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Top Games You'd Like to Have for Atari 8-Bits


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#326 emkay OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:05 PM

And some explanation. The Demo uses scrolling, which means a lot of cpu cycles lost by DMA.
The PMg shows 20 3 color objects, multiplexed PMg, which means 40 moving objects by PMg .
In parallel it shows up to 14 ? software sprites, AND it multiplexes a starfield in the background.

Popmilo's demonstrations show just a static screen and fluent movement is shown with 6 objects.

In clear words: Double scanline modes were not just a "little" better. It's like to speed the Atari up to 3 times. And there is no need for any discussion ;)

#327 TMR OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:18 AM

And some explanation. The Demo uses scrolling, which means a lot of cpu cycles lost by DMA.


I haven't looked at the actual code, but because it only scrolls the landscape above and below the software sprites - sort of like how Matta Blatta is doing things - rather than beneath them I'd assume it's just done with characters and one LMS per scape which wouldn't steal anything extra on the DMA front.
 

Popmilo's demonstrations show just a static screen and fluent movement is shown with 6 objects.


But his software sprites are rendered over a background which isn't happening in the demo so you're pretty much comparing apples to oranges here...

#328 emkay OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:28 AM

But his software sprites are rendered over a background which isn't happening in the demo so you're pretty much comparing apples to oranges here...


Yeah, apples and oranges... The "Sprites" in the video were all animated.
Also, Popmilo's demo uses a character mode, where the double scanline character mode won't speed up things that much.

It's just a simple answer in that: If people allow any double scanline mode for the games, everything is possible. Also all games of this thread.

Edited by emkay, Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:29 AM.


#329 popmilo OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:09 PM

But his software sprites are rendered over a background which isn't happening in the demo so you're pretty much comparing apples to oranges here...

Yes. That's impressive demo. On the other hand my goal was not number of sprites or speed. It was how to make sprites that behave and look almost like real hardware sprites. Something universal that can be used in hundred games and not just single kind of shooter game.

 

Of course double scanline modes will be faster. There's less bytes to erase, shift, draw...

 

So here are examples with doubled scanlines.

 

24_sprites_25_fps.png

 

12 sprites running in 50fps:

Attached File  char_sprites12_50fps.xex   16.72KB   31 downloads

 

24 sprites running in 25fps:

Attached File  char_sprites24_25fps.xex   17.25KB   33 downloads

 

12:6 and 24:14 is a decent speed up imho.



#330 Stephen OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:31 PM

Yes. That's impressive demo. On the other hand my goal was not number of sprites or speed. It was how to make sprites that behave and look almost like real hardware sprites. Something universal that can be used in hundred games and not just single kind of shooter game.

 

Of course double scanline modes will be faster. There's less bytes to erase, shift, draw...

 

So here are examples with doubled scanlines.

 

attachicon.gif24_sprites_25_fps.png

 

12 sprites running in 50fps:

attachicon.gifchar_sprites12_50fps.xex

 

24 sprites running in 25fps:

attachicon.gifchar_sprites24_25fps.xex

 

12:6 and 24:14 is a decent speed up imho.

Are you sure that the demo with 24 is running at 25fps?  I ran both side by side, and the demo with 12 sprites completes 4 loops in the time the other completes one (2.5 seconds vs 10 seconds).  Not criticizing - it's a very cool sprite engine you have created.



#331 popmilo OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:48 PM

Are you sure that the demo with 24 is running at 25fps?  I ran both side by side, and the demo with 12 sprites completes 4 loops in the time the other completes one (2.5 seconds vs 10 seconds).  Not criticizing - it's a very cool sprite engine you have created.

2.5s vs 10s sounds just about right.

Demo with more sprites uses smaller step around the cirlce path, so it's twice slower. Multiply that with 2 frames to draw vs 1 frame and you've got your 1:4 ration of speed.

 

ps. I wanted to show how smooth sprites can move in 25fps. This test was originally for a football game prototype. I have some nice 8x8 pixel footy players around here. Should be fun to put them on screen and make them run around :)



#332 Philsan OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:53 PM

This test was originally for a football game prototype. I have some nice 8x8 pixel footy players around here. Should be fun to put them on screen and make them run around :)

Soccer?

Please do it!



#333 popmilo OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:45 PM

Soccer?

Please do it!

You mean like this ? ;)

 

soccer.png

 

Attached File  soccer.xex   17.25KB   37 downloads



#334 Philsan OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:07 PM

:lust:  :lust:



#335 carlsson OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:27 PM

Make the background white, put the players in cute dresses and skates on their feet, and you might be working on a game about synchronized ice skating!



#336 Wrathchild ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:39 PM

Or a Premier League sim... leave them in trunks and watch them dive :D



#337 emkay OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:32 PM

So here are examples with doubled scanlines.


If someone was doing a demonstration of synchronized players over double scanline software sprites, showing more colors and details. Possibly others would understand ;)

#338 MrFish OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:42 PM

Another example of what masking can do for P/M's. Suddenly, single-color P/M's don't look too bad.

 

qbertscaled.png

 

qbert1scaled.png

 



#339 popmilo OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:57 PM

Another example of what masking can do for P/M's. Suddenly, single-color P/M's don't look too bad.

 

attachicon.gifqbertscaled.png

 

attachicon.gifqbert1scaled.png

 

Yeah :)
For example players become 10 pixels wide just like that ;)



#340 Level42 ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:15 PM

Another example of what masking can do for P/M's. Suddenly, single-color P/M's don't look too bad.

 

attachicon.gifqbertscaled.png

 

attachicon.gifqbert1scaled.png

 

 

Me want !



#341 MrFish OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:17 PM

Yeah :)
For example players become 10 pixels wide just like that ;)

 

Kind of.



#342 Level42 ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:24 PM

Hey look!  We actually have Galaga and Exerion on the Atari computer!  And an improved version of Galaxian.

 

Why anyone wants to misrepresent the actual system these games are on, no idea.  Actual system is a NES.

 

 

 

Well, I'd kill for a Galaxian that good on the A8....






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