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Looking to Hire Pad-hacker for joystick for 5200 & others

5200 Arcade stick shoryuken

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#1 tripletopper OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:46 PM

I am having a hard time finding a joystick pad hacker for an ambidextrous arcade stick for multiple consoles.   I am looking to hire someone to finish my dream stick.

 

Like a lot of 2600, INTV, 5200, Coleocvision, Astrocade, and 7800 players, I am right handed.  However most joysticks from the NES and beyond are let handed.

 

It's hard to find a right handed joystick for most systems.   Those who can't do hire.  I am kind of clumsy with internal electronic parts, especially if they are not intended to be manipulated by the end user.

 

I hired a joystick maker in 2009 and got a decent joystick, however it only worked for the Xbox 360.  It got temporarily ruined due to slapdsh design.   I have lots of other consoles, and reusing the parts saves money over building separate joysticks.

 

I'm looked at as a freak on Shoryuken.   i already have 2 strikes against me as far as stick modders are concerned, one is right handedness, and a second for wanting to play old systems as much as new systems and other games besides fighting games.   The third strike is I used my personal bad experiences and tried to design ways around them to make a user-friendly model, and most people want to do it in the most slapdash way possible.

 

Most people talk about custom art, some want a custom layout, but they will pay $200/joystick for one joystick that works with one system, and not think ahead OR behind. and pay $300-500 for one that works with 15 plus consoles.

 

If you want to see my design, and how I overcome certain obstacles in designing an ambidextrous stick, it is http://www.56ok.org/...trous/index.htm

 

Click the shoryuken link above to read a misunderstanding gone awry. I think the joystick maker I'm talking to is mean, and he thinks I'm crazy.    I'm the one looking to hire.   Looking for some outside opinions.   Also if you normally don't visit Shoryuken.com, don't leave a message there.  Just comment here.  Be kind to both of us, yet honest.

 

Any Joystick Pad-hacker on AtariAge.com who CAN do the 3 trickiest pad hacks, a 5200 digital pad hack, an intellivision pad hack, and a Colecovision Super action Padhack?  I need those 3, Astrocade, Coleco Standard (because Activision Decathlon and QBert's Qubes doesn't work on Super Action controls) 3DO, (because the Tototek adapter doesn't have daisy chaining,) Jaguar, and Playstation 2 Dual Shock 2, as well as a little work on my stick.

 

I'm looking to hire someone, after I factor in $200 for other console adapters I don't have, I got $300 I can pay now, and have an income that can't go away, but I can't pay in advance beyond $300.  I know $300 is just a starting point.  Anyone want to take this on or link to adapters of any kind of system to these 7? (not the PS2, that MUST be a hack to work with all my other systems.) PM me a phone number I can call if in the US, or email if you prefer.  And, yes, method of contact is an issue in this argument.



#2 edladdin OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue May 1, 2018 9:00 AM

I am having a hard time finding a joystick pad hacker for an ambidextrous arcade stick for multiple consoles.   I am looking to hire someone to finish my dream stick.

 

Like a lot of 2600, INTV, 5200, Coleocvision, Astrocade, and 7800 players, I am right handed.  However most joysticks from the NES and beyond are let handed.

 

It's hard to find a right handed joystick for most systems.   Those who can't do hire.  I am kind of clumsy with internal electronic parts, especially if they are not intended to be manipulated by the end user.

 

I hired a joystick maker in 2009 and got a decent joystick, however it only worked for the Xbox 360.  It got temporarily ruined due to slapdsh design.   I have lots of other consoles, and reusing the parts saves money over building separate joysticks.

 

I'm looked at as a freak on Shoryuken.   i already have 2 strikes against me as far as stick modders are concerned, one is right handedness, and a second for wanting to play old systems as much as new systems and other games besides fighting games.   The third strike is I used my personal bad experiences and tried to design ways around them to make a user-friendly model, and most people want to do it in the most slapdash way possible.

 

Most people talk about custom art, some want a custom layout, but they will pay $200/joystick for one joystick that works with one system, and not think ahead OR behind. and pay $300-500 for one that works with 15 plus consoles.

 

If you want to see my design, and how I overcome certain obstacles in designing an ambidextrous stick, it is http://www.56ok.org/...trous/index.htm

 

Click the shoryuken link above to read a misunderstanding gone awry. I think the joystick maker I'm talking to is mean, and he thinks I'm crazy.    I'm the one looking to hire.   Looking for some outside opinions.   Also if you normally don't visit Shoryuken.com, don't leave a message there.  Just comment here.  Be kind to both of us, yet honest.

 

Any Joystick Pad-hacker on AtariAge.com who CAN do the 3 trickiest pad hacks, a 5200 digital pad hack, an intellivision pad hack, and a Colecovision Super action Padhack?  I need those 3, Astrocade, Coleco Standard (because Activision Decathlon and QBert's Qubes doesn't work on Super Action controls) 3DO, (because the Tototek adapter doesn't have daisy chaining,) Jaguar, and Playstation 2 Dual Shock 2, as well as a little work on my stick.

 

I'm looking to hire someone, after I factor in $200 for other console adapters I don't have, I got $300 I can pay now, and have an income that can't go away, but I can't pay in advance beyond $300.  I know $300 is just a starting point.  Anyone want to take this on or link to adapters of any kind of system to these 7? (not the PS2, that MUST be a hack to work with all my other systems.) PM me a phone number I can call if in the US, or email if you prefer.  And, yes, method of contact is an issue in this argument.

 

FWIW, we are just getting started on design of a 5200 arcade controller that will be ambidextrous, with the stick in the center and duplicate pairs of fire buttons on left and right.  I'm really slow, though, so it will be months and months before I have anything to offer the community.

 

Ed



#3 tripletopper OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue May 1, 2018 7:49 PM

 

FWIW, we are just getting started on design of a 5200 arcade controller that will be ambidextrous, with the stick in the center and duplicate pairs of fire buttons on left and right.  I'm really slow, though, so it will be months and months before I have anything to offer the community.

 

Ed

 


Edladdin, Sounds good, but I don't need an actual joystick, I just need the board interface.  I can work with a lot of different formats.

 

One format is Fight Stick db25 (where 8 of the pins on a PS2 include 4 directions of Left Stick, and 4 directions of the right stick, plus 4 shoulders, 4 face, 4 directions, 3 aux buttons, a ground and a voltage.) And the same DB 25, since they are single input fight sticks, can have 12 keypad buttons, 4 direcitons, 2 buttons, 3 aux buttons, and voltage and ground.) where 12 keypads are like 12 directions and buttons on the PS2.

 

Other formats that can be used are PS2, and there are other formats that can work off PS2 controllers that can be used, like anything a PS2 can be converted to, like USB PC/Mac/PS3/360/PS4/One.  Someone elsewhere on AtariAge was considering Jaguar to 5200 adapter.

 

As for an ambidextrous joystick I got 2 issues.   One is button flipping, where if there is a concept of main and second button, like most games, or if there's a concept of left and right, like in these games: Tutankham, Pac Land, Side Arms if you force an index-to-index map, you'll have backward fire buttons.

 

Second, is it easier to have a flippable arcade joystick, and have 2 ports to plug out of and have a movable number keypad that can be shifted left or right, of if you want to include a keypad, you have to find the cheapest thing to put in the middle, either Joystick or 12 button keypad + aux buttons, and design both side outward.

 

Can you do the pad hacking?   I assume it's easier to pad hack with a db25 standard than with a coded joystick standard, just complete the circuit to wire the button/direciton needed.   If so maybe I can hire you to do my job. I got $300 as a starting point for your labor.

 

I know you did a version of the Genesis->7800 controller adapter.  What's the difference between yours and the one from best-electronics-ca.com, the official Atari repair and new-old-stock company after the crash.  You were also discussing a Genesis-> Colecovison adapter (don't know if it's actually made, also not sure if it works with the 2 games I have that don't work with Super Action controllers. QBert's Qubes and Activision Decathlon?)

 

An easy project is a Genesis-> Astrocade adapter, because it's just a simple pin swap for the joystick.   Of course you can't use the paddle and joystic at the same time without a specially made controller.

 

FInally a tough onwe, an 8-way INTV controller?



#4 edladdin OFFLINE  

edladdin

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Posted Wed May 2, 2018 12:54 PM

Hi!

 

I am not your guy for the pad hack.  I'm not an engineer, so I have to hire a colleague to do the hard stuff. Your $300 would end up going to him, so you're better off to find a person who can do the work directly.

 

That's an interesting idea, of flipping the case.  It would not be a great fit for my enclosures, which are either sloped or hinged.   On my ambidextrous Supreme 78s, I just wire the inner button as B1, and the outer one as B2.  Likewise, I just built a 4 button Retro Pi on a Supreme panel for my sister, and the 4 button layout was mirrored from left to right.

 

As for your other questions:

 

The Best Electronics adapter does not provide two button support. I called to check with Brad on that before getting started. If it did, I would never have gone to the trouble to make one of our own.  I would have just bought one of his.

 

The Genesis to CV adapter did not get off the ground.  The CV controller uses all those diodes to convert switch signals into codes that the console recognizes. One side effect of this is that the CV controller does not have a true "common" or ground wire in the controller.  The stick and button 1 share a return leg, while the other button(s) all share a second return leg.  So there was no easy way to build an I/O board to interface with the Genesis controller, which uses direct positive-to-ground connections for the D-pad and buttons B and C, plus a little onboard encoder for A, X-Z, and function controls.

 

Astrocade is not really on my radar.

 

Intellivision is a possibility.  I've located a hall effect joystick that could deliver true 16-way zone action, but its not cheap. 

 

Best wishes,

 

Ed

 

 

 

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#5 tripletopper OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed May 2, 2018 6:53 PM

Hello Edladdin:  (I'm not going to bother copying your quote but I am addressing a couple things from them)

 

First I know the Colecovision and 7800 controls default to a 2600 controller when plugged into a 2600.  Likewise a 2600 controller can work on one-button CV and 7800 games.  I understand the Genesis was designed to work with the Master System, even a few Brazilian Master System games use a 6-button controller.   Does the Genesis and Master System controller default to a one-button controller on any compatible 9 pin machine and can be used as a 1-button controller on any of them (like 7800,CV, and 2600)?  And the reverse, where those controller are acceptable on a 1 button game?

 

If that's the case, then a Gneesis is seen asa standard 9-pin one button joystick on foreign sticks, the probably the easiest adapter to make would be a 2600->Astrocade adapter.  This is of course assuming you don't need the paddle along with the joystick.   I believe the only game that actually takes advantage of the controller is the on-board Gunfight. I think all other games that use a josytick as the primary control don't use the paddle at all.   There was a paddle game, the equivalent to Video Olympics that used a paddle to move up and down, where you have to be pinpoint accurate, and pressing left and right puts you in a more offensive or defensive position.   I haven't seen an advantage to playing closer to the center, I think it was just something different to give the Bally "Pong" a different identity, and to avoid a litigious Atari.  SInce most arcade games would be better with an 8 way stick, except for paddle-speciifc games, all you need is joystick directions and one action button. This website shows the pin mapping.  No circuitry necessary, just do a pin swap.  Hopefully it will work with ANY 9-pin controller in one-button mode.

 

I found a 7800 controller does work on a Colecovision, even in 2 button mode.... as long as you don't need both buttons at the same time.  The most obvious game you'll notice this effect in is Tutankham.  You can't use the smart bomb, but you can fire left and right.

 

Also maybe a cheap version for the intellivision controller would be 8 way.   I mainly want to use it for Burgertime, Lock N Chase, and other 2/4/8 way games.  i heard the only game where a true 16 way joystick would become a NECESSITY is Vectron.  In sports games, you lose a little subtlety and exactness but is not a requirement.

 

The weird thing about an INTV controller is that all 12 keypad buttons and all 16 directions are mapped to 5 pins.   One pin is the "Joystick Yes?" pin. If it's on, then the other 4 pins determine the direction.  There is a default direction which is all zeroes  One bit adds 180 degrees in one direction, another pin adds 90, anorther pin adds 45, and the final pin adds 22.5 2^4=16  Meanwhile if the "Joystick Yes" pin is no, then the other 4 pins determine the key pressed.   12 are reserved for the 12 keys, 1 is reserved for a code for no joystick or button pressure, another one is reserved for the pause combination. (I never had an Intellivision until the thrift store 90s, so I don't know what the pause combinaiton is.) and there's 2 other reserved combinations.  Of course pressing 2 buttons simultaneously or a joystick and one or more buttons can result in unpredictable results.  Some instruciton booklets warn you of this.

 

Finally, I don't know if I understand the nature of pad-hacking correctly, but I thought you have to be LESS of an electrical engineer to get it to work.  You, Edladdin, are doing something much tougher, recreating the circuit to work from whole cloth.  I thought the whole point of pad hacking was to find where the pressure point where the circuit connects upon movement, and move the on-off switch closer to your external joystick.  If you don't mess with the controller PCB, and keep the controller intact, and you have a working controller you're willing to sacrifice on the altar of the god of higher scores, and you don't care about the cosmetics of the carcus, and you're no longer planning to use it as a stand alone controller, then this makes much more sense.   You as the pad hacker doesn't have to figure out engineering of the controller to the chips, you just have to move the variable actuation point from the real joystick to your hand-made ergonomic joystick.  If you didn't know the Playstation 2 signal coding, all you had to do is wire the left to the left, the x to the x, and organize it right, and you've basically moved the switch to your new joystick.

 

If I'm right, if your working joystick does work, then you're just using the same chips and moving the variable actuation location.   Is it true that this is easiest to do if your new joystick is in a one-wire-one-signal format.   Heck even the Undamned adapter can do a USB/PS3/ maybe 360 stick and convert it into one-wire-one-signal setup.  Is it true if you want to swap the buttons for the games, to be sure you can do it in, the easiest way to do it is in the one-wire-one-signal mode.

 

About your 2 button joysticks, are they mapped index-to-index (BA J AB), or are they mapped left-to-left (AB J AB)?  If it works for left handed sticks as intended for all games in button right mode, then most games work index-to-index, but Tutankham, Pac-Land and Side Arms work left-to-left, and in your default mode (if you use index-to-index), would be mapped backwards, I think the Atari 7800 and MAYBE the the Master System might be easy to fix with a middle pin swapping device. Just wire A in to B out and B in to A out.   Turbo Grafx 16 might be coded so it's not as simple as a pin swap.  Sinfce I assume it's easiest to correct before it gets encoded, maybe a sliding switch would align the wires to work both ways without re-engineering, when they are in one-wire-one-signal mode.  That's why I was trying to request a DB25 "Telephone Operator Board" where I just hook up one RCA (if possible, otherwise 3.5 mm, but I had a problem with KY Enterprises' 3.5 adapters, and their idea of customer service was fix it yourself, so sorry for not feeling secure about 3.5 mm connectors) M/M from one joystick input to one pad hack output.   And then connecting them via DB25, (enough for a Colecovision Super Action or a PS2 controller if analog directions are mapped a pin per direction)  Now I will no longer be hostage to games being unable to swap buttons. and it should work for almost everything not analog.  Most NES game

 

I don't want to be at the mercy of a repairman whose work lasted one week, and got shipped and lasted one week more.  I've had bad experience with customs made joysticks, and people on Shoryuken complain I'm too whiny and specific.  I've had bad experiences, and I learned from them.  I think all-in-all I came up with the smartest way to do an ambidextrous joystick.  I've experienced the pitfalls, so I know how to avoid them.  One of them said he wanted to do business via email.  I told him I prefer phone because I can react to you, explain things when needed, and get your understanding right away so I don't have to explain it 100 different ways to convey exactly what I'm looking for.   He says he needs a searchable text record so he can look up conversations and see if he messed up, and to show me proof if he thought I was trying to screw if.   I came up with a suggestion that fulfills both our needs.  Instant private text chat sequence, like AIM, or AOL Instant Messenger, before that closed down.  Now that that's gone what would be a good equivalent.   All he has to do is copy and save the entire conversation when done, and he has his searchable copy ad I have quicker ping times.   The only reason why I expound is because i get no reaction from the other side.   If I give too little information, that implies, "do it whatever way you want when you fulfill my request".  And he complains my texts are too long.   I just know when I had my right handed joystick, I want nothing to get in the way of it working right.

 

A different guy was over-engineering it so that multiple consoles can be operated at once.   If I didn't ask for this engineering, why do I have to pay for it?  I have a reason for every request I have.   This other guy couldn't explain why controlling multiple consoles at once was cheaper, easier laborwise, and sturdier construction wise than daisy chaining one at a time.  It also increases dependence on the engineer.   As Montgomery Scott said when he sabotaged the Excelsior, "The more they overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to clog the drain."  I know as separate units, if the telphone operator board doesn't work, just don't play games where I have to customize buttons.  They made the button switching portion integrated so that if that failed, the whole thing has to be taken in.  I couldn't use it without the button swapping feature.  I tried to pick the default operation that was used most, index-to-index, which should work for over 95% of games, and if the button swapper fails, I just ease up on those games.

 

Originally I wanted every controller PCB pad hacked.  Then I had a PS2 Street Fighter Anniversary Stick, which I eventually swapped north and south, east and west, and punches with corresponding kicks, and guess what, it makes a good right handed stick.  So I decided to try adapters from PS2 to other consoles.   Every time they work well.   I currently got ones for Dreamcast w VMU, Game Cube, Xbox, Xbox 360, PS3, Wii Claasic, Wii U Classic, Xbox One and Switch. I'm planning to buy more, for Saturn, N64, SNES, Genesis 6 Button, Turbo Grafx 16, NES, Master System, Atari 7800.  The ones I need manually pad hacked are Jaguar, 3DO (because the Tototek adapter doesn't have a daisy chain port, and the 3D Zero adapter doesn't work for over 10% of my collection, literally one game out of less than 10), 5200, Colecovision Standard, (as you might know by testing,  Edladdin, QBert's Qubes and Activision Decathlon doesn't work with the Super Action controller) Colecovision Super Action, Intellivision, and Astrocade.  But the keystone for over 15 systems is the PS2 Dual Shock 2.

 

I wrote to this one guy telling him his job is a heck of a lot shorter.  And he complains that $300 is too little, when I specifically told him that might be a starting point, meaning more may come in the future, and he didn't have to do work until he get paid.   I don't know how tolerant Atariage is of language, but this guy is a total "eleventh finger of friendship"

 

So Edladdin, if you can me in contact with this guy, I got $300 ready to go on this project.   If you want to, pick a forum where we can text chat, and see if this is good for you and your hack guy.

 

Nice talking to you.

 

P.S.  I thought a Genesis controller was a one-button 7800 controller by default anyway.  You should be able to plug a Genesis and play single button games.   If the Best Electronics adapter is not a 2 button adapter, why do you need it, even knowing it's single button?







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