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Flight for Nordlicht intro released.


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#76 Heaven/TQA OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 25, 2018 11:43 AM

1984 And why it is important...

Computers were picking up in 80s.... coding them in assembly mostly unknown to the masses... sure they had de re Atari etc but

lets see what LFG did (yeah fulltime)

Handling 3D Maths on 6502 is still hard task and only few mastered it at that time (elite, star raiders to some extend, encounter, battle zone...)

Now the guys did not only 3D maths but invented fractal shit line.... figured out filling screen with a intelligent ORA filler to give the illusion but only setting few dots....

Now the did rotation.... plus clipping lines.... now even further they invented animation system (rof pilot)... then faking up/down turning by simply scrolling....

Sound and atmosphere... as Lukas said... 50% of a movie entertainment is caused by sound and music... same on RoF....

Now they have implemented 3D bunkers shooting at you in 3D.... they have a flight physics engine with sink rate etc....

If you look at RoF in detail there is so much inside... sure big budget but they definitely were good guys coding it...

Plus Carpenter know how from Boeing labs, 3D pioneer stuff, ILM knowledge what is hold in scifi action.... how to even use optic physics... have you realized that the screen colors change to blend you as viewer when shoots appear? This has used in movies. So you got automatically immersed and you get focused. And the sound fx where designed perfectly to the screen play....

I could continue on and on...

#77 Heaven/TQA OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 25, 2018 11:46 AM

Somehow reminds me Rares story of Donkey Kongs Country with CGI rendered sprites etc.

#78 Heaven/TQA OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 25, 2018 12:03 PM

Ah and another little detail... have you spotted that the panel is rounded and the engine renders left and right of the panel? So its not like in most games and even in mines that panel gfx is simply put there and switched. No the gfx is got rendered into parts of the panel, too, to give seem less impression....

Just grab the game and play it (on NTSC... its faster there)

#79 Heaven/TQA OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 25, 2018 2:40 PM



#80 Heaven/TQA OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 25, 2018 2:41 PM



#81 emkay ONLINE  

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Posted Sat May 26, 2018 2:00 AM

Ah and another little detail... have you spotted that the panel is rounded and the engine renders left and right of the panel? So its not like in most games and even in mines that panel gfx is simply put there and switched. No the gfx is got rendered into parts of the panel, too, to give seem less impression....

Just grab the game and play it (on NTSC... its faster there)


You're about Rescue on Fractalus?
It really runs faster on NTSC Ataris.
And, meanwhile I'm guessing to understand what I see when such games run on the C64.
It's running at the same speed on PAL and NTSC there. It's just the "10 frames" or 6/5 of the graphics were put in between full frames, due to the C64's character graphics. Resulting in regular unfinished images and in between popping up parts of the graphics.
The Atari just works at a slower speed than the PAL machine could offer, just by the fixed vertical blank. I was mentioning it in the past already. The PAL Atari sleeps for about 20% in any NTSC optimized game.

Edited by emkay, Sat May 26, 2018 2:03 AM.


#82 Heaven/TQA OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 26, 2018 2:47 AM

Yeah as it is tied to VBL.... long time i looked at the 5200ntsc version that it is signifant faster...

And as the physics engine is in VBL it gets updated 60x per frame which increases responsiveness, too.

#83 Heaven/TQA OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 26, 2018 2:48 AM

Btw I have no idea how you could make the pal version actually faster as its in the VBL.... any ideas?

#84 emkay ONLINE  

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Posted Sat May 26, 2018 3:43 AM

Two calculations per frame? Run calculations in the VBI time 2 times?

#85 Heaven/TQA OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 26, 2018 6:45 AM

Vladr.... there was no reference book ;)

https://www.nowgamer...e-on-fractalus/

#86 emkay ONLINE  

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Posted Sun May 27, 2018 3:10 AM

Again to the speedup for PAL computers:
In a raw guess, they did filling of the screen double buffered, cleaning the memory and filling the graphics by a guessed delay for the VB on NTSC machines. So there is an expectable amount of calculation results for creating the next image.
That's where the PAL machine has it's drawback.
The expected calculations have been done, the image waits for the "6 fps" result ...

29833 - 4800 = 25033 NTSC
35400 - 4800 = 30600 PAL

coarse cycles per frame and what to expect

NTSC Version 6 fps
PAL Version not optimized 5 fps
PAL Version optimized 7 fps

C64 4 FPS ;)
C64 "Optimizations" on the Atari 8 fps

#87 Heaven/TQA OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun May 27, 2018 3:55 AM

I had a long chat with Charles Kellner who wrote actually the 6502 versions of RoF, Eidolon and Koronis Rift.

 

and what he told me I can say that the code itself is top notch with a lot of tricks... He remembers a lot of details.



#88 emkay ONLINE  

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Posted Sun May 27, 2018 3:58 AM

I had a long chat with Charles Kellner who wrote actually the 6502 versions of RoF, Eidolon and Koronis Rift.
 
and what he told me I can say that the code itself is top notch with a lot of tricks... He remembers a lot of details.


They always remember the C64 version, as it seems.

#89 Heaven/TQA OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun May 27, 2018 5:00 AM

doesn't matter as long as Charlie is remembering all maths details which I am interested in. as he wrote all versions (apple2,atari,c64)... the core of the game is the same while the rendering is "custom" per machine.



#90 emkay ONLINE  

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Posted Sun May 27, 2018 5:19 AM

doesn't matter as long as Charlie is remembering all maths details which I am interested in. as he wrote all versions (apple2,atari,c64)... the core of the game is the same while the rendering is "custom" per machine.

It DOES matter because the C64 version doesn't get a slowdown in PAL.




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