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Need .hfe formatted by HFDC


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#76 Jeff_HxC2001 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 9, 2018 2:30 PM

http://ftp.whtech.com/datasheets%20and%20manuals/Hardware/Myarc/MYARC%20HFDC%20Manual%204th%20edition.pdf is the only docs I know of off the top of my head, michael prob has schematics if they aren't in there 

 

Thanks. i don't see the schematic in this pdf.

 

I see 2 possibilities :

 

- The FDC write-precompensation setting is quite aggressive which make the pulses capture not working properly. Is there a way to change this parameter ?

 

Or

 

- The emulator is forced at 250kb/s (can be forced in the internal menu...)


Edited by Jeff_HxC2001, Wed May 9, 2018 2:32 PM.


#77 Jeff_HxC2001 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 9, 2018 2:56 PM

Here are the HDC9234 write pre-compensation possibilities :

 

HDC9234_writeprecomp.png

 

If it is set at 600ns or 500ns during HD formating the flux capture will probably fail...

I can tweak the capture routines to make it work but i don't have this FDC here to test the modifications.

BTW is normal writing working fine on HD disk with this controller ?



#78 Jeff_HxC2001 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 9, 2018 3:03 PM


 

- The FDC write-precompensation setting is quite aggressive which make the pulses capture not working properly. Is there a way to change this parameter ?

 

According to the documentation it seems possible to change the write precompensation, at least for the hard disk. not sure for the floppy...



#79 arcadeshopper OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 9, 2018 3:09 PM

Here are the HDC9234 write pre-compensation possibilities :
 
HDC9234_writeprecomp.png
 
If it is set at 600ns or 500ns during HD formating the flux capture will probably fail...
I can tweak the capture routines to make it work but i don't have this FDC here to test the modifications.
BTW is normal writing working fine on HD disk with this controller ?

Yes I can format a real 1.44 disk on the controller I removed my real 1.44 from the system to plug in the lotherek

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#80 Jeff_HxC2001 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 9, 2018 3:12 PM

Yes I can format a real 1.44 disk on the controller I removed my real 1.44 from the system to plug in the lotherek

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

 

no, what i ask is : have you already tried to write files with this controller and the "lotharek" emulator on HD images ?



#81 arcadeshopper OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 9, 2018 3:25 PM

 

no, what i ask is : have you already tried to write files with this controller and the "lotharek" emulator on HD images ?

 

yes I get an error writing to the hfe i formatted earlier.

 

i have no working hd hfe's at this point to write too



#82 mizapf OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 9, 2018 3:30 PM

Formatting by MDM5 (Myarc Disk Manager V):

 

...
[:ioport:peb:slot8:hfdc:hdc9234] FORMAT TRACK command 70, head = 0
[:ioport:peb:slot8:hfdc:hdc9234] FORMAT TRACK command 70, head = 1
[:ioport:peb:slot8:hfdc:hdc9234] FORMAT TRACK command 70, head = 0
[:ioport:peb:slot8:hfdc:hdc9234] FORMAT TRACK command 70, head = 1
[:ioport:peb:slot8:hfdc:hdc9234] WRITE SECTORS LOGICAL command b0, CHS=(0,0,1)
[:ioport:peb:slot8:hfdc:hdc9234] WRITE SECTORS LOGICAL command b0, CHS=(0,0,0)
[:ioport:peb:slot8:hfdc:hdc9234] WRITE SECTORS LOGICAL command b0, CHS=(0,0,0)

 

This is the MAME log for the HDC9234 with active LOG_WRITE and LOG_FORMAT.



#83 InsaneMultitasker OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 9, 2018 3:53 PM

HFDC schematics should be on WHT if not I can upload.  



#84 mizapf OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 9, 2018 4:35 PM

Just checked with the HDC specs: The dump indicates that there is no precompensation.

#85 Jeff_HxC2001 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 9, 2018 5:10 PM

Just checked with the HDC specs: The dump indicates that there is no precompensation.

 

Well in this case still only 2 solutions to understand the problem :

- Raw Kryoflux stream files.

or

- an oscilloscope on the Write Data & Write Gate lines...



#86 Jeff_HxC2001 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 9, 2018 5:11 PM

Formatting by MDM5 (Myarc Disk Manager V):

...
[:ioport:peb:slot8:hfdc:hdc9234] FORMAT TRACK command 70, head = 0
[:ioport:peb:slot8:hfdc:hdc9234] FORMAT TRACK command 70, head = 1
[:ioport:peb:slot8:hfdc:hdc9234] FORMAT TRACK command 70, head = 0
[:ioport:peb:slot8:hfdc:hdc9234] FORMAT TRACK command 70, head = 1
[:ioport:peb:slot8:hfdc:hdc9234] WRITE SECTORS LOGICAL command b0, CHS=(0,0,1)
[:ioport:peb:slot8:hfdc:hdc9234] WRITE SECTORS LOGICAL command b0, CHS=(0,0,0)
[:ioport:peb:slot8:hfdc:hdc9234] WRITE SECTORS LOGICAL command b0, CHS=(0,0,0)

This is the MAME log for the HDC9234 with active LOG_WRITE and LOG_FORMAT.

 

And this is the same software used by arcadeshopper ?



#87 arcadeshopper OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 9, 2018 5:32 PM

http://ftp.whtech.co...eve/schematics/

 

hfdc schematics are in this directory



#88 acadiel OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 9, 2018 8:25 PM

I'm going to throw some Corcomp images into the mix next ;)

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#89 RickyDean OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 10, 2018 5:41 AM

          I did this using the settings on a version of the HxC tool I downloaded in April. In the first picture you see the settings, other settings I used error-ed after format. Then when I used these settings the second picture shows the outcome. I am including that format here now, this was formatted on a HxC, though I tried a Gotek on the first couple of attempts, with other settings.. I worked after I came in from working on one of my trucks, then from 8:30ish to 11:30ish I used my newly repaired Geneve to run the tests. In the Geneve picture, the bad sectors could be attributed to a problem I encountered with the HxC, It is not mounted, just laying there and the thing stopped being lit up for a bit, while verifying, maybe a bad power cable connection, and  I had to reload the image as a disk on the HxC, while the verification process was working.

Attached Files



#90 acadiel OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 10, 2018 7:07 AM

Here's some of mine from a Corcomp.

 

I have seven files in here:

 

Empty SSSD template

Empty DSSD template

Empty DSDD template

- these are from the ones I linked to above - empties that are around 981K but formatted differently.  Not sure how they were created.

 

Formatted SSSD 

Formatted DSSD

Formatted DSDD

- These, I reformatted with my Corcomp controller with DM2K.  They appear to have formatted correctly, but if you want to check the layout, feel free.

 

CopyC copy to the SSSD formatted disk

- This is an attempt to use CopyC to copy from a protected DSK3 disk (MG Explorer) to a SSSD Formatted HFE (from above).  Obviously, it didn't like it. :)

 

I used a Sandisk Class 10 Ultra 16GB micro SD card in the GoTek for this; this unit has some pretty nice write speeds.

 

Attached Files



#91 mizapf OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 10, 2018 8:27 AM

Thanks for your tests, all images are fine so far, as I tested them with my AnalyseHFE tool. The copy-c sample shows DDAMs (deleted DAMs).

 

However, my actual intention was to verify the behavior of the HFDC, so I really need a disk that was formatted and written by a HFDC.



#92 BeeryMiller OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 10, 2018 8:40 AM

Thanks for your tests, all images are fine so far, as I tested them with my AnalyseHFE tool. The copy-c sample shows DDAMs (deleted DAMs).

 

However, my actual intention was to verify the behavior of the HFDC, so I really need a disk that was formatted and written by a HFDC.

Well, that disk is on its way to Jonathan so maybe late this weekend he will have the disk.

 

I did go digging into MDOS looking at the HFDC format routine.  From what I can tell, it actually uses code on the HFDC eprom itself, rather than separate code.  So, it should not matter whether the disk is formatted from MDOS on a Geneve, or on a TI-99/4A.  They should be the same.

 

Beery



#93 RickyDean OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 10, 2018 8:56 AM

Thanks for your tests, all images are fine so far, as I tested them with my AnalyseHFE tool. The copy-c sample shows DDAMs (deleted DAMs).

 

However, my actual intention was to verify the behavior of the HFDC, so I really need a disk that was formatted and written by a HFDC.

Michael, look at the HxC program setting pic I posted and let me know of some values that you think need to be readjusted, to get a better format, such as side based is checked. Unchecked kept giving device or media errors when formatting. Also I can do all the different formats tonight, since I can use my Geneve and HFDC together again.



#94 mizapf OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 10, 2018 9:24 AM

The disk should be 40 track, double density, 250 kbit/s, 18 sectors/track. This means a total of 1440 sectors.

 

Interleave is 4, skew is 0, but what is side-based? Don't know, maybe whether this is depending on the side, then I'd say not. Also, pre-gap length may refer to the sync zone, which is 12. Auto-gap3 is OK; we do not rely on exact gap lengths.

 

By the way, I wonder how you manage to format a disk with 1.4 MiB size with 250 kbit/s only. This must be 500 kbit/s.

 

The reason is that with 36 sectors per track, and each having 256 byte, plus some more for headers and gaps (typically plus 84), and 16 cells per byte, you get about 200000 cells per track, and a track is exactly 0.2 seconds long (with 300 rpm), so every cell must be 1 us, or, taking again 2 cells for each data bit, both require 2 us, which is 500 kbit/s.



#95 RickyDean OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 10, 2018 10:14 AM

The disk should be 40 track, double density, 250 kbit/s, 18 sectors/track. This means a total of 1440 sectors.

 

Interleave is 4, skew is 0, but what is side-based? Don't know, maybe whether this is depending on the side, then I'd say not. Also, pre-gap length may refer to the sync zone, which is 12. Auto-gap3 is OK; we do not rely on exact gap lengths.

 

By the way, I wonder how you manage to format a disk with 1.4 MiB size with 250 kbit/s only. This must be 500 kbit/s.

 

The reason is that with 36 sectors per track, and each having 256 byte, plus some more for headers and gaps (typically plus 84), and 16 cells per byte, you get about 200000 cells per track, and a track is exactly 0.2 seconds long (with 300 rpm), so every cell must be 1 us, or, taking again 2 cells for each data bit, both require 2 us, which is 500 kbit/s.

Okay I'll be sure to get one to those specs, I don't know why it worked but it did, though it took awhile to verify.



#96 BeeryMiller OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 10, 2018 11:12 AM

Okay I'll be sure to get one to those specs, I don't know why it worked but it did, though it took awhile to verify.

 

It took a while to verify because of your interleave/interlace set at 1.  Needs to be around a setting of 4 to cut down on the number of revolutions the disk would need to make.  The only time I would ever use an interlace of 1 on a Geneve would be if I was booting from floppy and had a skew setting of something like 3.  In that one and only use, you are loading MDOS as fast as the disk turns.  Once you get the overhead of MDOS, then it can no longer read in a disk that fast.

 

Beery



#97 RickyDean OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 10, 2018 11:18 AM

 

It took a while to verify because of your interleave/interlace set at 1.  Needs to be around a setting of 4 to cut down on the number of revolutions the disk would need to make.  The only time I would ever use an interlace of 1 on a Geneve would be if I was booting from floppy and had a skew setting of something like 3.  In that one and only use, you are loading MDOS as fast as the disk turns.  Once you get the overhead of MDOS, then it can no longer read in a disk that fast.

 

Beery

I figured that was it, it's been a long time since I messed with that type of stuff.  ;-)



#98 arcadeshopper OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 10, 2018 1:14 PM

          I did this using the settings on a version of the HxC tool I downloaded in April. In the first picture you see the settings, other settings I used error-ed after format. Then when I used these settings the second picture shows the outcome. I am including that format here now, this was formatted on a HxC, though I tried a Gotek on the first couple of attempts, with other settings.. I worked after I came in from working on one of my trucks, then from 8:30ish to 11:30ish I used my newly repaired Geneve to run the tests. In the Geneve picture, the bad sectors could be attributed to a problem I encountered with the HxC, It is not mounted, just laying there and the thing stopped being lit up for a bit, while verifying, maybe a bad power cable connection, and  I had to reload the image as a disk on the HxC, while the verification process was working.

 

with this config i get write errors (beep beep beep) on every track.. trying your hfe too



#99 arcadeshopper OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 10, 2018 1:25 PM

 

with this config i get write errors (beep beep beep) on every track.. trying your hfe too

 

interestingly I can't format your hfe either, but i can read/write to it :)  copied a file there and its there

 

 

/shrug



#100 RickyDean OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 10, 2018 1:27 PM

 

interestingly I can't format your hfe either, but i can read/write to it :)  copied a file there and its there

 

 

/shrug

Are you trying to format on a Gotek or HxC? Mine was done on the HxC.






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