+evg2000 Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 No..they aren't the same speed. It is pretty much impossible to get a hold of 300ns ram in these day and times that are compatible. So Console5 uses 150ns speed ram. So the +5 RAM is faster than the original ram, but it really shouldn't matter because the ram is only going to process the data as fast as the VDP provides it. Having said that, I was able to confirm that my CVs where one works and the other does not are two different revisions. thanks for the info on the ram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 thanks for the info on the ram note I edited my post as I incorrectly stated the ram was 300ns when in fact it was 300ms on the original console. The ones that console5 offers for the upgrade are 120 and 150ms speed ram as that is all that can be commonly found for new. You can find 300ms ram but it would likely be pulls and thus used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swami Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Is there a playthrough to that point somewhere. I played for an hour tonight and finally got to the point where you have the sideways moving block with lever and wondering how close I am. I think this is the final screen of the demo, but no more time tonight. I have two AV modded CVs with LED and one also has a rocker switch added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 I haven't made one yet, but I guess I could. It really doesn't take me anytime at all to get to that part. But that is the spot we are talking about. You are supposed to crawl through on the right hand side before the block crushes you. On my H2 +5 RAM modded console Rick doesn't crawl through there and just does the crawling motion like he is stopped by something. That is the problem we are reporting. On my F1 revision all stock CV, Rick will crawl through there without any issues at all and that is when you start on Level 2 in the Pyramids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swami Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 I haven't made one yet, but I guess I could. It really doesn't take me anytime at all to get to that part. But that is the spot we are talking about. You are supposed to crawl through on the right hand side before the block crushes you. On my H2 +5 RAM modded console Rick doesn't crawl through there and just does the crawling motion like he is stopped by something. That is the problem we are reporting. On my F1 revision all stock CV, Rick will crawl through there without any issues at all and that is when you start on Level 2 in the Pyramids. Okay, no need then. That's where I got to, but I haven't figured out that screen, but I'll get through the tunnel (or not??) tomorrow, but need to get up early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Here is a walk through of level 1 and the issue being discussed. I have this first being demoed on my H2 revision with +5 ram and composite AV mod. Then I show what it should do as I play it on my F1 rev stock colecovision. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swami Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 NTSC game on NTSC consoles CV1: Composite mod LED mod CAN get past last demo screen to 2nd level CV2: Composite mod LED mod Socketed controller chips Rocker switch installed CANNOT get past last demo mode screen I would assume they have different board versions as well. Ill add more info after opening consoles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 NTSC game on NTSC consoles CV1: Composite mod LED mod Can get past last demo screen to 2nd leve CV2: Composite mod LED mod Socketed controller chips Rocker switch installed Cannot get past last demo mode screen Ill add more info after opening consoles Yep, get the revisions off the boards if possible. You might even be able to see it without having to remove the RF shielding. I got an email from the devs this morning, but couldn't quite understand it. They thanked me for the level 1 walkthrough vid I made and again suspect the ram timings on the replacement vram to be a possible suspect. They also stated that my comment about not being able to get past the second to last screen was found in the alpha version of the game, but was fixed. I've only had that issue happen once and it was actually on the fully stock CV that does get to level 2 with this game. That specific issue hasn't ever happened on my modded console. But the last half of the email was asking me if I had followed the dis-assembly and re-assembly instructions? I think they are wanting me to take pics of the full system boards but not sure on that. I guess I could crack them back open again and do this. Rather not...but if it helps to figure out what is going on, I'm all for it. I can tell you that I didn't see any physical difference between the two revs so nothing really stood out to me there. I can tell you that the reason I composite modded the CV that doesn't work with this game was because no matter what adjustments I made to the RF modulator, it would only produce a snow filled mostly black and white screen and even replacing the switch didn't resolve this. Composite modding it...did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swami Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Yep, get the revisions off the boards if possible. You might even be able to see it without having to remove the RF shielding. I got an email from the devs this morning, but couldn't quite understand it. They thanked me for the level 1 walkthrough vid I made and again suspect the ram timings on the replacement vram to be a possible suspect. They also stated that my comment about not being able to get past the second to last screen was found in the alpha version of the game, but was fixed. I've only had that issue happen once and it was actually on the fully stock CV that does get to level 2 with this game. That specific issue hasn't ever happened on my modded console. But the last half of the email was asking me if I had followed the dis-assembly and re-assembly instructions? I think they are wanting me to take pics of the full system boards but not sure on that. I guess I could crack them back open again and do this. Rather not...but if it helps to figure out what is going on, I'm all for it. I can tell you that I didn't see any physical difference between the two revs so nothing really stood out to me there. I can tell you that the reason I composite modded the CV that doesn't work with this game was because no matter what adjustments I made to the RF modulator, it would only produce a snow filled mostly black and white screen and even replacing the switch didn't resolve this. Composite modding it...did. As far as I know, neither of my CVs have the +5V VRAM upgrade, although it might have been added by some former owner and not mentioned when I bought it. So far, both of the glitches observed by people appear to be related to alternate versions of the game - alpha version and demo version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariBrian Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Not bug, it is an undocumented feature Sadly such a classic and funny statement now 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) Sadly such a classic and funny statement now And a feature that does appear to be some sort of DRM check since a dump of the cart that works on a CV does the same thing from a flash cart on the same CV and in emulation. So there is something that is triggering the demo mode on this. I just wish it was more obvious so we would know that is what is happening. I could see how the +5 RAM upgrade could cause it if the game is doing some calcs based on the RAM timings, but now we have Swami reporting it happening on one of his CVs that is comp AV modded and has the controller mux chips replaced in sockets. Far as I know the controller replacement chips are 1 to 1 replacements, and the comp AV mods don't normally require any hardware modification to the main PCB itself as you are only adding wires to points off the main logic and RF section to get the picture. And it doesn't explain why F18a modded consoles seem to work. I'm not familiar with the F18a upgrade, but does it replicate the vram timings exactly? I know that the f18a does circumvent the vram section completely so it wouldn't matter if you had bad vram chips or not with an f18a installed. That leads me to believe that the f18a is either mimicking the timings correctly or something else is causing this issue and the RAM upgrade doesn't have anything to do with it either. I could see differences in power supplies that might be flakey causing an issue however, I didn't mention this, but I'm using the exact same power supply in my video fro both CVs. If it isn't the +5 RAM doing it, then it has to be a difference in the revisions of the boards. This is like dealing with the 7800 now.... Edited July 18, 2018 by -^Cro§Bow^- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcadeVision Posted July 18, 2018 Author Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) Hello -^Cro§Bow^-, Please, understand that is again quite frustrating to ask you things by email to provide a support, and next having to read what you have understood on a forum for trying to get a tracking. 1- In your video you explain that you was sometime not able to pass the "before last screen", after using the dynamite to blast the ennemies. This event issue was detected 2 years ago on the "alpha" version and never more encountered since the VRAM timing was adjusted to fix some glitchs. 2- We have asked if you follow the technical instructions section IV (attached to the mail) for disasembly / assembly the ColecoVision? So, please read this PDF and let we know if you do that. That should be a clue to know if all peoples doing different mods gave a same problem. But sure, next, if you want to take pictures of your mainboards (both sides) you are welcome to provide them... By email! Thank you. Edited July 18, 2018 by ArcadeVision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Hello -^Cro§Bow^-, Please, understand that is again quite frustrating to ask you things by email to provide a support, and next having to read what you have understood on a forum for trying to get a tracking. That is because I'm not at home to be able to answer easily and I'm more interested in knowing whom else has this issue and the hardware they are playing it on. I'm not denying that the RAM upgrade is to blame, but I also know I'm not the only one with the issue so it is easier for me to see what is happening here in this thread. 1- In your video you explain that you was sometime not able to pass the "before last screen", after using the dynamite to blast the ennemies. This event issue was detected 2 years ago on the "alpha" version and never more encountered since the VRAM timing was adjusted to fix some glitchs. It only happened ONCE to me and it happened on the CV that does work and goes to level 2. I think that is just an odd glitch that happens. That issue was easy to work around by simply killing Rick off in some fashion causing that section to reload. It then didn't do it again. Another user here experienced the exact same issue on that second to last screen as well. But like me he was able to get past it by killing himself off and then going through that section again. 2- We have asked if you follow the technical instructions section IV (attached to the mail) for disasembly / assembly the ColecoVision? So, please read this PDF and let we know if you do that. That should be a clue to know if all peoples doing different mods gave a same problem. Again this doesn't make any sense? I know how to dissassemble the CV. All the mods done to them I've done myself and I've repaired quite a few over the years as well. The ONLY thing I do differently in taking one apart is to carefully separate the front and top shell without actually removing the front cover. Otherwise I'm not understanding what you are asking? The +5 RAM upgrade I did was by following the procedures on the Console5 website. As for the composite mod I don't recall right off hand where I got the instructions for that, but I know that most of the points for the composite mod board are taken from the RF modulator section. The Audio is taken from the capacitor near the edge of the PCB. So again I'm not understanding fully what you are asking regarding item #2. I'm trying to help here guys and I know it looks like I'm blasting this game and I'm really not trying to. It is just frustrating to me that no other games I've ever played both in cartridge form and on my flash carts have ever given me an issue. This is the first. And if it was isolated I would live with it and that would be it. But it isn't isolated so there is something here. I know you have it stated that it is intended to only be playable on unmodded consoles and I get that. To me the +5 RAM upgrade isn't really a mod so much as it is the common accepted standard repair for faulty vram modules on the CV. That ram upgrade mod has been around for a VERY long time and it is an incredibly common mod or I should say repair that is done on CVs. If the the +5 RAM mod is a cause then that gets documented and those that have that in place know it may not work. The issue with this again, is that many people buy these consoles as repaired...online through ebay or possibly from game shops like the one I have here in my home town. Those buying them might not be aware that any upgrades or repairs were done and so they would be buying thinking there shouldn't be any issues. It isn't a good experience when you buy something and not even know if it will work on your system or not. It becomes a double edged sword now...if you state there are issues with the game on modded systems using common mods done to repair consoles, then you risk losing sales to a consumer base who is concerned it might not work with their consoles. But if you don't and we don't find what exactly triggers this demo mode from kicking in, then you risk the anger of your customers buying the game who might not be aware that such repairs were done and could be the cause of their issue. I personally find the game to be excellent and very fun to play! That is perhaps the most frustrating part of it to me. I'm lucky to have a stock completely unmodded console that it seems to work just fine in to play it and will do so in that manner. But I do think the root cause of what mods if any are a problem instead of a blanket statement. Especially given that again not all who buy their systems may be aware that the systems have any kind of mod or repairs done to them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcadeVision Posted July 18, 2018 Author Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) That is because I'm not at home to be able to answer easily and I'm more interested in knowing whom else has this issue and the hardware they are playing it on. I'm not denying that the RAM upgrade is to blame, but I also know I'm not the only one with the issue so it is easier for me to see what is happening here in this thread. OK. Thank you for your time so. (we will do a copy/paste into our bug tracker) It only happened ONCE to me and it happened on the CV that does work and goes to level 2. I think that is just an odd glitch that happens. That issue was easy to work around by simply killing Rick off in some fashion causing that section to reload. It then didn't do it again. Another user here experienced the exact same issue on that second to last screen as well. But like me he was able to get past it by killing himself off and then going through that section again. OK. We think that is in all cases related to a bad event timing. Good that you was able to work around with your system. Again this doesn't make any sense? I know how to dissassemble the CV. All the mods done to them I've done myself and I've repaired quite a few over the years as well. In this case, sorry to look stupid from you, but it is the official Coleco process to be sure that all contacts and signals are properly restored. We don't ask if you (or others) know what you do, but if you do what it is intended, as random problem should be caused by a ground/shield discontinuity. I.E. the VDP clock is generated on ColecoVision by using a RLC circuit from the CPU clock... And a bad assembling could affect this. (the best was to do like on MSX and use a main clock for the VDP and next it's phy pin for a perfect CPU timing) EDIT: ColecoVision TECHNICAL REFERENCE MANUAL - (pdf's) w/ 7zip compression Edited July 18, 2018 by ArcadeVision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+5-11under Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Is there a demo ROM file available for testing? This could be very helpful. Edit: a demo that would show the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swami Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Is there a demo ROM file available for testing? This could be very helpful. Edit: a demo that would show the issue. Apparently, if you bought a copy of the game, you can request one from them. Not sure why they limit access to a short demo, unless the rest of the game is also there but blocked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Apparently, if you bought a copy of the game, you can request one from them. Not sure why they limit access to a short demo, unless the rest of the game is also there but blocked. i wasn't aware of that. But from what has been described, the demo does the exact same thing that happens on my CV that won't let me pass onto to level 2. So basically my video of the level 1 walkthrough ends just after midway because I'm not able to get through to the right on the last screen. So basically the first 6min or so of the video is what the demo looks and plays like. I don't believe the demo actually states demo on it anywhere. Would be curious to know if there is a file size difference between them though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chart45 Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 ok got my cart today... try on my f18a and it do nothing the game does not start... play on my adam work perfectly pass the screen to level 2... dump the cart burn the eprom game work on my f18a but dont pass to level 2 and dont pass to level 2 on the adam too so i dont know... maybe i will open my cart to see .. i will think about it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swami Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 i wasn't aware of that. But from what has been described, the demo does the exact same thing that happens on my CV that won't let me pass onto to level 2. So basically my video of the level 1 walkthrough ends just after midway because I'm not able to get through to the right on the last screen. So basically the first 6min or so of the video is what the demo looks and plays like. I don't believe the demo actually states demo on it anywhere. Would be curious to know if there is a file size difference between them though. I just say "apparently," based on these posts: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/279134-risky-rick-in-dangerous-traps-june-25th/?p=4071248 http://atariage.com/forums/topic/279134-risky-rick-in-dangerous-traps-june-25th/?p=4071561 http://atariage.com/forums/topic/279134-risky-rick-in-dangerous-traps-june-25th/?p=4071721 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swami Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 ok got my cart today... try on my f18a and it do nothing the game does not start... play on my adam work perfectly pass the screen to level 2... dump the cart burn the eprom game work on my f18a but dont pass to level 2 and dont pass to level 2 on the adam too so i dont know... maybe i will open my cart to see .. i will think about it... A rip of the rom will not work on any machine, except to the demo end, so that is universal. That the game does not start at all on the f18a is new. Doid you remove the SGM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chart45 Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 A rip of the rom will not work on any machine, except to the demo end, so that is universal. That the game does not start at all on the f18a is new. Doid you remove the SGM? no sgm and i got the f18a screen i will retry again later and cycle it on and off ti see if i can get it to work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swami Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 no sgm and i got the f18a screen i will retry again later and cycle it on and off ti see if i can get it to work Any mods done to the Adam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 A rip of the rom will not work on any machine, except to the demo end, so that is universal. That the game does not start at all on the f18a is new. Doid you remove the SGM? Which is why I think the game does some sort of check on what it is running on and either some revisions or some mods like the +5 RAM mod is triggering the game into thinking it isn't running on actual cart and CV hardware. Not true of course in my case but...yeah. It reinforces that the game has a sort of DRM as it were and it is basically being over protective in this case. I understand the reason if they have, but it is punishing some of us with legit systems that are working 100% for everything else we've used to this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chart45 Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Any mods done to the Adam? no mods on the adam... i have another one that play sgm game with no sgm in i will try if the game run fine or fail to pass to level 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chart45 Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) ok got it to work on my f18a coleco by cycling the rocker switch off on fast and it pass to level 2... now im happy to be able to play on my main system but it suck that i cant put the game on my atarimax... hopefully they will release the game rom to people who bought the game when sold out for ever..they can put my name in the code like the demo version i dont care... Edited July 18, 2018 by chart45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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