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#26 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:00 PM

 

i guess the Q should be "how unlawful".

Don't be that guy.

 

Seriously though, the game isn't being sold and the Intellvision guys have been really supportive of things in the past.  As long as someone isn't selling the rom, I seriously doubt they'd mind.



#27 mr_me OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:08 PM

It could very well be sold and Intellivision Productions could very well mind.  Just because they never said anything doesn't mean they didn't mind.  New management might be different and not mind so much.



#28 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:22 PM

It could very well be sold and Intellivision Productions could very well mind.  Just because they never said anything doesn't mean they didn't mind.  New management might be different and not mind so much.

 

Well then don't do it then.  No one is forcing you to do anything.



#29 Utopia OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:10 PM

We should add "Pumpkin Spice Patrol' to the list. :)



#30 carlsson OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:45 AM

As an amateur programmer, I'm getting confused by mixed messages in this thread. Some people are asking for more games and programs that require the ECS. Some people are asking that the few, existing games and programs that require the ECS are hacked in order to not require the expansion. Which one is in majority, or are you asking for games that will run without the ECS but at the same time detect it and enhance the playing experience if is enabled?



#31 mr_me OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:03 AM

Music based apps and four player games are appropriate for the ECS. Optional enhanced sound/music is okay too. And anything that requires text input.

#32 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:50 AM

As an amateur programmer, I'm getting confused by mixed messages in this thread. Some people are asking for more games and programs that require the ECS. Some people are asking that the few, existing games and programs that require the ECS are hacked in order to not require the expansion. Which one is in majority, or are you asking for games that will run without the ECS but at the same time detect it and enhance the playing experience if is enabled?

 

I think people who own an ECS want more games that use its extra features while people who don't own one want to be able to play ECS games without the unit.  Don't know how high ECS ownership is among Intellivision collectors but it's probably not particularly high so I'd guess non-ECS people are in the majority.  Still, it seems like a waste not to support it.  



#33 Intymike OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:53 AM

I want games that have a save option for the tape recorder.  :)



#34 carlsson OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:55 AM

It kind of reminds me of a few text adventures for the 16K expanded VIC-20 which were reprogrammed into multi loading text adventures so they could be playable on the unexpanded VIC-20, as long as you didn't move back to a part of the game you already had loaded past. Or for that matter all those threads "which games would you like to see on system XYZ" which generally are filled with game suggestions that already exist on every single other system except for XYZ. It is almost like people can only afford one system, and in this case, people who could afford an ECS want to see it utilized while people who can't afford an ECS don't want to miss out on ECS only games...



#35 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:42 AM

while people who can't afford an ECS don't want to miss out on ECS only games...

 

I don't think there's really anything amazing on the ECS other than maybe World Series Championship Baseball.  Mindstrike is alright too I suppose.



#36 artrag OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:54 AM

And Deep Zone
😁
http://atariage.com/...-3#entry4011066

Edited by artrag, Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:56 AM.


#37 Gernot OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:54 AM

Tempest

 

i am THAT guy :)

 

See it has a reason, an agreement won't protect you from a lawsuit, ok everybody agrees when you say "it's not for profit - it's no problem".

Fortunately i haven't run in such a lawsuit (yet), besides can you strip a naked man?

 

An experience i made with "Pioneer" and my models, i had the agreement of "Frontier.dev" to use the original Frontier art.

But i had to agree to the devs of Pioneer, that if a lawyer would start a lawsuit this spoken out agreement would worth a shit.

They would have to act and we would be fined (things are complicated today - aren't they? when a word between two men counts nothing anymore).

Thus i agreed that all my Frontier ships had to be removed (strangewisely all was removed not only the Frontier ships).

I no longer mind about that.

 

But that's why i'm maybe a liitle to cautious.

 

right mr_me

and you see it's not so much the management which matters, it matters if a sleek lawyer starts a lawsuit,

means i could have had the personal agreement of David Braben, and it would still worth a shit.

 

For your developements you won't have to mind i guess, they will never be this close as my models was

close? unit by unit they was the same, i blatantly copied the geometry from the original game, since our previous modelling system and frontiers internal way to draw the models was similar, draw bezier, draw flat, etc.

I learned in this way a lot about 3D models of which i guess by far not everybody who creates them knows about, today you work with a CAD and not with "draw bezier",

but the rules how they work are stil the same and the errors you can run into are still the same as 25 years ago.

 

----

 

if it was about me i would say "do what you like with it", but it isn't that easy.



#38 thegoldenband OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:35 PM

I think IPS (or BPS, xdelta, etc.) patches for existing ECS games that don't make meaningful use of the ECS's extra sound channels or input options, but just need base Intellivision hardware + extra RAM to work, are a fine idea. That way anyone with a modern flash cart can play them, whether or not they own working ECS hardware.

 

Aaaand, I also think new ECS games that take advantage of those sound channels and input options (four-player Intellivision battles?) are a fine idea too. Win-win! :D



#39 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:10 PM

Tempest

 

i am THAT guy :)

 

Sorry if I came off as a prick.  It's just that there are those people who like to jump into threads just to rain on someone's parades or just like to tattle on people.  It's annoying because those people don't actually care one way or another, they just like to cause trouble for other people.  It's a milder form of trolling, but equally as obnoxious. 



#40 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:05 PM

Found another game that doesn't like the ECS: Choplifter.  It wont' start with the ECS hooked up but is fine without it.



#41 intvsteve ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:49 PM

That's it.  Did anyone ever patch these?

I think if you have these ROMs on your LTO Flash! they'll play even w/ ECS attached when you've got the cart configured appropriately. Haven't tried it in awhile though. My guess is that the default settings will make it "just work".

 

That said, I'm not sure if there's a patched ROM out there.



#42 First Spear OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:43 AM

My $.02 on making new ECS-ready stuff:

 

The Inty forums here have the most rabid Intellivision fans, and I think it's safe to say that on the high end 10%-20% have an ECS at all, and half of that number have it connected at any given time, or would bother connecting it for a game. I think the Intellivision-interested public outside of AA forums is maybe in the 2% range for owning/using an ECS. It's just a lot of hardware for minimal benefit concerning the number replayable titles that use it. Along with that, today's Intellivision developer does not have a lot of motivation to make an ECS-specific title that will sell maybe 20 copies. The ROI sucks.

 

However, the emulation community is near 100% in terms of "owning" an ECS. So making something new with ECS support will cover the Inty hardware gamer that probably does not have and ECS, but the emulation player does have one (and can get 6-voice sound). 

 

 

My $.02 on patching existing ECS stuff to not need an ECS and distributing:

 

It's not worth it.

  1. It's copyright infringement (doesn't matter how you feel about it personally, it is). Messing with Intellivision Productions on this is a bad idea.
  2. It scratches an itch for like 4 people on this planet. The True Intellivision Dev Lords that could do it are less than 10, probably less than 5, and I doubt any of them have time to do it; the ROI sucks.

 

 

 



#43 mr_me OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:12 AM

Obviously, the Intellivision community is not concerned about copyrights. Further, hacking is not copyright infringement as long as you're not distributing the original copyrighted code.

True that few people can program Intellivision assembly and few can analyse someone else's disassembled code. Very few would have motivation to do it. We can see this by the number of people currently hacking Intellivision games. If I could hack Intellivision roms I could think of other projects I would do first.

#44 intellivotion OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:16 AM

(...) I think it's safe to say that on the high end 10%-20% have an ECS at all,  
(...)

I bet at least 60-70% of the people around here have an ECS.
 
I also bet 15-20% of the remaing 30-40% have more than one ECS
 
just my 2 Eurocents ;)

#45 fdr4prez OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:41 AM

We need a game that utilizes the ECS and two Dual Action Controllers :)

#46 jaybird3rd ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:58 AM

I suspect that the 10%-20% estimate is a bit low, at least here on AtariAgeI've got three ECS Computer Adaptors, one new in the box, and I'm sure I'm not alone.  Those who want to share modified ROMs without distributing copyrighted material can always issue a patch file or a script created with a scriptable hex editor such as XVI32, both of which can be used to generate a patched ROM from the original ROM file from the "Intellivision Lives!" or "Intellivision Rocks!" collections (I'm sure that those of us who are obsessive enough to actually own an ECS already own both collections).

 

I can understand the argument that supporting the ECS with homebrew doesn't make sense because the numbers are so low.  But for me, the idea of pursuing homebrew projects in the first place should be all about the love of development, and of supporting obscure old systems by providing the people who own them with new ways to enjoy them.  The numbers don't deter me because, strictly speaking, the numbers never "make sense" in homebrew anyway; compared to the general population, the audience for any vintage console or computer will always be vanishingly small.



#47 m-crew OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:49 PM

Im sure if games are made for the ECS , This community would support them no matter if people have an ECS or not.. Plus it may get more people interested in an ECS.. Personally I would love to see more games utilizing the ECS..

Cheers
G

#48 Tempest OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:38 PM

Can anyone else confirm that Choplifter doesn't work with the ECS attached?



#49 the1hatman OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:48 PM

Im sure if games are made for the ECS , This community would support them no matter if people have an ECS or not.. Plus it may get more people interested in an ECS.. Personally I would love to see more games utilizing the ECS..

Cheers
G

 

I completely agree. While I understand the concerns of the ECS not having as wide a usage as the general homebrew scene I have also noticed that anything, ANYTHING produced new for Intellivision around here gets bought up quickly and with most buyers getting multiple copies/sets/etc. of the items available. I still have people asking for Blix boxes when I know they don't own the game and likely never will short of a re-issue. I'm sure any new game produced, even if it could not be played without a working ECS, would sell as well as any other recent homebrew release. The idea that it might spark greater interest in the ECS is a nice bonus as well.

 

I've went a step further once before in asking that someone make a new game for the Music Synthesizer and I'm sure there are less of them floating around than the ECS. I have no doubt even that would easily move as many copies as anything else new for INTV.


Edited by the1hatman, Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:50 PM.


#50 mr_me OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:37 PM

Can anyone else confirm that Choplifter doesn't work with the ECS attached?

Choplifter conflicts with ECS rom.  It's unusual for an INTV cartridge and questions the prototype's origin.  Other cartridges/roms with a similar memory map are Championship Tennis, King of the Mountain, Space Shuttle; all from Mattel Electronics around 1983/84.


Edited by mr_me, Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:38 PM.





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