lbaeza Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 Hi there I have been able to confirm that the cartridge image of Bruce Lee (prototype) crashes both on Altirra and on the real hardware. I used my Ultimate Cart on a NTSC 800 XL computer running the game and the behavior is the same as in the emulator. I captured the crash on a video, here it is for you: I downloaded the cartridge binary from Atarimania, this is the link: http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-bruce-lee_s799.html Can you give me a hand on fixing the prototype in order to make it fully playable? Kind regards, Louis BQ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 Other than the crashing, does the prototype cartridge differ from the file version in any way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbaeza Posted May 27, 2018 Author Share Posted May 27, 2018 Hello SS I have no idea what are the differences between the file and the cartridge version. I want to burn an EPROM with the prototype binary and put it inside a XE cartridge. So a running cartridge binary is ideal for me. Kind regards, Louis BQ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 (edited) Afaik, the proto cart. is not really a proto - take a closer look and somewhere you will find a name inside of a nice guy from Israel that created this cart. It is the file version + intro of Bruce Lee turned into a cartridge (in other words the full version and therefore the same as the disk version). Since I own that cart., I must play it now and see if it also crashes at that screen... Edited May 27, 2018 by CharlieChaplin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingolfin Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 (edited) I've been tinkering with the .car version of Bruce Lee that is supposed to be from the dump of the prototype cartridge from Best. SS and I have discussed this some in pms. FWIW, I attempted to notify Bradley at Best but was not able to reach him directly (spoke to another Best employee who said they're aware it might not be complete as it is a proto cart). I believe they think/believe these to be authentic prototype carts as they were found in an Atari warehouse (according to the Best site info). I am not qualified or able to confirm or deny the authentic cartridge nature of the prototype Bruce Lee carts sold by Best. (I would tend to give Best the benefit of the doubt especially as Bradley indicates clearly and directly in the Bruce Lee prototype cart advertisement that he's not capable of getting past the first couple of screens in Bruce Lee). Who knows? Maybe someone here can post definite proof one way or the other. At least I can confirm that every dump and conversion method possible of every dump I have found/tried of the prototype cart crashes at the purple room with three portals or gateways that the player/Bruce Lee must pass through in order to complete the game. This lockup or game malfunction takes place a little more than half way through the game (or playing through the first time). I cannot say for certain if it is the prototype cart that is the issue. I only have an Ultimate Cart and have accessed what cart dumps exist online and made all/many different possible .car formats in order to try to confirm that the proto cart is incomplete or defective as I do not own a prototype cart from Best. We have good working, fully functional versions of Bruce Lee on disk and via .xex -- as well as a .car version from .xex too I believe -- so this is not a huge deal but folks out there should be aware that the prototype cart sold by Best (and others?) may not work completely. I do not know how this affects the value of the prototype carts sold by Best: they would still seem to have some potential or perhaps even significant collector value -- or eventually will or might -- even if they are defective. Not sure about this though; just speculating (with some relative optimism). Attached are a) .bin and b) XEGS .car and c) Switchable XEGS .car files/versions in question that are supposedly from the Best proto carts as well as working d) .atr, e) .xex and f) .car file versions of Bruce Lee. The working .car version -- option f) here -- I believe was made from .xex but I am uncertain; however it does work. Except for the .atr version here I believe all of these versions include the title screen. Bruce Lee (Repro).bin.zip Bruce Lee (Repro) XEGS.car.zip Bruce Lee (Repro) Switchable XEGS.car.zip Bruce Lee.atr Bruce Lee.xex Bruce Lee.car.zip Edited May 28, 2018 by Fingolfin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingolfin Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 (edited) I should add/clarify: my intent is to concur with lbaeza, Loius BQ. I am very glad for his starting this thread as the issue has been a minor curiosity for a couple of months now. Thank you lbaeza, Loius BQ! I'll add I used the Ultimate Cart with a 130XE and 800XL with different file images of what is supposed to be the prototype sold by Best. Listed as repro/reproduction in the files posted above, this is confusing I realize but the source for the bin above is atarimania which identifies the game as a) a prototype and b) from Best Electronics (scroll about half way down the page for the Bruce Lee prototype info at Best). I used this .bin to create .car files to test using the Ultimate Cart and 130XE and 800XL to arrive at the conclusion that in all likelihood a) the existing/circulating dump(s) of the prototype cartridge of Bruce Lee sold by Best are somehow flawed b) .car images of the prototype from Best don't work properly on the Ultimate Cart (might be an issue with the .rom to .car utility but I highly doubt this) or c) the prototype cart is itself defective There could be other reasons for the inability to get the prototype to work for lbaeza, Loius BQ and myself but these seem likely possibilities. And alternatives a) and b) are not convincing at this point with a lot of trial and error done on my end. But again, who knows? Has anyone been able to play the prototype Bruce Lee carts sold by Best all the way to the end, and faced evil Fire Wizard? Very curious to know. For advanced clarification I don't think anything misleading has gone on here with the Bruce Lee prototype not working on anyone's part; at least not intentionally so but there is still the issue with the circulating .bin of the prototype cart not working in emulation and with the Ultimate Cart using .car images -- created from supposed prototype .bin dump(s) -- on real A8 machines. Best Regards Fingolfin Edited May 28, 2018 by Fingolfin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 I am not very good at this game but I'll give my Best cartridge another try to see if I can get the same results. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Grrrrrr! This game fills me with rage! Someone remind me why I ever bought this cartridge in the first place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 After cheating my way through (by faking a two player game), I can confirm that my cartridge crashes on this same screen too. Timelines are a bit hazy but I estimate that I must have purchased my cartridge from Best approximately 2003/2004-ish. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingolfin Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Bruce Lee is part platformer, part fighting game and can be annoying and very challenging in both respects. I try to play it as a platformer mostly -- because aside from avoiding or fighting Ninja and Yamo -- most of the game consists of challenging platformer elements. You do need to know how to fight though in order to defeat evil Fire Wizard (at least that has been my experience). SS, I would think you may have bought this cart because it is Bruce Lee and besides the fact the game is a good A8/8 bit action game, Bruce Lee is Bruce Lee...the Dragon and the guy who kicks everyone's ass including Chuck Norris and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (in kung fu anyway). The man could knock out lesser adversaries with a quick sneering glance, his signature attack cry or a flick of his thumb off his nose! [bruce Lee kicking ass emoji used here.] Maybe a haphazard software purchasing rationale but that was my reason for trying it in the first place BITD. Thank you for confirming my suspicions: the Bruce Lee prototype carts sold by Best appear to be defective or incomplete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baktra Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Thank you for confirming my suspicions: the Bruce Lee prototype carts sold by Best appear to be defective or incomplete. That's why they are advertised as prototype. These are collectibles for sure, but I would think twice before I use such cart for real and serious gaming, unless there are reliable reviews confirming the game is fully playable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level42 Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 (edited) Uhhhh never mind.... Edited May 28, 2018 by Level42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 For hardware collectors proto's are a nightmare that I thankfully avoid, I've heard stories in thee past of proto's being purchased for big sums only to find they are on materials very much NOT of that time or are simply hacked ordinary games.. name of thread needs to change to "broken Bruce Lee works on nothing" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80s_Atari_Guy Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Did the Atari ever get a release of Bruce Lee 2 ? Or was that C64 only ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari PAC-MAN Fan Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Did you try any other versions of Altirra? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Did the Atari ever get a release of Bruce Lee 2 ? Or was that C64 only ? I am pretty sure that it was C64 and PC only. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 I am pretty sure that it was C64 and PC only. Yes and there's a Windows other game (unless you mean this one) called Ultimate Bruce Lee (needs compatibility mode on Win 10) https://archive.org/download/Ultimate_Bruce_Lee/bruce.zip And another C64 game with a Bruce Lee twist called Tiger Claw http://www.lazycow.de/tigerclaw/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baktra Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 For hardware collectors proto's are a nightmare that I thankfully avoid, I've heard stories in thee past of proto's being purchased for big sums only to find they are on materials very much NOT of that time or are simply hacked ordinary games.. name of thread needs to change to "broken Bruce Lee works on nothing" Where are riches, there are also thieves. Where are collectors, there are also fakes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingolfin Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 I am concerned about the direction this thread seems to be going. I may be wrong but it seems some folks are questioning the prototype being a prototype; the implied suggestion seems to be that the Bruce Lee cart sold by Best is in fact a reproduction and not a prototype. I have no idea whether that is the case or not: my only interest is/was trying to determine if the cart sold by Best as a prototype is/was fully functional. Over the past two months I have gone back and forth on dealing with the Bruce Lee proto issue several times. The reason for my hesitation has always been: I never wanted to deal with how this could negatively affect Best Electronics or Bradley's business or reputation. I don't know A8 and various Atari communities' perceptions of Best and Bradley and I do not wish to get into that. Bradley was very helpful to me when I was getting restarted in purchasing and acquiring real Atari gear: I bought my 130XE and XF551 new from Best back in '12 or '13, I bought a fair amount of software (cart and disc), some controllers and eventually a refurbished/modded 7800 and a new Jaguar. I think Bradley's a good guy -- he has always been friendly, polite and generous with me with his time and knowledge; additionally, he and Best's service department/tech folks have been very helpful with a few minor Atari repair issues over the years. I think we Atari geeks and freaks need Best and Bradley and others like Bradley and the few business left that have real, original Atari stock on hand; Best not only meets this criteria but it also continues to develop new improvements for old gear and replacements for lots of different Atari hardware needs. And folks from Best always seem like polite, friendly people to interact and communicate with. I still think that Best and Bradley believe these to be authentic prototypes and not reproductions. There would seem to be a big difference between these two conclusions: the Bruce Lee carts sold by Best are defective reproductions vs. prototypes that are not complete. If I am wrong or have misunderstood or misconstrued the posts of others I apologize but I am not comfortable with my involvement possibly being connected with even a hint at Best and/or Bradley being anything less than forthright and a good business and good Atari businessman. Bradley has always struck me like the kind of person, businessman, human being who tries to explain -- or even over-explain -- as much as he can online on Best's website so that his phone time/order processing is more/most efficient. In the case of this Bruce Lee cart there is a small section of the webpage (link above in a previous post of mine) that details what is/was known about the Bruce Lee cart that Best sells as a prototype. I may be being naive or just ignorant or uninformed but boldfaced deception and trying to fool others does just not seem like either the Bradley Koda or Best Electronics I have come to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 Well, I played my Bruce Lee cart. a few minutes ago and can confirm it crashes at the same screen. But: I have not bought my cart. at Best Electronics, instead I got it from a nice guy from Israel (who is creating the Time Pilot cart. right now). So what does that say to you ? My cart. which is a selfmade one (from a cracked disk fileversion) crashes at the same screen as the so-called prototype from Best ? Strange coincidence ? Well, in my eyes not a coincidence at all, since I know that Best and Video61 got the cart (ROM) from the same nice guy from Israel... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingolfin Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 (edited) Yes. What CharlieChaplin has brought up and further clarifiied means I am/was/have been wrong. I apologize to all here: I am sorry for doubting valid, warranted suspicions raised by other AtariAge members. I suppose my stubbornness and previous position was partly about my being in denial about the possibility of some shenanigans regarding the Bruce Lee prototype at Best but that seems frail now. Again with a good deal of ignorance and more than a bit of rashness I have put my foot squarely in my mouth. I have been overzealous and overprotective of Best and Bradley. It appears that the Bruce Lee cart sold by Best is a reproduction and not a prototype. And so I have been unnecessarily and unwarrantedly overprotective of Best and Bradley. That is disappointing but I am glad to know the truth. I was always a bit uneasy about the information for the Bruce Lee prototype cart at the Best site; it seemed odd to not know if the game was complete. And an Atari warehouse in Illinois also seemed a bit odd but then as I've said I bought it all -- hook, line and sinker. I wanted to believe and did believe Bradley. I still want to believe in Best and Bradley but will be more cautious about being so trusting in the future. As most of you know I still have much to learn about the greater Atari community. Thank you for understanding my mistakes here and I hope you all will and can accept my genuine apology. Edited May 28, 2018 by Fingolfin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 (edited) I feel like maybe I should open my cartridge up to see what the board looks like. It is cased in a XEGS style shell though and I am a little worried about breaking the tabs. Edited May 28, 2018 by SS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.atarimania.com Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 I removed the cartridge image from our site, it shouldn't have been added it in the first place. I know about Video 61's supposed practices but Best making up the story seems odd. -- Atari Frog http://www.atarimania.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Lets get one thing straight, we here love Brad, he's a treasure to us and despite his odd business ways he's a source of great stuff and if asked the right questions he's a source of great info and stuff. The Bruce Lee thing is an oddity but Brads not guilty of anything and at worst it may be a mix up that was passed on to him as something its not without telling.. Brads a star.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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