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ProDOS Problem


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#1 DistantStar001 OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu May 17, 2018 11:13 PM

I'm running into an odd problem.  My Apple //e won't load any ProDOS disks.  I've tested each disk on my //c, and //gs, and they work fine, but  if it's ProDOS, my //e won't load it.



#2 david__schmidt OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 18, 2018 7:42 AM

What are the symptoms?  Can you describe what happens when you try?



#3 DistantStar001 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 18, 2018 12:43 PM

Occasionally it will simply say "Unable to load ProDOS," but most of the time the disks actually load for a few seconds before stopping, and displaying some odd text at the top of the screen.  The errors are as follows:

 

ADTPro/ProDOS Master/Pasport Utilities (5.25 Disk II, Slot 5, or 6):

0DF8-    A=10  X=C8    Y=C4   S=F5 (or S=EE)

*

AppleWorks 4.0 (3.5 UniDisk, Slot 6 only)

0C90-    A=00  X=C8    Y=00   S=F3

*

These disks also display "APPLE II" along with the version of ProDOS, and a date in the middle of the screen, and Apple copyright info at the bottom.

 

Bank Street Writer Plus (5.25 Disk II, Slot 5, or 6): tree bwoop sounds (I really don't know how else to describe them), and then:

0C7F-    A=00  X=C8    Y=C4   S=F5

*

There is nothing else on the screen.

 

Bank Street Writer III (5.25 Disk II, Slot 5, or 6) gets nothing but bwoop sounds, still  no picture (not even Apple //e).

 

Some others (usually macros add ons for AppleWorks) it just spins the drive, and nothing else.  Apple //e remains at the top of the screen.  This is only with the 5.25 Disk II.

 

All these disks have been tested on my //c, and //gs.  AppleWorks 4.0 has errors in load, but the //gs can work around them.  The //c not so much, but usually I get the expected "Unable to load ProDOS" message.  Also the bwoops from Bank Street Writer III are present on the //c, and //gs, but the program still loads.  Bank Street Writer Plus loads without issue.

 

Also I have tried not having both controller cards installed at the same time, but the malfunctions persist.


Edited by DistantStar001, Fri May 18, 2018 12:46 PM.


#4 R.Cade OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 18, 2018 9:12 PM

Which version of ProDOS and is the IIe enhanced (65c02)?

 

ProDOS 2.x (well, classic versions, not the new 2.4+) required a IIe enhanced, while 1.x will run on an original IIe, or a II with language card.


Edited by R.Cade, Fri May 18, 2018 9:13 PM.


#5 david__schmidt OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 18, 2018 10:49 PM

Sounds like a hardware problem with the IIe's memory.  You might want to run internal diagnostics (see this if you have an enhanced IIe) or create a diagnostics disk and run that.


Edited by david__schmidt, Fri May 18, 2018 10:49 PM.


#6 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri May 18, 2018 11:16 PM

Another easy thing (and always recommended) thing to do is clean the drive heads. I've seem similar errors, and a simple head cleaning fixed it right up.



#7 DistantStar001 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 19, 2018 12:12 PM

This is a //e enhanced.  Anything after v2 seems to be giving me problems.  I found an old apple //c tour disc with v1.1, and it booted fine.  Interestingly, when I bootstrapped ADTPro with v2.0.2 over the cassette line it booted  from a v2.0.2 system disk without a problem, and Bank Street Writer Plus gave me a splash screen.  After that, it was acting up again.  It took me forever to get it to run an internal diagnostic (even without the keyboard plugged in), but eventually I got it to run, and this is what I got:  

 

*RAM   01000000

 

I'm guessing that means one of my ram chips is bad.  Also, given that there are 8 chips, and 8 digits, can I assume that my //e is trying to tell me which one?  If so, then is it the second from the right, or second from the left, when the keyboard is facing towards me? (7 or 12 in fronton it?)  And finally, if this assumption is correct, where do I go to get a replacement (other than another //e)?


Edited by DistantStar001, Sat May 19, 2018 12:22 PM.


#8 DistantStar001 OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat May 19, 2018 12:25 PM

While I'm at it, would these be the same type of ram chips in my Applied Engineering RamFactor card?  I've always wanted to max that out.



#9 trash_44fr OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun May 20, 2018 9:50 AM

Hello,

RAMFactor uses 41256 (i.e. 256 Ko) chips while Apple //e uses 4164 (i.e. 64 Ko).

Both chips can easily be obtained at electronic stores (Mouser, Jameco, Digi-key, ...) or eBay.



#10 DistantStar001 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon May 21, 2018 7:51 PM

I replaced the RAM chip, and on the last diagnostic it gave me an MMU error.  It loaded a ProDOS startup disk, but when I tried Bank Street Writer Plus, it loaded the splash screen, and then it just spun the disk, and nothing else.  I tried the backup disk, and I got a similar error listed above.  After that, *UNABLE TO LOAD PRODOS* on everything I tried.  

 

The MMU seems to be a much harder component to find, but I think I might have located a generic substitute.  the part # is 8250, and is described as a "8250B COMMUNICATIONS INTERFACE-40 PIN DIP PACKAG" (sorry about the uppercase, I bitterly just copy/pasted from the website).  From the picture it seems to be the right size, and has the right number of pins, but I'd still like to know if it's the right part.  

 

I'd post the picture, but I'm not sure if it's copyrighted, so this is the url:  https://www.electron...cts/CHP8250.jpg



#11 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon May 21, 2018 7:57 PM

That will not work.



#12 DistantStar001 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon May 21, 2018 9:37 PM

Any ideas as to where I can obtain a replacement? Or the part #?  I tried searching the markings on the chip, but so far I've got nothing.



#13 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon May 21, 2018 10:07 PM

Best bet is ebay. Wait for someone to part-out a working Apple //e, or buy a motherboard and do-it-yourself.

 

Or, wait for someone to develop an FPGA/CPLD replacement.



#14 DistantStar001 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon May 21, 2018 10:20 PM

Thanks.  I guess it's kinda working for now, so I'll just have to declare victory for the moment, and wait until I can get the part/parts I need.


Edited by DistantStar001, Mon May 21, 2018 10:22 PM.


#15 DistantStar001 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon May 21, 2018 10:21 PM

I just realized that if I get a parts board, then I just bought a RAM chip for no good reason.



#16 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon May 21, 2018 10:33 PM

Not really. If you're playing with classic computers, you will eventually need some sort of parts bin. It's already becoming commonplace to buy two non-working consoles and mix-n-match parts to make 1 working console.



#17 DistantStar001 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon May 21, 2018 10:39 PM

Good point.





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