Gamer888 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Hi all! First I hope my topic is at the good place since my question is somehow basic. Here is my story. I live in Europe, France actually. I use a LCD 720p screen TV for all my gaming (mostly US or japanese systems) and all work great on it despite some quality loss because of the LCD screen not being fitted for say a genesis. I managed to get a hold of a good old 1990s TV, they type of small TV all teenagers had in their room. It is 60hz compatible and I could play say my Pc-FX with no slowdown, no bars, no nothing...but being what it seems PAL only, the picture is in black and white. The only input is a scart one so when I plug my genesis via scart RGB it is in color but when I play the pc-fx or the pc engine with composite (on a scart plug), it is in black and white. IS there a device where I could plug the pc engine, the pc engine and maybe a famicom so the screen will display the games in colors?Something that will transform NTSC signals into PAL or something like this?I saw a few gadgets online but not sure how good they are, whether they can be trusted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
universal2600 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) Yeah youd have to get an encoder box that takes the ntsc/pal (and secam for France and Slavic regions) and spits out pal or ntsc They cost upwards from around $25 usd: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41gSDJLlT6L._SL500_AC_SS350_.jpg Just search for a ntsc to pal converter they're pretty common (be sure that the tv IS PAL and not secam, secam and pal60 are less common standards(well if you didn't grow up in France, brazil or former ussr) Edited April 5, 2018 by universal2600 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer888 Posted April 5, 2018 Author Share Posted April 5, 2018 I checked those..in Europe they are around 16 euros. But it seems a bit too easy..not saying the more expensive the better but it looks cheap for something that changes the actual standard of a media (sort of). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
universal2600 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 I checked those..in Europe they are around 16 euros. But it seems a bit too easy..not saying the more expensive the better but it looks cheap for something that changes the actual standard of a media (sort of). 16 euros sounds right, about $20usd, and its a just a converter they aren't that expensive and while you can spend 40+ euro, simply for older retro hardware, you shouldn't need to spend that much, since you're dealing with usually less than 480/576 lines of resolution so there shouldn't be latency issues which would be the big issue, I would say find something that's in your price range, but I wouldn't pay more than 25 euro ($30usd) in my honest opinion......but yeah a ntsc to pal converter box should allow you to use ntsc composite on a pal display with color intact (it decodes the ntsc signal and re-encodes it into a pal signal or vice versa) they've been around for years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer888 Posted April 5, 2018 Author Share Posted April 5, 2018 ok thanks, Maybe I am lagging a few years behind such convertor!Will definitely consider it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erichenneke Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 I just purchased one of these off Amazon and tested it out today. It was cheap ($15 USD including shipped) so I figured worth a try. Unfortunately it seems like it really was "too good to be true". I am trying to use a PAL Atari 800XL computer on an NTSC TV. WithOUT the converter, I get a nice crisp black and white picture (as would be expected plugging a PAL device into an NTSC TV). WITH the converter, it seems to "partially work". It is still a good picture and the left side of the screen has the proper colors (the default blue with white text on Atari 8-bit computers). But the right side of the screen is red ! So this won't due. Attaching a couple pics. i know in the picture the screen looks really fuzzy but that's just in the photo. The TV image is actually pretty crisp in real life, but the color is just all screwed up. Let me know if you have any suggestions before I send this things back. -Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
universal2600 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 (edited) I just purchased one of these off Amazon and tested it out today. It was cheap ($15 USD including shipped) so I figured worth a try. Unfortunately it seems like it really was "too good to be true". I am trying to use a PAL Atari 800XL computer on an NTSC TV. WithOUT the converter, I get a nice crisp black and white picture (as would be expected plugging a PAL device into an NTSC TV). WITH the converter, it seems to "partially work". It is still a good picture and the left side of the screen has the proper colors (the default blue with white text on Atari 8-bit computers). But the right side of the screen is red ! So this won't due. Attaching a couple pics. i know in the picture the screen looks really fuzzy but that's just in the photo. The TV image is actually pretty crisp in real life, but the color is just all screwed up. Let me know if you have any suggestions before I send this things back. -Eric Hmm interesting, I would try different TVs as it may be defective, if you can get a refund go ahead while you can....I would also test NTSC to pal, but it does prove that these may work or may not...I personally never had to use these since I have an old school Hitachi CRT that was multisystem and LCDs here are all multisystem anyway (afaik multisystem CRTs are pretty uncommon in the USA as the Hitachi came from Germany around '89 ) maybe someone with a bit more experience can chip in here Edited April 24, 2018 by universal2600 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 I just purchased one of these off Amazon and tested it out today. It was cheap ($15 USD including shipped) so I figured worth a try. Unfortunately it seems like it really was "too good to be true". I am trying to use a PAL Atari 800XL computer on an NTSC TV. WithOUT the converter, I get a nice crisp black and white picture (as would be expected plugging a PAL device into an NTSC TV). WITH the converter, it seems to "partially work". It is still a good picture and the left side of the screen has the proper colors (the default blue with white text on Atari 8-bit computers). But the right side of the screen is red ! So this won't due. Attaching a couple pics. i know in the picture the screen looks really fuzzy but that's just in the photo. The TV image is actually pretty crisp in real life, but the color is just all screwed up. Let me know if you have any suggestions before I send this things back. -Eric The colorburst on the console does not align with the colorburst frequency on the converter, or the converter and the TV do not align. Chances are the console and TV are good but the converter has a timing crystal that is severely out of tolerance. A few fractions of a percent is more than enough to desync the colors. Fun fact, there was a "rainbow PONG" unit that deliberately skewed the colorburst frequency on NTSC TVs to give the illusion of a rainbow effect from one side of the screen to the other, adding color to what at the time were strictly black and white plug and play devices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer888 Posted April 24, 2018 Author Share Posted April 24, 2018 I just purchased one of these off Amazon and tested it out today. It was cheap ($15 USD including shipped) so I figured worth a try. Unfortunately it seems like it really was "too good to be true". I am trying to use a PAL Atari 800XL computer on an NTSC TV. WithOUT the converter, I get a nice crisp black and white picture (as would be expected plugging a PAL device into an NTSC TV). WITH the converter, it seems to "partially work". It is still a good picture and the left side of the screen has the proper colors (the default blue with white text on Atari 8-bit computers). But the right side of the screen is red ! So this won't due. Attaching a couple pics. i know in the picture the screen looks really fuzzy but that's just in the photo. The TV image is actually pretty crisp in real life, but the color is just all screwed up. Let me know if you have any suggestions before I send this things back. -Eric This is the thing, it looks too cheap for the required work..maybe aiming for devices built in say 2000 would be better. As to provide you any help, I can't say. Trying with another TV would be good but I have the feeling the convertor, rather than the TV is to blame. I have read a few reviews on these and overall....customers are not that happy about it. Maybe they are not designed for gaming? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
universal2600 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 The colorburst on the console does not align with the colorburst frequency on the converter, or the converter and the TV do not align. Chances are the console and TV are good but the converter has a timing crystal that is severely out of tolerance. A few fractions of a percent is more than enough to desync the colors. Fun fact, there was a "rainbow PONG" unit that deliberately skewed the colorburst frequency on NTSC TVs to give the illusion of a rainbow effect from one side of the screen to the other, adding color to what at the time were strictly black and white plug and play devices. I would assume using a higher quality quartz could solve this? That is if this has an accessible crystal inside it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 I would assume using a higher quality quartz could solve this? That is if this has an accessible crystal inside it.... I would just cut my losses and buy a better device. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
universal2600 Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 (edited) I would just cut my losses and buy a better device.Meh Either way it's only $15, but I can't say how exactly this specific one is meant to work, IMHO it might be intended for an LCD....afaik in my experiences LCDs tend to be more forgiving on signal tolerances, but most modern LCD are multisystem..well since the op is using an LCD he might as well then just convert it to hd720 https://www.ebay.com/itm/E-SDS-High-Definition-720P-1080P-Mini-AV-Composite-Video-Audio-RCA-CVBS-to-HDMI/332599122082?epid=1371437246&hash=item4d7073d8a2:g:CsQAAOSw8D1auX6t Edited April 24, 2018 by universal2600 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 Meh Either way it's only $15, but I can't say how exactly this specific one is meant to work, IMHO it might be intended for an LCD....afaik in my experiences LCDs tend to be more forgiving on signal tolerances, but most modern LCD are multisystem..well since the op is using an LCD he might as well then just convert it to hd720 https://www.ebay.com/itm/E-SDS-High-Definition-720P-1080P-Mini-AV-Composite-Video-Audio-RCA-CVBS-to-HDMI/332599122082?epid=1371437246&hash=item4d7073d8a2:g:CsQAAOSw8D1auX6t s-l400 (1).jpg A lot of cheap HDMI converters support both PAL and NTSC input signals. I'm not entirely sure how they'd handle PAL60 though. Also most of them don't offer a pillarbox option for legacy inputs, so you might have to put up with a stretched screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erichenneke Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 Thanks for all the feedback. I am definitely going to keep hunting for a better TV solution that can preferably do both PAL and NTSC, or I might just wind up with 2 separate CRT monitors in the end. I just figured this thing was so cheap it was worth a try. I guess you get what you pay for. -Eric 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
universal2600 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 (edited) Thanks for all therefore feedback. I am definitely going to keep hunting for a better TV solution that can preferably do both PAL and NTSC, or I might just wind up with 2 separate CRT monitors in the end. I just figured this thing was so cheap it was worth a try. I guess you get what you pay for. -Eric If I may recommend a CRT: Hitachi cmt2928PXSupports NTSC, PAL, SECAM, 100v-280v, 2x composite av, 1 svideo, 1x composite av output (lovely for using a capture card lol) plus it has the svideo and one composite input also fed through the front....dunno how many of these are out there or the prices, good picture and small for its size and has more bassy/warm sound compared to the HDTV that replaced it... Can't find this TV online other than replacement remotes a bit sad for how good it is so I guess it could be scarce.... Edited April 25, 2018 by universal2600 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
universal2600 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 If I may recommend a CRT: Hitachi cmt2928PX Supports NTSC, PAL, SECAM, 100v-280v, 2x composite av, 1 svideo, 1x composite av output (lovely for using a capture card lol) plus it has the svideo and one composite input also fed through the front....dunno how many of these are out there or the prices, good picture and small for its size and has more bassy/warm sound compared to the HDTV that replaced it... Can't find this TV online other than replacement remotes a bit sad for how good it is so I guess it could be scarce.... IMG_20180425_164340.jpgIMG_20180425_164358.jpg A bit more information about that CRT: This TV was not sold in the US market (unfortunately) so for the OP and anyone in European markets will probably be More likely to come across one of these, plus I don't know if this specific model is unique to American outposts (it was bought from a American base/post exchange in Germany, it's also referred to as the BX/PX..), this tv was also serviced years ago locally, iirc picture had problems, it needed some adjustments done, but there are no pots on the back to adjust, with this tv you do adjustments through the remote ( Or a service remote? vhold, tint, h pos, etc), so you if you do find this TV you may want to have the original remote, also without it you can't change inputs (universal remotes will work but not for the adjustments afaik) This the remote I had for it, it also was used with a VCR we had: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer888 Posted May 7, 2018 Author Share Posted May 7, 2018 I have purchased the following for 15 euros...the delivery is taking a bit too much time so my item is stuck on some platform or something. I didn't run into many converters on ebay but maybe I didn't use the proper key words. Also, I didn't want to spend too much money because well with technology you never know. I didn't feel to spend say 80 euros only to play with massive lags. Here is the reference of what I should receive soon (I hope..) SHARP MULTI SYSTEM VIDEO CONVERTER AN-300SC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taijigamer Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Did you consider getting those systems RGB modded? NTSC is a preferred format anyway, less timing issues with gameplay. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
universal2600 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Did you consider getting those systems RGB modded? NTSC is a preferred format anyway, less timing issues with gameplay. Plus 60fps 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 (edited) Plus no NTSC/PAL worries... Not sure about Famicon, but SNES has RGB out already...juist need to buy the right cable.... https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/packapunch-range/super-nintendo-packapunch-upgrade/packapunch-super-nintendo-entertainment-system-snes-n64-rgb-av-scart-cable-ntsc-gold-scart pc-engine info: http://retrorgb.com/tg16.html Edited July 26, 2018 by Level42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erichenneke Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Well, it's just that i code stuff for these systems and the point of having both NTSC and PAL versions is so i can test stuff on the real hardware for both. So modding them would kind of defeat the purpose of why I sought out a PAL system in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer888 Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 Sorry for late reply. I have recieved this converter and it works but not well. Yes the pictures from say composite pc engine on my PAL only TV is in color with no flickering nor slowdown. But the colors seem poor with quite some brightnes...When I see a black screen, it's actually light purple. A shame though...this device does work with the results delivered is annoying. If someone wants to buy.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjh76 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Have you considered the Extron 7SC? It can take input from RGB, NTSC, PAL, and SECAM, can scale up to 1080p or 1080i with little lag, and has two RGB outputs, one through BNC connectors, the other through a standard 15-pin vga connector. I do have to fiddle with the options a little when switching from one game system/retro computer to another, but the results look much better than connecting my systems directly to my flat panel tv. As for price, I usually see them on ebay between $50-$100, but I got mine for $16 and as of this post there is one listed for $18.97: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Extron-system-7SC/183303441433?hash=item2aadbc8c19%3Ag%3APlgAAOSw5cRZK1Kh&_sop=15&_sacat=0&_nkw=extron+7sc&_from=R40&rt=nc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer888 Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 I use an LCD screen 720 for my gaming with systems such as the pc engine, pc-fx and genesis (hello pixels on lcd!!). I managed to get an hold on a tube TV but I am quite OK with my LCD for I can't afford to buy this beast you mentioned on ebay. It looks more "serious" than the device I try to use. I have no doubt the picture will look better thanks to this but I will postpone this purchase especially since I got rid of my famicom (one less old system..) I will of course keep the Extron in mind though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erichenneke Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 interesting. Looks HUGE though... and by the shipping quotes on eBay i assume it is big and heavy. I'll keep an eye out though, if it really does a good job. Would this be good for attaching a PAL ( or NTSC) system to an NTSC CRT Television? -Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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