seastalker Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 For you lucky Falcon owners, may I pick your mind? I was solely an 800XL owner back in the 80s. I have a MIST to live my ST world now. In rock paper scissors, it looks like the falcon was the LAST Atari computer and spec-wise beats out the rest of the ST line, yes? Basically, is a Falcon 100% backwards compatible with the ST line or was it so BECAUSE it was IN the ST line, just the best of the best and maxed out? Also, did it run emulators to be backwards compatible with 400/800 XL/XE series or others like ZX Spectrum? Also, I can't escape the feeling that I heard once ago that there was more than one model of Falcon. I know the 030, but was there an 060? I'd love to know what upgrades and expansions have been out there since then. What would a fully maxed Falcon entail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidLittleMan Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Lot of questions at once. I'm not sure that you will be able to digest all answers so fast Nothing is 100% backwards compatible, and Falcon is much less than 100% in it. I would not say that it is ST line, maybe just because there was no clear ST line. Yes, it can run lot of ST SW, but maybe about 50% of it is what runs well. Some have speed problems, some just crash, freeze, some may have problems with sound, pic, etc. Partially it is because TOS version used in Falcon. Btw. Falcon is much slower than Atari TT. Just has more features -DSP, blitter, HW scroll, more colors ... Forget about emulating some XL or Spectrum on Falcon - those emulators are very limited, and machine is just not enough fast for it. There were Falcons with built in 60 MB 2.5 inch IDE drive - maybe that was called 060. Really not relevant today, with multi GB Flash cards. There are some accelerators for Falcon available. I don't see the point for it in 2018. Huh, answered almost all it ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari74user Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 (edited) No legitimate 060, only the prototypes, the Atari Falcon itself, then C-Lab took over with the C-Lab Falcon, C-Lab Falcon MKII and MKX which were all 030. The accelerator of choice these days for the Falcon are the CT6Xs, whether CT60, CT63 or CT60e which as the name suggests are 060 based. A beautiful machine, I am not really into emulators, I just can't get excited about them in the slightest for my tastes, useful, just don't come close in terms of user experience. It's all about the machines themselves, the ownership and collection. As for a fully maxed out Falcon, it's debatable, but arguably 14mb, bigger HD, possibly internal CF or SD via an IDE conversion,. On top of that, a CT60 of some flavour, the latest was the CT60e, 512mb of CT60 ram, and possibly a graphics card, Svetlana or SuperVidel. All makes a beautiful machine, arguably more beautiful. Edited May 26, 2018 by Atari74user Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seastalker Posted May 27, 2018 Author Share Posted May 27, 2018 Thanks for the specs and answers! So fascinated to hear more about it. It sounds more of a successor or new line and departure from the ST line, or dare I say similar to XL/XE departures from the original 400/800. Was there Falcon exclusive games and software? It's a chapter of Atari business strategy that would make for an interesting mini documentary on youtube. "Btw. Falcon is much slower than Atari TT. Just has more features -DSP, blitter, HW scroll, more colors ..." Those comparisons are pure gold and just what I am looking for in the history. I hope more videos get made on the falcon in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari74user Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 In some ways yes, the comparison could be argued as more of a departure as you say, like the 400/800 to XL/XE. Many do see the Atari 260ST through to Atari TT and Falcon as the ST line, they are of course all TOS based. However in terms of pure ST line, as mentioned by ParaniodLittleMan, they all have compatibility nuances, but there is compatibility, just not 100% between all models. There were Falcon compatible, enhanced and exclusive games. Not a great deal in real terms, but for example: http://christophe.bray.free.fr/informatique/falcon/falcon_jeux.htm If you want to sell your car and/or a kidney: https://www.ebay.com/itm/FALCON-030-Atari-Games-LlamaZap-Ishar1-3-DinoD-SteelT-Running4WD-MoonS-Gravon/263689578060?hash=item3d651fa64c:g:eY0AAOSwX7BaYIJB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seastalker Posted May 27, 2018 Author Share Posted May 27, 2018 Yeah- at those prices I will continue to live vicariously through youtube or someday at a Super Firebee or much later FPGA solution should one come to be. I do enjoy the study of Atari history all the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoidLittleMan Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 ... If you want to sell your car and/or a kidney: https://www.ebay.com/itm/FALCON-030-Atari-Games-LlamaZap-Ishar1-3-DinoD-SteelT-Running4WD-MoonS-Gravon/263689578060?hash=item3d651fa64c:g:eY0AAOSwX7BaYIJB Ahhh.... This is craziest offer I seen considering retro computing. Although, some millioners spent even more money on stupider things ... Good part is too: 'very good condition (personal opinion) ' My personal opinion is that there are big chances that min half of it will not work because age of floppies. But that's maybe not the point, because those games are available for free online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari74user Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Ahhh.... This is craziest offer I seen considering retro computing. Although, some millioners spent even more money on stupider things ... Good part is too: 'very good condition (personal opinion) ' My personal opinion is that there are big chances that min half of it will not work because age of floppies. But that's maybe not the point, because those games are available for free online. Truly crazy, everything seems to be 'rare' or limited these days! Even burgers come in Limited Edition, seriously, it's 'food'! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SoulBuster Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 As for a fully maxed out Falcon, it's debatable, but arguably 14mb, bigger HD, possibly internal CF or SD via an IDE conversion,. On top of that, a CT60 of some flavour, the latest was the CT60e, 512mb of CT60 ram, and possibly a graphics card, Svetlana or SuperVidel. All makes a beautiful machine, arguably more beautiful. I am almost there. My Falcon has a Wizztronics dual IDE adapter with a 32 Gig 1.8" PATA SSD, 14 megs ram, added FPU. The second ide port will be an SD adapter of some sort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari74user Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 I am almost there. My Falcon has a Wizztronics dual IDE adapter with a 32 Gig 1.8" PATA SSD, 14 megs ram, added FPU. The second ide port will be an SD adapter of some sort. That's cool, and whole lot of gig. I sourced my own dual IDE to CF adaptor and stuck a total of 8gb in my Falcon. It too has 14mb and an FPU, I managed to get one of the second batch of CT60e's, and sorted myself out with 512mb of DDR RAM and a 68060, just need a PSU, probably will be a Pico, then I will put it altogether, just haven't the time unfortunately, but looking forward to it. Hoping to get some 3D printing done for a nice neat PSU solution so everything is housed neatly with no bodges. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SoulBuster Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 That's cool, and whole lot of gig. I sourced my own dual IDE to CF adaptor and stuck a total of 8gb in my Falcon. It too has 14mb and an FPU, I managed to get one of the second batch of CT60e's, and sorted myself out with 512mb of DDR RAM and a 68060, just need a PSU, probably will be a Pico, then I will put it altogether, just haven't the time unfortunately, but looking forward to it. Hoping to get some 3D printing done for a nice neat PSU solution so everything is housed neatly with no bodges. Yeah, I need to either re-cap or replace my power supply. In either case, I will make the purchase from here: https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari74user Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Cool, I like Chis' (aka Exxos) stuff. Bought a whole load of stuff for my ST, inc. PSU, a wise choice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leech Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Mine got a little to fat, so I'll eventually be moving it into the Wizztronics case. To note; I'm not sure how much faster the TT030 is compared to a non-accelerated Falcon. It REALLY depends on what you're doing. For example, the TT030 is running a 32Mhz 68030 (usually, I believe the earliest models were 16Mhz still?), Falcon030 runs at 16Mhz. There was a prototype known as the Falcon040, which the Microbox case for that apparently was used to inspire the Playstation 2's case. The Falcon came with 4 or 14mb of RAM, TT can have up to 10mb ST ram and 256MB(I think) TT RAM. I know TOS 3.06 has issues with reading high memory though, so there are modified chips out there. But the Falcon has the DSP, plus 060 accelerators. With even just the stock 030 and the DSP you can play MP3s on it. Something an Amiga 4000 with an 060 can't do fully. I know, I have both. There is a dedicated mpeg decoder for the Amiga that makes it possible. That DSP is mighty impressive. Also, TT030 was limited to the standard ST modes (320x200@16, 640x200@4, 640x400@2) and TT Modes. (320×480@256, 640×480@16, and if you had the right ECL monitor, 1280x960@2). The Falcon, with the stock Videl can (with some software tweaks) potentially get as high as however much ram you have. Though that also means the higher resolution/colors the slower the display is. With SuperVidel you can get two 1920x1080 monitors set up nicely! I need to get mine all configured and set up, so I can do some things with Calamus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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