Heaven/TQA Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 1984 And why it is important... Computers were picking up in 80s.... coding them in assembly mostly unknown to the masses... sure they had de re Atari etc but lets see what LFG did (yeah fulltime) Handling 3D Maths on 6502 is still hard task and only few mastered it at that time (elite, star raiders to some extend, encounter, battle zone...) Now the guys did not only 3D maths but invented fractal shit line.... figured out filling screen with a intelligent ORA filler to give the illusion but only setting few dots.... Now the did rotation.... plus clipping lines.... now even further they invented animation system (rof pilot)... then faking up/down turning by simply scrolling.... Sound and atmosphere... as Lukas said... 50% of a movie entertainment is caused by sound and music... same on RoF.... Now they have implemented 3D bunkers shooting at you in 3D.... they have a flight physics engine with sink rate etc.... If you look at RoF in detail there is so much inside... sure big budget but they definitely were good guys coding it... Plus Carpenter know how from Boeing labs, 3D pioneer stuff, ILM knowledge what is hold in scifi action.... how to even use optic physics... have you realized that the screen colors change to blend you as viewer when shoots appear? This has used in movies. So you got automatically immersed and you get focused. And the sound fx where designed perfectly to the screen play.... I could continue on and on... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 Somehow reminds me Rares story of Donkey Kongs Country with CGI rendered sprites etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 Ah and another little detail... have you spotted that the panel is rounded and the engine renders left and right of the panel? So its not like in most games and even in mines that panel gfx is simply put there and switched. No the gfx is got rendered into parts of the panel, too, to give seem less impression.... Just grab the game and play it (on NTSC... its faster there) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 (edited) Ah and another little detail... have you spotted that the panel is rounded and the engine renders left and right of the panel? So its not like in most games and even in mines that panel gfx is simply put there and switched. No the gfx is got rendered into parts of the panel, too, to give seem less impression.... Just grab the game and play it (on NTSC... its faster there) You're about Rescue on Fractalus? It really runs faster on NTSC Ataris. And, meanwhile I'm guessing to understand what I see when such games run on the C64. It's running at the same speed on PAL and NTSC there. It's just the "10 frames" or 6/5 of the graphics were put in between full frames, due to the C64's character graphics. Resulting in regular unfinished images and in between popping up parts of the graphics. The Atari just works at a slower speed than the PAL machine could offer, just by the fixed vertical blank. I was mentioning it in the past already. The PAL Atari sleeps for about 20% in any NTSC optimized game. Edited May 26, 2018 by emkay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted May 26, 2018 Author Share Posted May 26, 2018 Yeah as it is tied to VBL.... long time i looked at the 5200ntsc version that it is signifant faster... And as the physics engine is in VBL it gets updated 60x per frame which increases responsiveness, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted May 26, 2018 Author Share Posted May 26, 2018 Btw I have no idea how you could make the pal version actually faster as its in the VBL.... any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 Two calculations per frame? Run calculations in the VBI time 2 times? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted May 26, 2018 Author Share Posted May 26, 2018 Vladr.... there was no reference book https://www.nowgamer.com/the-making-of-rescue-on-fractalus/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 Again to the speedup for PAL computers: In a raw guess, they did filling of the screen double buffered, cleaning the memory and filling the graphics by a guessed delay for the VB on NTSC machines. So there is an expectable amount of calculation results for creating the next image. That's where the PAL machine has it's drawback. The expected calculations have been done, the image waits for the "6 fps" result ... 29833 - 4800 = 25033 NTSC 35400 - 4800 = 30600 PAL coarse cycles per frame and what to expect NTSC Version 6 fps PAL Version not optimized 5 fps PAL Version optimized 7 fps C64 4 FPS C64 "Optimizations" on the Atari 8 fps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted May 27, 2018 Author Share Posted May 27, 2018 I had a long chat with Charles Kellner who wrote actually the 6502 versions of RoF, Eidolon and Koronis Rift. and what he told me I can say that the code itself is top notch with a lot of tricks... He remembers a lot of details. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 I had a long chat with Charles Kellner who wrote actually the 6502 versions of RoF, Eidolon and Koronis Rift. and what he told me I can say that the code itself is top notch with a lot of tricks... He remembers a lot of details. They always remember the C64 version, as it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted May 27, 2018 Author Share Posted May 27, 2018 doesn't matter as long as Charlie is remembering all maths details which I am interested in. as he wrote all versions (apple2,atari,c64)... the core of the game is the same while the rendering is "custom" per machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 doesn't matter as long as Charlie is remembering all maths details which I am interested in. as he wrote all versions (apple2,atari,c64)... the core of the game is the same while the rendering is "custom" per machine.It DOES matter because the C64 version doesn't get a slowdown in PAL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThanosTitan Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 doesn't matter as long as Charlie is remembering all maths details which I am interested in. as he wrote all versions (apple2,atari,c64)... the core of the game is the same while the rendering is "custom" per machine. A very good day to you Sir, I hope you are doing Great Sir, Can you please email me at - Dave.Bowman.1950@gmail.com I would like to ask if you would like to write the PureBasic Code to the 3D Terrain Engine of Koronis Rift ? I can pay for this project Hope to hear from you soon Thank you very much for your time and kind help Kind Regards as Always Dr. David Bowman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snicklin Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Be careful with the above post. It is coming from a person who appears to have an English name but their English doesn't read like an English speaker. It is also their first post. I smell a rat, be careful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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