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2 button joystick ?


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#51 Bill Lange OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:12 PM

Does that work in any way at all with the computers?

 

 

 

Atari BASIC Reference Manual

 

See page H-14.



#52 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:29 PM

 

Atari BASIC Reference Manual

 

See page H-14.

just another case where joysticks could have been fashioned to give us multi button games but no one ever bothered, sort of like when using the numeric keypad to control games... so we are re inventing the wheel... (it wouldn't have been difficult at all to fashion a stick combining these into a traditional joystick with many buttons)..


Edited by _The Doctor__, Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:29 PM.


#53 Zonie OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:16 PM

This may be way off but has anybody had a look at the 2600 Star Raiders controller?

Does that work in any way at all with the computers? Anybody ever tried it with Star Raiders?

Technically that's a 12 button device being polled through the joystick port.

I know nothing about the inner workings but I'm very curious if this has ever been addressed.

Yes. That is the VTP. "Video Touch Pad" which is wired exactly like the keyboard controller and the kids controller. It works on a 3x4 matrix. It is the basis for option "C" in my schematic. They use the paddle lines with resistors to add digital lines.
Lower Left corner of this attachment depicts that.

Schematic_Atari2600_Accessories_1000.png


Edited by Zonie, Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:20 PM.


#54 R0ger ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:29 PM

Hm, doesn't it take full frame to read paddles ?



#55 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:50 PM

wasn't there another convention where you read the joystick and if it is lets say pushed to the right... that if left was then press at the same time right was already pressed it counted as a trigger for a third button.... and vice versa the button was wired to both left and right... you couldn't change direction until you released the fire button so it only was good for manual fire type games



#56 Zonie OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:46 PM

Had not heard of that one.



#57 ascrnet OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Feb 1, 2019 8:16 PM

Hi all,
new modified games :

  • Spy Hunter (2 buttons)
  • Reardoor (3 buttons)

As always the games can be downloaded from the GIT

regards


Edited by ascrnet, Fri Feb 1, 2019 8:16 PM.


#58 777ismyname OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 2, 2019 12:16 AM

I just got an extra Video Touch Pad in the mail for hacking up. I’d LOVE to have a 2 or 3 button joystick. Lack of existing game compatibility would not bother me, as it would mostly be for my own little games and such.

I did buy a Flashback 8 for $21 at Walmart a few days ago. The plan was to remove the parts of the sticks and snip the cords. I have a few parts for a MAME cabinet I never got around to. I was simply going to use joystick ports 1 and 2; using the port 2 stick’s cord and PCB for extra buttons by using the directional contacts and micro-switches to have a ton of switches for whatever came to mind. It would be a Frankenstein rigged up mess, for sure, but I’d have action buttons a plenty :)


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#59 Mr Robot ONLINE  

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Posted Sat Feb 2, 2019 3:52 PM

Don't hack up original hardware if it works, this sort of thing is easy to make. I'll be putting stuff on osh park for these soonish, when Chinese new year ends and AliExpress starts shipping parts again. 



#60 777ismyname OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 5, 2019 2:30 AM

It isn't easy for me, but I certainly want to learn! The last thing I soldered was a mod chip for my launch day PlayStation.

I do need some economical-ish soldering equipment. This is to be my year of Atari, if my preliminary estimates of the overpaying Uncle Sam are true.

Thank you for putting in the work to make this all possible!

Don't hack up original hardware if it works, this sort of thing is easy to make. I'll be putting stuff on osh park for these soonish, when Chinese new year ends and AliExpress starts shipping parts again. 


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#61 Mr Robot ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 5, 2019 11:03 AM

I got this in mid 2016 and I've done a LOT of soldering with it. This year I'm upgrading to a decent Weller but I can't recommend this $20 iron highly enough. The only thing I would say is to get some spare tips, they are cheap and it goes through them quite quickly (especially if you forget to turn the iron off and leave it on all night as I have done a few times now).

 

https://www.amazon.c...duct/B01C9P7HDQ



#62 Zonie OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Feb 5, 2019 7:30 PM

Get a good temp control unit like this.

Keep your tip clean, wipe it after each solder

Tin it when you put it away.

Don't melt plastic with it.

 

https://www.amazon.c...=soldering iron


Edited by Zonie, Tue Feb 5, 2019 7:31 PM.


#63 tebe OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 6, 2019 4:02 AM

SNES2JOY alternative

all components availible (TOM REV2, ADAPTER TOM - DB9 MALE/FEMALE, SNES USB PAD)

TOM REV2
https://allegro.pl/o...m-r2-7564988407

TOM ADAPTER (DB9 MALE/FEMALE)
https://allegro.pl/o...a600-6792681748

SNES USB PAD - KEY 'X' = FIRE ; KEY 'A' = FIRE2
https://allegro.pl/o...-hit-7082858454

#64 Magic Knight OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 6, 2019 5:13 AM

I had thought (for too long) of making a special CX78 joystick that would plug into both joystick ports - specifically for Spy Hunter.

 

For Spy Hunter - If a 2nd joystick is plugged in, it allows the special weapons to launch (oil, smoke or rocket). Pain when you try to steer and hold a 2nd joystick for this (especially if its a cx40)

 

It would be fairly simple to add another 9 pin tail to a CX78 and use the 2nd button for the weapon.  Even a cheap standard 80's type controller for standard joystick would do.

 

cx78.jpg

 

 



#65 Mr Robot ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 6, 2019 11:02 AM

Is there any impact with the keyboard controller being used as joystick input if there are two button pressed at the same time? Up/Left for example or would a button be required for the diagonals too, that would make wiring a conventional joystick a lot more tricky. 

 

 

I keep coming back to the PotX/PotY version for two extra buttons as the way to go. It's the simplest, multiple people have arrived at the same solution separately, there are existing games patched to use it. 



#66 R0ger ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 6, 2019 12:56 PM

That's my opinion too. Pot is the way to go imho. I also like the option to use one button as 'up'. So I'm thinking about 3 position switch - normal / up / pot.

 

Keyboard can't read 2 keys at once. It can read shift independently. So if you have games that only uses left, right and jump, like Manic Miner, it can be done. But not in general. Another option is to simply define 8 keys for 8 directions. Karateka uses something like that.



#67 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 6, 2019 1:00 PM

keyboard can read start select option shift and another key simultaneously ... not to mention shift ctrl and a key.

I can easily go in to keyboard test and hold the first example of all three function keys with shift and another key all held at the same time and it registers....

 

and in sparta the shift cntrl key combo is used as a utility to break out or reset or some such thing..

 

and myBIOS uses the shft ctrl key combo method for menu as well as cold and warm reset uses...

 

the best method still would be the method that uses the least resources leaving the balance for games speedy code and video... :)


Edited by _The Doctor__, Wed Feb 6, 2019 1:07 PM.


#68 Mr Robot ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 6, 2019 1:40 PM

By keyboard we mean the Atari keyboard controller, star raiders controller, kids controller. It only has a 3x4 matrix so you get conflicts with fewer buttons.

Edit: I think lm settled on the pot method. Time to start prototyping. I want to make a little pcb to simplify the wiring for beginners, it needs to have a way to choose left/right handed use, Ill add in the switch for fire/up.

How many buttons should be able to autofire?

Edited by Mr Robot, Wed Feb 6, 2019 1:47 PM.


#69 pajero_pn ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 6, 2019 1:45 PM

See:  Pad s(nes) 4 Atari  https://translate.go...pic.php?id=7842


Edited by pajero_pn, Wed Feb 6, 2019 1:45 PM.


#70 R0ger ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 6, 2019 1:47 PM

I don't even recall game which would need autofire ..



#71 Mr Robot ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 6, 2019 1:49 PM

Thatll make it simpler!

#72 Mr Robot ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 6, 2019 5:07 PM

See:  Pad s(nes) 4 Atari  https://translate.go...pic.php?id=7842

 

 

That requires QMeg 5.x? I could only find mention of QMeg4.04 on Atariki and an RC for 5.0 on Atariarea, dated 2010. 

 

How to hack old games to use new buttons?



#73 Zonie OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 6, 2019 7:41 PM

That's my opinion too. Pot is the way to go imho. I also like the option to use one button as 'up'. So I'm thinking about 3 position switch - normal / up / pot.

 

Keyboard can't read 2 keys at once. It can read shift independently. So if you have games that only uses left, right and jump, like Manic Miner, it can be done. But not in general. Another option is to simply define 8 keys for 8 directions. Karateka uses something like that.

Yeah. the ability to read two inputs at the same time was a question for me. If the way to go is Pot lines, let's agree on a format and create a standard. 

 

May I suggest: (Pins)

  • Use existing joystick direction lines as they are (1,2,3,4)
  • Use the existing fire button as it is for Action A (6)
  • Use the Right Paddle line for Action B (5)
  • Use Left Paddle as a Paddle for more in game options, like scrolling through a list, throttle control, etc. (9)
  • Add a switch to select between Pot or 3rd Action button on the Left Pot line.

Edited by Zonie, Wed Feb 6, 2019 7:43 PM.


#74 Zonie OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 6, 2019 8:45 PM

med_gallery_3653_1328_27044.jpg       gallery_3653_1328_39852.jpg

 

I goofed in the list in the post above this with regards to pin 5 & 9.


Edited by Zonie, Wed Feb 6, 2019 9:30 PM.


#75 Mr Robot ONLINE  

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Posted Wed Feb 6, 2019 9:37 PM

I think we shoud go with how acrnet has his wired. There are already patched games working with that. That looks like your diagram, but not the list in the previous post. Also a switch on fire 3 for up/fire, making that switch 3 way.




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