Billy Mitchell TG Banned, Scores Removed

[negative1]

I didn't think anyone ever questioned his skills, although he was somewhat manipulative to put himself above his competitors. Having an ego or being a dick is not cheating. Whatever he does now doesn't change the fact he cheated. He had legitimate world class scores before king of kong. I'm thinking he's doing this because he's being paid.

 

oh, he's definitely getting paid.

 

which is sad, since there are so many other better classic players out there,

that are much better at games,that don't get paid.

 

but society loves controversial figures, and these kind of figures.

 

hopefully, the appeal of this will wear out quickly so he can go back

to being a non-spectacle, and people will concentrate on the games.

 

later

-1

[onemoretime]

 

oh, he's definitely getting paid.

 

which is sad, since there are so many other better classic players out there,

that are much better at games,that don't get paid.

 

but society loves controversial figures, and these kind of figures.

 

hopefully, the appeal of this will wear out quickly so he can go back

to being a non-spectacle, and people will concentrate on the games.

 

later

-1

I ve always have a distaste for folk that are about the spectacle. But, it seems that most of the people that are money makers are all about it. Take the guy from the "Man vs Snake" documentary about the game Nibbler. He seemed a perfectly normal and nice feller, aside from being a friend of Billy Mitchel (according to Wikipedia anyhow), that accomplished a heck of a feat... He had his moment in the sun, but I had never heard of him, and don t remember ever hearing of him. As odd as it seems, I never really knew about Twin Galaxies, but knew who Billy Mitchell was. Some folk loved him, a vast amount despised him, some respected him, but everyone knew him.

 

I ve always had a bit of wonder as to why people with natural talent or highly interesting lives have the need to embellish an already well stocked lifetime of events. I ve got a friend that is a bonafide war hero. There s not doubt that it happened, there s documentation that it happened, there s witnesses that it happened.... it happened. The trouble is that he had the tendency to take credit for other events that took place long before his time. My thought is that when you have one defining moment in life, it s hard to one up it. So, he made these outlandish claims, and lost all credibility for it. So, now that he s past, most folk just talk about his bullshit stories, and don t remember the honorable man that risked everything to save others. I know it s a completely different deal, but I wonder if the reasoning behind it is the same...

[bigfriendly]

A while back Mitchell finally scored a million points with witnesses present at Donkey Kong. Other than that it seems as if he has totally dropped off the map. Have any of you gaming convention regulars heard or seen anything of him lately???

[Andromeda Stardust]

A while back Mitchell finally scored a million points with witnesses present at Donkey Kong. Other than that it seems as if he has totally dropped off the map. Have any of you gaming convention regulars heard or seen anything of him lately???

So, does a "no cheat" live million point verification mean he's reinstated as a record holder? Or is it like athletes who dope, once exposed, banned for life?

[Great Hierophant]

So, does a "no cheat" live million point verification mean he's reinstated as a record holder? Or is it like athletes who dope, once exposed, banned for life?

 

He isn't reinstated automatically, he'd have to petition the authorities that recognize high scores to approve his. In the case of Twin Galaxies or Guinness Book of World Records, that petition would be instantly rejected. The Donkey Kong forum indicated it would consider his request, if he made it. But "I'm Billy Mitchell" isn't likely to do so.

 

I don't see this quite in the same way as doping athlete. Once you take away the cheater's ability to cheat in a video game,they are just like everybody else. Doping athletes have caused their bodies to be modified unnaturally, a process for better or worse can never be completely reversed. Given the difficulty in detecting the usage of modern anabolic steroids, it can be impossible to tell if a "reformed" athlete has truly abandoned the performance enhancing drugs that lead to victory in the past. Former cheaters deserve enhanced scrutiny of their post-downfall accomplishments, but if a machine can be verified to be unaltered and a score to be proven legitimate, then the logic that applies to dopers doesn't really work for cheaters.

 

If Billy can rack up over 1 million at the age of fifty-two on two occasions, one wonders what he could have done at forty-two if he applied himself legitimately rather than doctor footage of himself obtaining a high score.

[Andromeda Stardust]

 

If Billy can rack up over 1 million at the age of fifty-two on two occasions, one wonders what he could have done at forty-two if he applied himself legitimately rather than doctor footage of himself obtaining a high score.

Well, playing video games is a bit different from sports competition. As long as a player is mentally sharp and doesn't have a debilitating neurological disorder or repetitive motion injuries, they are capable of competing. Reflexive action is a bit different from raw physical performance. For instance, pro bowlers, golfers, and pool hustlers can have much longer careers than other athletes, though nobody denies they are sports that require skilled hand-eye coordination.

 

Video games are no different. Additionally the popularity of the internet and streaming sites like Youtube and Twitch mean that contestants are now publicly performing record attempts for bragging rights. This means any newly discovered point farming methods or playing techniques can be scrutinized by other players. This has the net collective knowledge effect of players learning and benefiting from others techniques. Prior to live streaming, play attempts were done in secrecy. So yeah, the fact Billy Mitchel can now hit 1 million points ten years later, after watching modern live streamed attempts by world class players, when he could not do so back in the day without cheating, is no surprise.

 

I am a much better Tetris player now, at 37, than I was at 17 when I first got Tetris DX for the Game Boy Color. I am at a point that I can basically grind indefinitely on level 30. I first achieved this feat in 2015 when I was 34. In fact it happened a couple days after I posted this video.

315k on a DMG, despite starting at level zero and only reaching level 19 (damn I-beam famine resulted in early death). I wanted to see the grand rocket finale in monochrome, launching into outer space and dropping Tetris blocks into the sky. I was sorely disappointed by the actual result when played on a monochrome game boy, hence the "what???" at the end. My top score of all time was 700k I think, set a few days later, on the very same DMG. I just hit level 30 for the first time, basically achieving a Zen-like state of gameplay, before realizing to the bane of my childhood, there was no end to the game. Another time I played on the Game Cube Game Boy Player though a CRT, and I reached over 500k before I quit out of boredom. Are my reflexes better at 37 than they were two decades ago at 17? Probably not. Do I now have a lot more practice, and intimate understanding of play physics and scoring? Yes, without a doubt.

 

Lastly on the subject of "doping" I think it maybe can be applied to esports. I don't know of any video game record holders that have ever been tested for doping or substance abuse. For instance, if someone performs a 36-hour marathon of "insert name of arcade game that doesn't have kill screen" while consuming a half case of red bull and wearing a catheter, whereas another player only survives 24 hours by sipping water and taking occasional urination breaks, did the red bull junkie gain an unfair advantage from the caffeine boost and pee tube?

 

So what if the water boy is still gaming competitively at 63 while the red bull junky had a heart attack and kicked the bucket at 36? The dead junkie still holds the record...

[atarilovesyou]

If Billy can rack up over 1 million at the age of fifty-two on two occasions, one wonders what he could have done at forty-two if he applied himself legitimately rather than doctor footage of himself obtaining a high score.

See, I don't believe he doctored any footage...he didn't need to. He cheated by using MAME...my guess? Because he's lazy. And could have cared less about sourcing a real machine, which I'm also sure he could have done. He just didn't see the worth of it. Now he has paid the price.

 

As a Canadian alive in the 80s, when Ben Johnson was caught using drugs, it mattered not that he could do it clean

..while he tried, of course, unsuccessfully. He just couldn't step away from the spotlight until he was banned. Even then he resorted to publicity stunts afterwards. Laughably, the current 100 metre record holders all have faster times than Johnson and yet nobody bats an eye, lol...they're cheating too. Nobody cares as long as you don't get caught, it would seem.

 

For a long time I was really into the who Lance Armstrong controversy until I realized: these 'champions'? With that mindset of win at all costs? They are medically, mentally sick people. They are. And I have no need to spend time researching that...why do they do what they do? They're sick. End of story. So many better things to focus on in life than that stuff.

[negative1]

A while back Mitchell finally scored a million points with witnesses present at Donkey Kong. Other than that it seems as if he has totally dropped off the map. Have any of you gaming convention regulars heard or seen anything of him lately???

i'm not sure you checked properly.

he's just on cruise control. still going to all the conventions and getting paid.

 

he hasn't dropped out of site at all....just the opposite, he's at more than ever, sheeeeshhhh...

 

https://arcadeblogger.com/2018/11/17/free-play-florida-2018-review/

 

and no, he's been banned for life, so no matter if he scores 2 million tomorrow it won't count.

 

later

-1

[negative1]

See, I don't believe he doctored any footage...he didn't need to. He cheated by using MAME...my guess? Because he's lazy. And could have cared less about sourcing a real machine, which I'm also sure he could have done. He just didn't see the worth of it. Now he has paid the price.

 

As a Canadian alive in the 80s, when Ben Johnson was caught using drugs, it mattered not that he could do it clean

..while he tried, of course, unsuccessfully. He just couldn't step away from the spotlight until he was banned. Even then he resorted to publicity stunts afterwards. Laughably, the current 100 metre record holders all have faster times than Johnson and yet nobody bats an eye, lol...they're cheating too. Nobody cares as long as you don't get caught, it would seem.

 

For a long time I was really into the who Lance Armstrong controversy until I realized: these 'champions'? With that mindset of win at all costs? They are medically, mentally sick people. They are. And I have no need to spend time researching that...why do they do what they do? They're sick. End of story. So many better things to focus on in life than that stuff.

i agree with most of what you said. i don't believe though that billy was actually as good as

he claimed back then, because everything he has done has been shady.

 

 

anyways as an older game, i've hit my peak in the late 30's, and mid 40's, and still break my records even now:

 

the reasons i'm better now:

-----------

more time

free emulators, and official versions on consoles - especially with savegames, and savestates

better controllers

this is the most important - access to experts, and tons of high level videos of gameplay, and information on youtube

 

 

i did all these on default settings in last 5-10 years

various emulators, real machines, and consoles:

-------------------------------------------------------------

killscreened ms pac man turbo multiple times

killscreened pac-man a few months ago

hit 7.1 million on pac-man several years ago (all current pac-man ports fixed killscreen at 256, and continue)

hit 15 million on joust a few years ago

hit 1.7 million on galaga earlier this year

hit 1 million on dig dug on the 5 man settings multiple times in the last few years

hit 10 million on millipede several years ago

hit 1 million on centipede a few times a few years ago

etc, etc..

 

MAME got me back into gaming, and i've been working on all my favorites ever since.

 

my current goal is to hit 1 million on the normal ms pac man, which has never been

done, because the arcade has a killscreen at level 142. the home versions all have

that fixed, and go to level 256, and restart on the slow boards.

 

i have my progress over at steam, i've done it with 5+1 men settings, which aren't

default, and hope to do it on 3+1, it's going to take several hours, and i'm not

quite there yet. hope to do it later this year.

 

 

there's still life in older gamers. play smarter, and you get better, even

with the twitch reflex games (i'm still getting better at defender,stargate,

and robotron 2084 too).

 

later

-1

Edited November 18, 2018 by negative1

[atarilovesyou]

Regarding Ms Pacman, I thought there were no patterns because the ghosts are randomized? I didn't realize it could be racked up like Pac Man. I can barely get to 60k!...and we've been playing for decades?

 

To our credit, we play those games without the benefit of modern tips. I play Galaga with pure twitch skills every time...whether I put up a good score is entirely dependent on how I do on the bonus levels....which drive me insane! How many times I missed just one bloody guy...it's like video game yips?

 

Any good resources for better play techniques for Galaga and Ms Pac Man? Maybe it's time to start playing smarter, lol.

[power]

Regarding Ms Pacman, I thought there were no patterns because the ghosts are randomized? I didn't realize it could be racked up like Pac Man. I can barely get to 60k!...and we've been playing for decades

 

To our credit, we play those games without the benefit of modern tips. I play Galaga with pure twitch skills every time...whether I put up a good score is entirely dependent on how I do on the bonus levels....which drive me insane! How many times I missed just one bloody guy...it's like video game yips

 

Any good resources for better play techniques for Galaga and Ms Pac Man? Maybe it's time to start playing smarter, lol.

 

I like seeing how AI's play games. they study dozens of players and then just exploit the crap out of them.

 

The Q*Bert one is genius because the AI figured it out for itself. Full article linked below is a good read.

 

https://kotaku.com/earlier-this-year-researchers-tried-teaching-an-ai-to-1830416980?IR=T

 

[negative1]

Regarding Ms Pacman, I thought there were no patterns because the ghosts are randomized?

I didn't realize it could be racked up like Pac Man. I can barely get to 60k!...and we've been playing for decades

ms pac man ghost and grouping:

 

there are pseudo-patterns, if you survive the first 15 seconds of each board,

and then group them, you can execute a 'pattern' that will work.

 

slow chase

 

slow junior

 

 

 

 

 

To our credit, we play those games without the benefit of modern tips. I play Galaga with pure twitch skills every time...

whether I put up a good score is entirely dependent on how I do on the bonus levels....which drive me insane!

How many times I missed just one bloody guy...it's like video game yips

 

 

Any good resources for better play techniques for Galaga and Ms Pac Man? Maybe it's time to start playing smarter, lol.

 

by far the best galaga tips ever:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3kEBWgv6c8

 

the game maxes out around level 16 or 20, and then its just 3 boards over and over,

with the bonus ones also. check out youtube for positioning and getting perfects on all

of those.

 

 

good luck.

 

later

-1

Edited November 19, 2018 by negative1

[Andromeda Stardust]

my current goal is to hit 1 million on the normal ms pac man, which has never beendone, because the arcade has a killscreen at level 142. the home versions all havethat fixed, and go to level 256, and restart on the slow boards.i have my progress over at steam, i've done it with 5+1 men settings, which aren'tdefault, and hope to do it on 3+1, it's going to take several hours, and i'm notquite there yet. hope to do it later this year.

there's still life in older gamers. play smarter, and you get better, evenwith the twitch reflex games (i'm still getting better at defender,stargate,and robotron 2084 too).later-1

So close. I hope you achieve your goal with Ms Pacman. Godspeed, my friend.

 

And I totally agree with other's sentiments on age factor. Intelligence and skill increases throughout life. You never stop learning. Brute strength and agility fade, but mentally and neurologically we stay fit much longer than physically. So our bodies may not be capable to take or dish out as much abuse at 40 than we could at 24, but mentally we are much sharper at 40 than at 24. Mental, neurological, and reflex deterioration don't normally set in until we are past senior age.

 

I'm sure some old hat will be packing and nes/atari/whatever and a tiny but functional crt in the old folks home some decades from now, just like current old people hoard vintage tube radio equipment and such. Arcade controls and video games, as well as certain sports such as billiards, archery, shooting, etc, rely on fine motor control which does not deteriorate as rapidly as coarse control (strength, speed, running, jumping, etc), so it does not surprise me that world class players in the 80s can still perform 35 years later.

 

So while you may not run a 6-minute mile like you did on the high school track team, you can sure as hell best those old high scores you set on the Atari when you were a kid. The millenial newcomers are giving the old guard a run for their money though. I'd say esports for retro games is every bit as popular now as currdnt gen stuff, if not more. Not surprized that young kids are coming out of the woods aspiring to set records playing games like Donkey Kong, Pacman, or Tetris.

[negative1]

So close. I hope you achieve your goal with Ms Pacman. Godspeed, my friend.

 

So while you may not run a 6-minute mile like you did on the high school track team, you can sure as hell best those old high scores you set on the Atari when you were a kid. The millenial newcomers are giving the old guard a run for their money though. I'd say esports for retro games is every bit as popular now as currdnt gen stuff, if not more. Not surprized that young kids are coming out of the woods aspiring to set records playing games like Donkey Kong, Pacman, or Tetris.

thanks, appreciate the sentiment, i had men left,

so i did make it past a million:

 

the real trick is doing it with 3+1, thats going to be a lot harder.

 

i'm glad that a lot of new people are taking up the challenge of beating

a lot of old scores, and challenging them.

 

i'm not saying everyone cheated, or made up scores back in the day,

but without verification being what is now, allowing multiple continues,

and having non standard settings. its just tough to know whats real

and whats not.

 

good thing TG and other sources are looking into scores, and verifying them,

although its still taking awhile, and there are still wrong scores that

need to be taken down (robotron 2084).

 

later

-1

[Cynicaster]

I'm pretty sure there isn't a single score I got back in the 80s or 90s that I haven't beaten in the last 5-6 years. I'm pretty sure the reason for this has nothing to do with age, and everything to do with the fact that I just tend to try harder now than I did back then.

[Andromeda Stardust]

I'm pretty sure there isn't a single score I got back in the 80s or 90s that I haven't beaten in the last 5-6 years. I'm pretty sure the reason for this has nothing to do with age, and everything to do with the fact that I just tend to try harder now than I did back then.

You probably also didn't have Google either to show you strategies for point farming much less staying alive. Like with shooters, you probably was like "shoot everything and try to not get hit." Or with pinball, "avoid the drain." Now you can go on Google and be like,

"If you daisy chain the powerups, it enhances your primary weapon. Be careful not to enhance any specific weapon beyond level IV or collect a different powerup type, otherwise it will revert to base configuration. For the boss fight on stage X, hover here with when he begins the assault, there when he morphs into his second phase. Firing at the eye when revealed deals 300% damage. Watch out and do not hover here for long. Dodge left when the tentacle wiggles this way; dodge right when it wiggles that way. When he flashes red, you are at the third and final transformation phase. Move all the way into the corner of the screen to dodge the devastating assault. His underbelly is exposed when he performs this attack, however hovering underneath is sheer suicide, so now is a good time to use the screen filling super-bomb if you have em. His health is almost depleted at this stage, so it only takes two superbombs to annihilate the boss and save the galaxy..."

Yeah, with explicit instructions like that, that boss fight you could never win as a kid becomes a literal cake walk.

[Cynicaster]

You probably also didn't have Google either to show you strategies for point farming much less staying alive. Like with shooters, you probably was like "shoot everything and try to not get hit." Or with pinball, "avoid the drain." Now you can go on Google and be like,

"If you daisy chain the powerups, it enhances your primary weapon. Be careful not to enhance any specific weapon beyond level IV or collect a different powerup type, otherwise it will revert to base configuration. For the boss fight on stage X, hover here with when he begins the assault, there when he morphs into his second phase. Firing at the eye when revealed deals 300% damage. Watch out and do not hover here for long. Dodge left when the tentacle wiggles this way; dodge right when it wiggles that way. When he flashes red, you are at the third and final transformation phase. Move all the way into the corner of the screen to dodge the devastating assault. His underbelly is exposed when he performs this attack, however hovering underneath is sheer suicide, so now is a good time to use the screen filling super-bomb if you have em. His health is almost depleted at this stage, so it only takes two superbombs to annihilate the boss and save the galaxy..."

Yeah, with explicit instructions like that, that boss fight you could never win as a kid becomes a literal cake walk.

 

Good point. This is more true for some games than others, but I've definitely done it.

[Flojomojo]

Billy Mitchell back in the news, suing Guinness and Twin Galaxies to get his scores reinstated and his reputation restored. Good luck with that. 

 

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/09/former-donkey-kong-champ-threatens-to-sue-guinness-over-record-removal/

[Tempest]

What a douche.  You got caught, just accept it and either go away quietly or work really hard and legitimately get the record.  I can't see how this will help his reputation at all.

 

Also, it's a high score on a 38 year video game.  Is it worth this much time and attention?  It's not like he doesn't have a real job selling crappy hot sauce.  Is it an ego thing?

[VectorGamer]

1 hour ago, Tempest said:

Also, it's a high score on a 38 year video game.  Is it worth this much time and attention?  It's not like he doesn't have a real job selling crappy hot sauce.  Is it an ego thing?

You think he pays out of his own wallet to make all these appearances he makes at expos?

[Tempest]

39 minutes ago, VectorGamer said:

You think he pays out of his own wallet to make all these appearances he makes at expos?

I guess not, but is that seriously this important to him? 

[+Nathan Strum]

4 hours ago, Tempest said:

Also, it's a high score on a 38 year video game.  Is it worth this much time and attention?  It's not like he doesn't have a real job selling crappy hot sauce.  Is it an ego thing?

That's who he is. He's spent his life being defined by his video game records. That's his fifteen minutes of fame, dragged out for 30+ years.

[onemoretime]

18 hours ago, Flojomojo said:

Billy Mitchell back in the news, suing Guinness and Twin Galaxies to get his scores reinstated and his reputation restored. Good luck with that. 

 

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/09/former-donkey-kong-champ-threatens-to-sue-guinness-over-record-removal/

Kind of a hard to wrap my mind around. I don t know how it is everywhere else, but in Texas, a private business has the right to refuse service to anyone. Here s the thing... Twin Galaxy more or less proclaimed to be the public authority on high scores, but I m not certain that it matters. I can claim that I m the upmost authority on Genghis Kahn, but that doesn't mean that historians have to fact check their information through me first. Nor does it mean that someone that has information contradicting my own has the personal right to post it on my fictional King of Hun website. I guess he has the right to sue for defamation, but certainly not inclusion. Or am I missing something?

[Cynicaster]

I was pretty surprised when I saw this news.  I know Billy has been chirping off about how he has something "in the works" and "all will be shown.... soon" and all that, but I just assumed that was his way of kicking the can down the road in hopes that the drama would fade into the rearview and people would forget about it. 

 

I didn't read every word, but I spent about an hour combing over his 156-page "evidence package" and I'm really wondering what kind of outcome he is hoping for here. 

 

Is it financially driven?  Doesn't make much sense, because a year and a half later, he still pulls regular appearance fees and free vacations as if nothing ever happened.  Hiring expensive lawyers as attack dogs only costs him money. 

 

Is it to manage his reputation?  This makes even less sense.  The "Billy Earthers" who have been swept up by his cult of personality don't need this lawsuit to convince them of anything, and, conversely, the folks who have looked at - and taken time to understand - the evidence already know the conclusions of the dispute investigation are objectively sound and irrefutable, and no amount of obfuscation can change that. 

 

All he's doing is picking a scab and drawing renewed attention to the overwhelming evidence against him.  Not only that, but these types of transparently-sleazy legal gambits only serve to further substantiate the long-simmering and popular rumor that, despite his ability to charm convention-goers with thumbs-ups and selfies, he is actually a man of very poor character and integrity who likes to steamroll people for the benefit of his own ego. 

 

For me, the most logical conclusion is that he knows full well that this action cannot - and will not - yield net benefits with respect to his finances or reputation.  I think he's doing it out of a lust for "revenge" against those who dared question his greatness.  He's probably hoping that the lawsuit will get traction and TG will crumble under the financial burden of fighting it.  Basically, he's saying "If you won't let me in the house, then fine, I'll just burn it down."

[VectorGamer]

27 minutes ago, Cynicaster said:

He's probably hoping that the lawsuit will get traction and TG will crumble under the financial burden of fighting it.  Basically, he's saying "If you won't let me in the house, then fine, I'll just burn it down."

Interesting take. We'll see what happens. I have no clue how financially well off the new TG is.