Classic arcade ports: great games or just "short bursts of nostalgia" ?

[pacman000]

"The only way you could make it more unappealing is if it was a foreign language film with English subtitles."

 

Ironically, the print probably was originally in another language; til about 10 years ago the only print of National Pucture's The Lost World known about was a cut-down 50 minute version. Someone found a more complete version overseas (Eastern Europe, I think,) & that's been the basis of newer restorations.

 

Ummm... What was this topic about again? Dinosaurs? Arcade games? Ok.

 

Old arcade games are cool, just as dinosaurs are cool, & folks who say old games are too short are like the folks who say dinosaurs were slow & stupid. In a word: wrong.

 

Alright, I'm joking a bit; people are allowed to have different tastes. But dismissing a piece of art simply because it's from a different era is wrong.

 

Greensleaves is still a popular tune, even if melodies have become more complex over time; I doubt that's caused by nostalgia. There are younger members here, who didn't grow up playing Atari; classic games have appeal beyond nostalgia.

[Skippy B. Coyote]

This topic reminds of a time a few years back when I was trying to explain what Atari 2600 games were like to a kid who had never played one before, and I didn't know whether or not I was articulating the experience properly until he said "So they're like mini-games?"; which pretty much hit the nail on the head.

 

I do know some folks who can play Atari games and arcade games for hours and hours on end and never get bored, but like with mini-games on modern consoles I tend to enjoy the classic arcade style gaming experiences in short bursts for a few minutes here and there. The games are fun, no doubt, but performing the same repetitive task over and over can only hold my interest for so long. Plus I tend to get frustrated when the game eventually wins, since for most of these games there's no real ending and the game just gets harder and harder until you lose.

 

It might be a product of growing up during the 16-bit and 32-bit eras but I like experiencing the satisfaction and feeling of accomplishment that comes from beating a game, and I just don't get that from high score focused games where the best you can say is "It took me a little longer to lose than the last time I played." That's when I start calling my Atari any number of names not fit for use in polite company and go play Sonic the Hedgehog instead.

 

I know that all sounds like I'm being pretty harsh on classic arcade style games, but I do like them. I just enjoy them the same way I enjoy caffeine: In moderation. I love starting my day with a good cup of coffee but I wouldn't feel so good if I tried drinking it all day long instead of water.

Edited July 22, 2018 by Jin

[Flojomojo]

I remember the shift from "endless" games to those with ends, and it started with the NES.

 

I also remember a silly anecdote from an arcade. It must have been 1986 or 1987 since I drove myself to a big mall arcade -- when they still existed. They had a sit-down Atari Star Wars machine, which I enjoyed.

 

I watched a little boy, probably age 6 (born in 1980 or 1981!) take a turn. He chose EASY, got nailed by TIE fighters a few times, then was led into the trench. The game almost plays itself at the first level, but you still need to aim. He had SHIELD GONE at the moment where you're supposed to shoot the target at the end of the trench and blow up the Death Star.

 

Of course, he hit the wall instead. Bam. GAME OVER. He was jubilant. "I beat that game!" he exclaimed to his mother, jumping out to waste more of her money on something else.

[mbd30]

This topic reminds of a time a few years back when I was trying to explain what Atari 2600 games were like to a kid who had never played one before, and I didn't know whether or not I was articulating the experience properly until he said "So they're like mini-games?"; which pretty much hit the nail on the head.

 

I do know some folks who can play Atari games and arcade games for hours and hours on end and never get bored, but like with mini-games on modern consoles I tend to enjoy the classic arcade style gaming experiences in short bursts for a few minutes here and there. The games are fun, no doubt, but performing the same repetitive task over and over can only hold my interest for so long. Plus I tend to get frustrated when the game eventually wins, since for most of these games there's no real ending and the game just gets harder and harder until you lose.

 

It might be a product of growing up during the 16-bit and 32-bit eras but I like experiencing the satisfaction and feeling of accomplishment that comes from beating a game, and I just don't get that from high score focused games where the best you can say is "It took me a little longer to lose than the last time I played." That's when I start calling my Atari any number of names not fit for use in polite company and go play Sonic the Hedgehog instead.

 

I know that all sounds like I'm being pretty harsh on classic arcade style games, but I do like them. I just enjoy them the same way I enjoy caffeine: In moderation. I love starting my day with a good cup of coffee but I wouldn't feel so good if I tried drinking it all day long instead of water.

 

This is why I love Marble Madness (in particular the NES port), it's high score focused with a scoring system that isn't broken and it has an ending, so it's got the best of both worlds.

[Video]

arcade games aren't about nostalgia. Well, maybe for some people. But most of us rarely, if ever played arcade games, or maybe even never set foot IN an arcade.

 

I played plenty of arcade games, but they were all consolized (mostly on 2600 or c=64) I loved the ones I loved because they were GOOD games, not because of nostalgia, or liking the arcade, even with things like mame I've still never played most of them. Modern ones tend to have the same base playstyle with new effects and levels.

 

Honestly I see arcade games a lot like modern cellphone Android games. Short playing goodness for mostly just a score. Granted those can be had mostly free, so getting the types of people who like those types of games to buy some old games likely won't happen, and the average person who plays those types of games likely couldn't set up an emulator.

 

But anyhow, I don't like old games due to nostalgia, neck many I don't like anyways despite them being good games, their just not my type of game. I love breakout type games, prefer them with rotery controllers, but can play them with other methods when necessary. I don't expect others to like them though.

[Ramses]

Many of my friends look down on old video games, especially pre-NES games. They want realistic graphics and a cinematic story. Those games are nice and all - I can enjoy AAA games though I rarely have the time to complete them. However, there is something about the simple games that are all about gameplay, mechanics, and score. I don't know how much of it is nostalgia, but most of the games I enjoy these days are old arcade games that I never played as a kid.

 

I do play these games in short bursts. I rarely play Mr Do! or Bagman for hours on end. It's usually 15-20 minutes at most. The games during this era are quite diverse. Since the play time is short I can play a game about avoiding ghosts and eating pellets, battling spaceships, crossing a road, guiding an escaped convict that's trying to get money bags out of a mine, stopping a gang of train robbers, controlling a penguin pushing ice blocks around, wrangling livestock, loading cargo onto ships, etc. all in an hour or so. Their graphics and mechanics are an abstraction which is one of their greatest strengths. They are not limited by the restraints of making realistic sense and can just focus on being fun.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Ramses

[homerhomer]

That's a tough one. The early arcade ports always left me wanting the real deal. I would enjoy games like Zaxxon, Ateroids and Centipede on the 2600 but it just wasn't the same. I'm going with nostalgia on this topic. I still think they're fun to play but I wouldn't call them great.

If I wasn't in the arcade's all the time I would feel different. Just my perspective

Edited July 24, 2018 by homerhomer

[Flojomojo]

I know I've said this before, but "classic style" is one reason I like mobile games so much. The quick fix game is mostly gone from the big consoles. I suspect it has to do with economics -- just like how casual games were helped along by Xbox Live Arcade games not needing physical distribution or a $60 price tag.

 

Add on a social or progression "meta game" to a quick game loop and it can become something you play every day.

[John Stamos Mullet]

arcade games aren't about nostalgia. Well, maybe for some people. But most of us rarely, if ever played arcade games, or maybe even never set foot IN an arcade.

 

I played plenty of arcade games, but they were all consolized (mostly on 2600 or c=64) I loved the ones I loved because they were GOOD games, not because of nostalgia, or liking the arcade, even with things like mame I've still never played most of them. Modern ones tend to have the same base playstyle with new effects and levels.

 

Honestly I see arcade games a lot like modern cellphone Android games. Short playing goodness for mostly just a score. Granted those can be had mostly free, so getting the types of people who like those types of games to buy some old games likely won't happen, and the average person who plays those types of games likely couldn't set up an emulator.

 

But anyhow, I don't like old games due to nostalgia, neck many I don't like anyways despite them being good games, their just not my type of game. I love breakout type games, prefer them with rotery controllers, but can play them with other methods when necessary. I don't expect others to like them though.

I don't know about it being "most of us".

 

I would guess that the vast majority of users on this board are old enough to have been owners of an Atari 2600/VCS in their first run, and were also very much exposed to Arcade games. Arcades were extremely popular right up into the early 90s, and through other places like Pizza shops, Bowling alleys, Shopping Malls, Beachside Amusement areas/store fronts, Amusement parks, laundromats, etc. There were arcade games everywhere in the 70's and 80's and into the 90's.

[mr_me]

That's true, in the early 1980s, I played a lot of arcade games at the nearby variety store and kmart. And when we were travelling, every rest stop, motel, and the nearest corner store had arcade games to play.

 

And in those days fewer families had home consoles. They were expensive and not affordable to many. The arcade games was still where you went for the latest and greatest video games. Sure, we all wanted to play them at home even though they don't always translate well. In the end the home video games I played most were those designed for home, not the arcade conversions.

 

Today, people might prefer to play the home version, not for nostalgia, but because that's the version they are use to and good at. Myself, I go to Mame to play Asteroids, and Missile Command. I do like to compare different home conversions of my favourite arcade games.

[John Stamos Mullet]

Same here. When I want to play Pac-Man, or Donkey Kong - I fire up MAME. and a lot of Arcade games I love didn't have home ports, or their home ports are unplayable bad - like APB or 720.

 

Also - a good part of the reason I chose the Sega MAster System over the NES when I was a teen was because the Sega Arcade games they had were great, compared to lackluster ports on the NES.

 

I do like newer console gaming, but if it's plot heavy and has a lot of cutscenes - I better have an option to skip, and multiple easy save points. I don't get a lot of time to play being an adult. This is why I sually prefer a quick session of arcade games. IF I get two hours, I can play multiple Arcade games, vs. with most console games I might get 20 minutes of gaming and an hour of listening to some really bad acting.

Edited July 24, 2018 by John Stamos Mullet

[derFunkenstein]

Im basically done with current gen console gaming. The most recent purchases have all been retro collections. Three such collections being released this spring/summer alone (Genesis, Street Fighter, and Mega Man X today) indicate that a lot of people are at least interested.

[atarilovesyou]

I'm not sure why some people get all 'elite-y' when they declare their enjoyment of retro games has nothing to do with nostalgia...like that enjoyment is somehow better than other kinds of appreciation?

 

Nostalgia is an easy 75% of why I adore retro gaming. But I think some of you have this warped idea that people who are nostalgic for the 80s and their games (even though my nostalgia crosses 80s through 90s) try to relive experiences from the past, escapism of some sort? It couldn't be farther from the truth.

 

The only escapism I have for retro games is that I am certain younger me would have shit himself that someday I could play all these classics using multicarts and the like...or instantly access all instruction manuals via the internet. Those really were out of the question unless you were rich.

 

I am so very happy that I grew up during that period. And even though I loved the cutscenes in games like Ninja Gaiden, I could already see the writing in the wall when Metal Gear Solid came out for the Playstation...the game designer finally had his wish, to create a movie that you could play. Only, there was a lot of movie and not as much play as I would have liked. These days, it's gotten even worse. But some people really enjoy that kind of thing, and they are the mainstream...I am not.

 

Retro games are about playing, vs watching. Not all modern games play like movies, but the genres have expanded into complex games that really take time to get into. I just played Fortnite BR for the first time last week, and it's not a game that would keep me coming back any more than Call of Duty. They are just variations on a theme, simple in some aspects while heaps more complex than even the most sophisticated 16 bit game.

 

The majority of current retro fans are not nostalgic merely by when they were born...they have no choice about it. If anybody should feel 'elitist' it should be those who were privileged enough to have been able to live through those incredibly entertaining times. Were it not for nostalgia, there would be no reason for mainstream products from ATGames or Retron to exist at all...because the retro market isn't driven by the hardcore, niche fans that we are. It's the millions of other people out there who have memories of this stuff and want to enjoy what they enjoyed before, without the hassles. And that's as perfectly legit a reason as any out there.

Edited July 27, 2018 by atarilovesyou

[Flojomojo]

Fools in love

They think they're heroes

Because they get to feel more pain

I say fools in love are zeroes

I should know

I should know because this fool's in love again

[derFunkenstein]

You know what I miss? Manuals that actually explained the game, both the game play and the game world. Nowadays you get mandatory tutorials but a paper manual in a game box would be the perfect way to pass the time while you wait for a 10GB day-one patch to download and for the game data to be installed to the hard drive from the disc. It' s not like the old days where you could pop in a cart and be playing immediately.

[Tanooki]

You know what I miss? Manuals that actually explained the game, both the game play and the game world. Nowadays you get mandatory tutorials but a paper manual in a game box would be the perfect way to pass the time while you wait for a 10GB day-one patch to download and for the game data to be installed to the hard drive from the disc. It' s not like the old days where you could pop in a cart and be playing immediately.

I value Nicalis and the few others with the courage to still release games, not even higher priced special editions at that, which still include a very helpful and useful print manual. It's a shame for cheaping out to save a few cents we don't get them anymore as they're far more helpful and user friendly while having a game open to get help.

[Pixelboy]

I'd say whether or not classic arcade games are "great" or not (or feed on nostalgia or not) is beside the point. The point is how much time you're willing to put on such games. If you don't have enough free time to embark on long-winded games from beginning to end (à la Zelda) then I'd say falling back on score-based arcade classics for playing in short spurts is as good a leisure outlet as anything else. Nostalgia will play a role in exactly which game you'll personally prefer playing, but for the rest, it all comes down to available free time to play.

[Flojomojo]

I value Nicalis

 

hey, what happened to 90s Arcade Racer? Seems like that should be out by now.

https://nicalis.com/games/90ssupergp

[Tanooki]

I wish I knew where that one went wrong as I forgot about it with all the delays.

 

I'm conflicted over Code of Princess EX as i have the 3DS game still and it was a lot of fun back when it came out. Ikaruga is a similar thing, still have it on the Gamecube and have the GC2HDMI mod so it's fairly well covered.

 

Redout as a physical release went up in smoke too annoyingly too.

 

Save Me! Mr Tako! looks great as a Gameboy wannabe in style and I'm considering that one. Ittle Dew 2 has been out awhile now, was thinking of buying that at one point but I never did for some reason. Nicalis picks up a lot of nice stuff and they don't ask all that much for all you get which is a nice change.

[Austin]

I'm conflicted over Code of Princess EX as i have the 3DS game still and it was a lot of fun back when it came out. Ikaruga is a similar thing, still have it on the Gamecube and have the GC2HDMI mod so it's fairly well covered.

 

Redout as a physical release went up in smoke too annoyingly too.

That's a shame about a physical Redout release. I have it on the PS4 and it's awesome.

 

Code of Princess, I'll probably end up picking it up on the Switch. The 3DS one can get choppy and slow, and my guess is the Switch one will look nicer and run really fluid. That's worth it alone IMO.

 

hey, what happened to 90s Arcade Racer? Seems like that should be out by now.

https://nicalis.com/games/90ssupergp

Man, that Kickstarter looks like one big cluster *$&%. I completely forgot about this game but remember being interested when it was first announced.

[Tanooki]

Yeah they did say that in some news stuff I read after posting about Code of Princess. They reworked a good bit of it over all while retaining the story and stage designs. The game now has a multiplayer setup I believe, and one thing it does do is allow for all the main characters who were both playable and not (on 3DS) to be all playable on the Switch. There's a small but good list of stuff about the upgrade so I'm strongly considering it as I really loved the classic almost Final Fight brawler style but with the RPG leveling aspect in a way kind of how Dragon's Crown did it with that title. It keeps the game far more fresh so it's not just a repetitive button mashing quarter crusher arcade wannabe.

[Cynicaster]

I acknowledge that nostalgia has its place in retro gaming, but I definitely get the annoyance some retro gamers have for the over-emphasis of the "nostalgia factor," because it really does sell the hobby short to presume it is propped up by such a thing.

 

If somebody plays old games strictly out of nostalgia, then great... the only thing I have against this is when it creates the impression to non-retro-gamers that we're just a bunch of weirdos who like to play with their childhood toys. Heck, if that were the truth of the matter, then I probably wouldn't care. But in my mind, it is no more true to say that I'm a grown man playing with my childhood toys than it is to say my co-worker is a grown man playing with *his* kid's toys when he picks up an Xbox controller. Good games are timeless, and I happen to prefer the design aspects that were prevalent in the 80s and early 90s; that's all there really is to it.

[Silverfleet]

Do I play old arcade games for nostalgic purposes? Yes.

 

Do I play old arcade games because they are good, fun games? Also yes.

 

As someone said before, I fire up MAME and pretend like I'm in an old arcade, wandering around with a cup full of tokens. I play random games, but I always come back to my old favorites. What could be considered a "mini-game" within a big budget title today were THE games back then! That's all we had, and we liked it. They were designed to be played in short bursts, otherwise arcade operators weren't going to make money!

 

Just because they are simple doesn't mean they aren't any more fun than modern games! Over the weekend, I've been playing the crap out of Dig Dug. As simple as the concept is of digging in dirt and inflating two types of enemies until they pop, I've been trying to perfect my methods to get a higher score. I spent well over an hour playing that one, simple game. I started with a high score around 12,000, and after playing for a while, I doubled that plus a few thousand more. Not going to break any world records, but that's not the point. I did spend a lot of time fighting the controller, otherwise I could do better. It's a different experience than playing through a modern big budget title, but still a blast.

[Cynicaster]

Just because they are simple doesn't mean they aren't any more fun than modern games!

...

It's a different experience than playing through a modern big budget title, but still a blast.

 

 

Exactly. Such a simple truth but it gets lost on a lot of people. A buddy of mine is 100% on the "modern games only" train. He is not remotely interested in a game unless it is at the bleeding edge of graphics technology. For example, you could take the best AAA title from the PS3 era, and if it was a game he missed back then, he would not be the least bit interested in playing it now even if it were given to him for free, because it's not the absolute latest and greatest in graphics. The way my mind works, I just can't operate like this, where games are "throw away" commodities. I like the experience of discovering old-but-new-to-me games to add to my favorites list, so that I can develop a long-term relationship with it over the course of years. Not only so that I can learn the game and gradually get better at it, but because simple retro games, to me, are much like songs; you pick up on the ones you like and they kind of define a certain time period for you when you go back later to play them again. This is not an essential aspect of the experience, but it definitely enhances it.

 

As for the "different experience" in retro vs. modern, I've been saying this for years: as far as I'm concerned a retro arcade-style game and a modern AAA title shouldn't even fall under the same category of entertainment medium. For expediency they collectively get grouped under the moniker "video games" but they haven't a thing in common. It's beyond an apples and oranges type thing... more like apples and sea cucumbers.

[Flojomojo]

I have a "graphics whore" friend like that. It could be a generational thing ...I'm stereotypical GenX and he's 10 years younger. Our big joke is how I **really liked Space Giraffe** and every other game-playing person we know, old or young, did not.

 

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