as the collissions are fair.

#280 emkay OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:24 PM

The scrolling is not that fast though. Sure, sprites would be better at 50fps, but 25fps is probably good enough as long as the collissions are fair.



25 fps Scrolling means all softwareprites have to be handled with 25 fps .
You know, what makes me wonder?
Above , you see some mockups, using both : Software Sprites and PM Multiplexer.
What's so hard to create the background with any double scanline mode, and to fill the moving objects and possible details with PM Graphics? This would solve a lot of speed problems, and would look great.

#281 MrFish ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:48 PM

You know, what makes me wonder?
Above , you see some mockups, using both : Software Sprites and PM Multiplexer.
What's so hard to create the background with any double scanline mode, and to fill the moving objects and possible details with PM Graphics? This would solve a lot of speed problems, and would look great.

 

It's a possible option. I don't have anything against using lower-res modes when needed.



#282 Sheddy ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:32 PM

25 fps Scrolling means all softwareprites have to be handled with 25 fps .


Not really. A very slow scrolling screen can still have fast softwaresprites. Not the other away round though.

It'd be interesting to see how fast it can be without dropping vertical resolution.

#283 MrFish ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:11 PM

It'd be interesting to see how fast it can be without dropping vertical resolution.

 

Definitely.



#284 emkay OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:29 AM

Not really. A very slow scrolling screen can still have fast softwaresprites. Not the other away round though.


At the end, the objects jump over several scanlines using an even lesser approach of movement details.
Ground-Stations just don't need extra movement.

It'd be interesting to see how fast it can be without dropping vertical resolution.


Unplayable slow at even a lesser horizontal resolution, or far too less moving objects...
We have a gazillion indicators available for that.
Look at Popmilo's Software Sprite demo. Simple repeating graphics, all is preshifted already, all objects have the same size, use same data....
There are 14 of them. In a game, you possibly could get 7 objects running smoothly. And then you want to add the PM multiplexer, showing detailed objects?
Remember, Prince of Persia only has 2 Objects that needed to be animated.... where is it?
Or, how about Zybex. The coder putted the bonusses directly to the background. And this is Gr. 7 already, with no special PM overlay.
Heck, it would have been even easier to create a space invaders game with special multiplexed PM underlay for a graphical enhancement, as the Game uses the background plus scrolling for the Attack waves.....

#285 TMR OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:43 AM

Or, how about Zybex. The coder putted the bonusses directly to the background.


Not disagreeing with the sentiment of the post here, but the bonus items in Zybex are still running as software sprites and just matching the background scroll's speed; i haven't checked the code, but my assumption is that they take over the destroyed enemy's software sprite once it's stopped being an explosion (so aren't using any extra sprite handling after what's already running for the enemies) and clip off at the left edge like the other software sprites do.

#286 Sheddy ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:02 AM

At the end, the objects jump over several scanlines using an even lesser approach of movement details.
Ground-Stations just don't need extra movement.


Unplayable slow at even a lesser horizontal resolution, or far too less moving objects...
We have a gazillion indicators available for that.
Look at Popmilo's Software Sprite demo. Simple repeating graphics, all is preshifted already, all objects have the same size, use same data....
There are 14 of them. In a game, you possibly could get 7 objects running smoothly. And then you want to add the PM multiplexer, showing detailed objects?
Remember, Prince of Persia only has 2 Objects that needed to be animated.... where is it?
Or, how about Zybex. The coder putted the bonusses directly to the background. And this is Gr. 7 already, with no special PM overlay.
Heck, it would have been even easier to create a space invaders game with special multiplexed PM underlay for a graphical enhancement, as the Game uses the background plus scrolling for the Attack waves.....

14 at 25fps may be enough. Slower than that and I agree dropping vertical resolution makes a lot of sense :)

#287 NRV OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:51 PM

What?, Why??

Never knew that Mario did the pitfall/spelunker thing..
That, or drugs are bad when trying to port a game.



Out of jokes, I think it's surprising that for any old game that I search, no matter how obscure, the Nes seems to have a port of it..

#288 carlsson OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:37 PM

The Famicom never was locked in the same way the NES was, so anyone and their dog could release games in Japan. Not totally unlike the situation for the Atari 2600, except that perhaps the lowest level of crap was a tad higher in Japan so the console never was as tainted and didn't cause a second crash. So many of the obscure games you find probably are Famicom games, which can be made to run on the NES since it has the same hardware.

 

By the way, check how Boulder Dash was Japanified for the NES and also check how different Miner 2049er looks on the likewise Japanese console Epoch Super Cassette Vision. The latter doesn't seem to have reached the Famicom but apparently got licensed for the SCV.

 

0010.png

 

Boulder Dash for the SCV:

672495-boulder-dash-epoch-super-cassette


Edited by carlsson, Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:40 PM.


#289 Grevle OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:20 PM

Would like to see these games on A8:

 

 

1 - Moon Cresta  -  Wasn't this under development ?

2 - Scramble - Maybe someone can use the Super Cobra engine and make a proper A8 Scramble port ?

 

3 - Moonstone. (Amiga Game) I wonder how a A8 port could be like ? would be interesting to see.

 

4 - Legend of hero tonma - Arcade platfomer. 

 

5 - Space Invaders Arcade Port. A8 already have many Space Invaders, Best one is probably Deluxe Invaders, But its not exactly a true arcade port.



#290 popmilo OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:02 AM

Would like to see these games on A8:

 

3 - Moonstone. (Amiga Game) I wonder how a A8 port could be like ? would be interesting to see.

4 - Legend of hero tonma - Arcade platfomer. 

5 - Space Invaders Arcade Port. A8 already have many Space Invaders, Best one is probably Deluxe Invaders, But its not exactly a true arcade port.

Wow, those are some nice suggestions Grevie !

Moonstone - not impossible. Doesn't need lot of colors and has no important background. Would demand just a lot of space on cart or disk for all that gfx.

Legend of hero Tonma - one of my favorite Arcade games. I'm afraid all those small details like coins etc would be very hard to do. Rest is "just a platform game" so possible in some form...

Space invaders arcade - awesome game with lots of cute details. C64 version wasn't bad at all, but relied massively on hardware sprites. A8 version belongs in category of "galaga" problem imho. How to make all those sprites move quickly enough and make it look good.



#291 MrFish ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:07 AM

Worked on the island graphics today, and it's a good thing I did, because

the 5th color is a necessity for rendering a decent island; and when the

5th color is used extensively, there is no way to use dark masks without

excessive conflict between the 4th and 5th colors.

 

Also -- not that it's relevant at this point, but -- the masks would have

needed to change from black to dark green when the islands were

present, which would have been an odd thing in the middle of the game.

 

So, the only viable solution -- if masks would be used at all -- is to use the

blue background color. This doesn't look as dramatic as the black, but it

does keep things clear around the P/M's, and it's an interesting overall

look in comparison to what's been shown so far.

 

Here's with and without for comparison.

 

Blue Masks

 

islandbmask.png

 

shipbmask.png

 

 

No Masks

 

islandnomask.png

 

shipnomask.png

 


Edited by MrFish, Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:30 AM.


#292 Tickled_Pink OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:51 AM

The original Xenon. I made a mockup of the graphics many years ago using a simple Basic pixel plotter I wrote. Took a while.

Um ... isn't there already a 1942-style game for the Atari? Screaming Wings?

#293 Level42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:56 AM

Yep.......but that's not one of the best arcade ports for the A8.

 

 

 

 

Even so....I played it quite a bit....it's not terrible, but MrFish's 194X looks a lot better already :)


Edited by Level42, Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:58 AM.


#294 Tezz OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:37 AM

...the only viable solution -- if masks would be used at all -- is to use the blue background color. This doesn't look as dramatic as the black, but it does keep things clear around the P/M's, and it's an interesting overall look in comparison to what's been shown so far.

Looks best IMO with the blue mask or without the mask at all. Nice pixeling.



#295 popmilo OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:39 AM

Worked on the island graphics today, and it's a good thing I did, because

the 5th color is a necessity for rendering a decent island; and when the

5th color is used extensively, there is no way to use dark masks without

excessive conflict between the 4th and 5th colors.

 

Also -- not that it's relevant at this point, but -- the masks would have

needed to change from black to dark green when the islands were

present, which would have been an odd thing in the middle of the game.

 

So, the only viable solution -- if masks would be used at all -- is to use the

blue background color. This doesn't look as dramatic as the black, but it

does keep things clear around the P/M's, and it's an interesting overall

look in comparison to what's been shown so far.

Damn, that looks mighty impressive !
 

Looks great!



#296 Tezz OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:39 AM

5 - Space Invaders Arcade Port. A8 already have many Space Invaders, Best one is probably Deluxe Invaders, But its not exactly a true arcade port.

Space Invaders Arcade is on my to-do list.



#297 Level42 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:52 AM

I's say Blue masks looks best. Arcade doesn't have masks as far as I can see, but the blue one's seem to enhance the feeling of "depth". 

 

Not sure how it will look moving though...



#298 FifthPlayer OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:17 AM

The blue masks do offset the sprites from the background and make them "pop" a bit more.  I like them.



#299 MrFish ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:34 AM

Um ... isn't there already a 1942-style game for the Atari? Screaming Wings?

 

Yep.......but that's not one of the best arcade ports for the A8.

 

Even so....I played it quite a bit....it's not terrible, but MrFish's 194X looks a lot better already :)

 

Yeah, it's not bad at all. A fun budget title that captures some of the essence of 1942;

but ultimately it falls quite short of the original, and has some glaring deficiencies in

gameplay and graphics.

 

Gameplay isn't bad, but it becomes predictable and is much simplified compared to

1942. If gameplay were better I'd probably just hack the graphics for it instead.


Edited by MrFish, Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:39 AM.


#300 NRV OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:01 AM

That island deserves its own game x)
I think you should test how it looks while moving, maybe an animated gif could be enough to see if there is any unanticipated "weirdness" going on..
But at least the bullets should use the mask, they look a lot better that way.. and they are small, so the rendering cost should be low.

Now.. if Popmilo's test don't appear soon enough, someone else could be tempted to do them :P




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