Intellivision Entertainment launching a NEW Intellivision console

[+DZ-Jay]

 

Intellivision Productions never had big budgets. It was a much small operation than a lot of folks realize. They had to raise money in order to stay viable, and fund other ventures. There never really was much in the "R&D" fund (if they even HAD an R&D fund!) to begin with, which is why they had outside developers make a lot of their products - no real upfront costs, low risk, and they made money on the licensing and presumably a percentage of sales.

 

While I was only loosely connected to Keith back then, I never thought they intentionally released a crappy product with the Direct to TV handhelds. Techno Source made a product for them that was a close approximation of Intellivision, and they decided to sell it. Personally, I didn't care for them either, but millions did. And there was nothing stating that any of us had to be among those millions who bought one - but I know most of us did because the idea seemed like a cool one - until we actually played the games... That said, they didn't force us to remove our wallets from our pockets. And whether or not you accept it, or feel it was right, that is in fact how they kept the company going. I didn't stop supporting them as a company because I spent $20 on a mediocre product.

In proper context, my post was in response to comments made by Mr. Robinson (and others) to the effect of, "yeah, we know they're crappy, but you know what? They funded the cool stuff you like, and without them you wouldn't have the cool stuff available."

 

The tone of those comments always struck me as odd, and a bit offensive; as if it was our duty to purchase the crap stuff just to fund the business venture. Whether it was done on purpose or not is immaterial; the comments suggest they were.

 

Either you raise the price of the real product, ask or campaign for proper funding, or recognize that it is not practical to produce (it happens) -- don't try to trick the fans into buying crap just to fund an impractical business model.

 

That's it. It wasn't an attack on Keith's small operation, but on that specific attitude.

 

I never stopped supporting them either but that attitude rubbed me the wrong way. When people complained about some crappy Direct-To-TV game instead of "sorry, we thought it would be better. We'll try harder next time"; what we get is basically, "deal with it, that's how we fund the good stuff." It seemed a bit entitled to me.

 

Your mileage may vary. *shrug*

 

dZ

[+nurmix]

 

You'll have to consider that the "set of those who would pay for a cartridge port" and the "set of people who don't know or care about a cartridge port" do not intersect. They are also not commensurate.

 

Therefore, you must keep in mind that while some would think that a console with a cartridge port is worth $150, to most that's just an unnecessary and unwanted feature, so it really shouldn't figure into the cost.

 

Fair enough. My guess is just about everyone here wants a cartridge port (except Karen Overstreet, because she feels like it will drive up the prices of cartridges on the used market). But since we're in the Intellivision forum of Atari Age, I mentioned the cartridge port add-on in my original query as a factor to consider when coming up with a cost/value.

 

But perhaps I should have asked it this way:

 

* What is a fair price to you hardcore Intellivision fans if there is NEVER a cartridge port adapter?

 

* What is a fair price to you hardcore Intellivision fans if there is?

[+DZ-Jay]

 

Fair enough. My guess is just about everyone here wants a cartridge port (except Karen Overstreet, because she feels like it will drive up the prices of cartridges on the used market). But since we're in the Intellivision forum of Atari Age, I mentioned the cartridge port add-on in my original query as a factor to consider when coming up with a cost/value.

 

But perhaps I should have asked it this way:

 

* What is a fair price to you hardcore Intellivision fans if there is NEVER a cartridge port adapter?

 

* What is a fair price to you hardcore Intellivision fans if there is?

Of course, all of us here want a cartridge port. I'm just saying if your aim is to target the mainstream market (which it appears to be), to people outside this forum (which is the vast majority of that market) it is not an important feature.

 

I believe you said something to this effect in another post above.

 

UPDATE: Also, since it's an add-on, I guess it doesn't matter: those who want it could buy it.

[+nurmix]

The tone of those comments always struck me as odd, and a bit offensive; as if it was our duty to purchase the crap stuff just to fund the business venture. Whether it was done on purpose or not is immaterial; the comments suggest they were.

 

Either you raise the price of the real product, ask or campaign for proper funding, or recognize that it is not practical to produce (it happens) -- don't try to trick the fans into buying crap just to fund a impractical business model.

 

That's it. It wasn't an attack on Keith's small operation, but on that specific attitude.

 

I never stopped supporting them either but that attitude rubbed me the wrong way. When people complained about some crappy Direct-To-TV game instead of "sorry, we thought it would be better. We'll try harder next time"; what we get is basically, "deal with it, that's how we fund the good of the stuff." It seemed a bit entitled to me.

 

Your mileage may vary. *shrug*

 

dZ

 

OK, yeah, I get that. I can't recall Keith ever saying it like that, but he probably did when he got irritated about people complaining (heck, he may have even said it on the podcast, I just honestly don't remember). And I know you've always been a big supporter of them, DZ, even when they never sent your overlays! I didn't mean to imply you weren't. And you've defended their position on IP issues many times. From your posts here it seems like you aren't particularly interested in the new console, but the good news is you won't have to decide until it's done and ready to buy. This time, with IE, we're spending big money on R&D and not asking anyone to fund it with another crappy product first!

[+nurmix]

Of course, all of us here want a cartridge port. I'm just saying if your aim is to target the mainstream market (which it appears to be), to people outside this forum (which is the vast majority of that market) it is not an important feature.

 

I believe you said something to this effect in another post above.

 

True. To make this bigger than a lot of people think possible, the "I don't know nothin' 'bout no cartridge port' group is the main market. But I am genuinely interested to know how my fellow hardcore Inty fans feel about it too, no matter how small the numbers.

[RetroAl]

I'd be good with an add on adapter.

[+DZ-Jay]

 

OK, yeah, I get that. I can't recall Keith ever saying it like that, but he probably did when he got irritated about people complaining (heck, he may have even said it on the podcast, I just honestly don't remember). And I know you've always been a big supporter of them, DZ, even when they never sent your overlays! I didn't mean to imply you weren't. And you've defended their position on IP issues many times. From your posts here it seems like you aren't particularly interested in the new console, but the good news is you won't have to decide until it's done and ready to buy. This time, with IE, we're spending big money on R&D and not asking anyone to fund it with another crappy product first!

To be honest, I was one of the first to sign up to the list when the announcement was made (I wake up very early), and I'll be watching this project very closely to see how it develops. It is Intellivision after all.

 

In that sense, you can say that I am indeed very interested in it. I just personally don't see a place for it in the market, and have concluded based on what I know that it can't possibly succeed.

 

Then again, that's just my (overly pessimistic) view, not at all my desire; I would love to be proven wrong -- and if I am, I'll be right there.

 

dZ.

[+intvsteve]

An add-on for playing legacy cartridges is pure Intellivision!​ Just look at what Mattel did: Keyboard Component, Intellivoice, ECS, Synthesizer, System Changer -- even PlayCable. Ultimately being so hardware-expansion-happy was detrimental, but it could be said it was also a defining, differentiating characteristic of the system.

 

Making the original cartridges playable on the system via an add-on has that Intellivision "feel". Had Mattel continued to develop and deliver consoles, would Intellivsion IV, V, and VI still supported the same cartridge form factor, as well as the legacy processor? We'll never know what ​they​ would have done. But we can certainly voice our thoughts about what Intellivision Entertainment plans.

 

Make it an add-on. It's The Intellivision Way. It's also something that -- hopefully if it takes off like a rocket -- only a tiny percentage of the overall purchasers of the console would use. Imagine that if 5 million units sell and just 1% of them got a cartridge port add-on. Hell, if even 0.1% got that add-on, it'd be far, far more than the most fabulously successful after-market releases in the past 15+ years!

[Hwlngmad]

So, we are talking 87 to 107 games (new and old), plus two wireless controllers with touch screens, USB, SD card support and a future cartridge port adapter (not counting games as those are separate IMO)? If yes, I would say $150 or so. Any higher than $175 and you get near (Black Friday) Xbox One and PS4 prices. In the end, I say somewhere between $125 to $175 max. Sound about right?

Legitimate question - trying to gauge interest: What is an acceptable price point for a new console with 7 brand new games + 80-100 original Intellivision games, 30+ brand new games available in the online store at launch at $3 - $7 each (a lot of them well known licensed games) with no additional DLC or micro-transaction BS ever, 2 wireless controllers with integrated touch screens, USB, SD card support (with some special edition SD CIB releases), and a future cartridge port adapter?


Sent from my Keyboard Component using Jack's Conversational Intelli-talk cassette

[Jeffrey Bouchard]

I would be in the 150 dollar range. With all the added features and games that are being talked about its a no brainer for me.

[+nurmix]

So, we are talking 87 to 107 games (new and old), plus two wireless controllers with touch screens, USB, SD card support and a future cartridge port adapter (not counting games as those are separate IMO)? If yes, I would say $150 or so. Any higher than $175 and you get near (Black Friday) Xbox One and PS4 prices. In the end, I say somewhere between $125 to $175 max. Sound about right?

 

Yep, that's the target - somewhere between $125 and $175 (most likely $150-$160 range).

[GenetixJ]

I have one rule: Never back crowd-funded tech. It has served me quite well over the years, as either one of two outcomes will occur: the item will fail (and I will lose my money), or it will be successful and the tech will be delivered- at which point I can buy it from the manufacturer (albeit higher price) or from an original backer.

[+KylJoy]

 

* What is a fair price to you hardcore Intellivision fans if there is NEVER a cartridge port adapter?

* What is a fair price to you hardcore Intellivision fans if there is?

Never a cart port? I'd still go $150 for a super-awesome system that is a true Intellivision successor.

I'd easily go $200 for the perfect system with a cart port that worked with my flash carts.

 

Maybe I'm way off here. Seems about right to me, though. But it has to SCREAM Intellivision.

[+the1hatman]

 

Yep, that's the target - somewhere between $125 and $175 (most likely $150-$160 range).

Honestly, I would be on board even at a $200-250 range just to see some of the features. Especially the proposed controllers. I just don't see it as being commercially viable above $175. It's more important for the venture to have long term sustainability than it is to cater to us die-hard INTV folks. I'm sure a happy medium can be reached though so I remain optimistic. There's a lot of good people behind this.

[+nurmix]

I have one rule: Never back crowd-funded tech. It has served me quite well over the years, as either one of two outcomes will occur: the item will fail (and I will lose my money), or it will be successful and the tech will be delivered- at which point I can buy it from the manufacturer (albeit higher price) or from an original backer.

That's a good rule. And we aren't crowd funding. It's being funded internally. When it's released, you can try it. If you like it, buy it. If you don't, don't.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my Keyboard Component using Jack's Conversational Intelli-talk cassette

[1980gamer]

How about skip the system altogether....

 

Make the controllers and emulator and the planned software etc. For the XBOX or PS4.

 

Add the Download feature into the emulation software.

 

Okay, I really want a system. But to be commercially successful, this may be the proper route?

[+KylJoy]

How about skip the system altogether....

 

Make the controllers and emulator and the planned software etc. For the XBOX or PS4.

 

Add the Download feature into the emulation software.

 

Okay, I really want a system. But to be commercially successful, this may be the proper route?

I'm on board - cartridge port or not. I support the Intellivision lifestyle. I'm drinking a mojito right now. Seriously.

 

But this is exactly why I think a cart port makes a LOT of sense when it comes to being a successor to the original Intellivision. Without it, why not do as 1980gamer suggests and release the controllers and emulators that work on PC, Xbox One, PS4, etc. and be done with it. I already have awesome Intellivision consoles, some modded with RGB, that play my originals and homebrews GREAT on old TVs or brand new HDTVs. I know, I know... I am not THE market. I'm part of the 1% (different 1%) and I would really love some awesome touchscreen (to show the overlays) controllers with a real physical disc and side buttons to use with my emulators. Heck, I bet that a cart adapter, if released later, could be made to work on ANY USB enabled system with enough horsepower and smarts to read the carts (PC, Xbox, PS, etc.)

 

Not intending to go negative here. I am excited about this.

[+intvsteve]

How many games are in the Xbone / PS4 stores as digital downloads? Honest question - I've never owned a Playstation N, and though we've had three iterations of Xbox in our home, it's extremely rare for these old paws to grip one of the controllers. Hell, the Xbone one kid got for Christmas has maybe 10 hours of playtime on it. The only game I ever downloaded on the 360 was a Tarmin knockoff -- Treasures of Tarr Minos IIRC -- and we never really played it. That anecdotal story is of course meaningless in the big picture, but if Intellivision Entertainment is targeting people who don't necessarily already have or want those systems, then putting their product there is a nonstarter.

 

In several interviews, this topic of "why a new system" was kind of brushed up to. That is, in a vast sea of downloadable games, some free, some not, how the heck do you find the good ones? Star ratings are all well and good, but ultimately not really too helpful until you get a big buy-in. A game with 3 ratings where two are from buddies of the guy who wrote it is a total crap shoot. It might be incredible, but we tend to skip over such games assuming that if only 3 people bothered to rate it, it's lame. Who's got time to go through 5,000 games hoping to find 5 good ones? At that point, I've paid a lot for that game just by searching for it.

[Jeffrey Bouchard]

Really looking forward to this. More news would be great October 1st cant come soon enough.

[Rev]

If you build it....they will come.

[MrBeefy]

I wouldn't count me as hardcore as I have only recently got into the Intellivision.

 

I am really intrigued by this project. I do NOT want a cart port on this.

 

Why? Cost for one. I have an Intellivision that I can play carts on. It will drive the price of this system up. Also then you have to add the additional work to make sure the carts are able to be read correctly, dumped, or whatever. That costs money which is then passed to consumers.

 

The retro community always yells that it wants a cartridge port. I get it in a way but it seems they do not care that a majority of people don't care. For this to be a success it has to reach beyond the hardcore old school INTV fans. Not to mention then it will become a "well it better play this!" Which if there are INTV games like Pitfall 2 on the 2600 (I'm a noob have no clue) that will require more work, time, and costs into developing.

 

Cheap system and cheap games equal an easy purchase. An expensive system with a cart port I won't use waste of money. My mom played the Atari a lot with us kids. I could see getting her into this based on price point. I am about to be a father and I love the idea of a cheap vintage inspired family friendly system.

 

Second reason is revenue. It to me makes no sense from a business point to include a cart port. If they have a store they will want to sell the games even if cheap. That is revenue for them to support the system and continue to make it awesome. Hardware costs and the new generation of consoles lose money on the hardware.

 

This type of company cannot afford that especially when they are talking about cheap games! Cheap software will not make up for huge hardware losses.

 

So 'in short'....

 

$100 system with cheap games I am most likely in.

 

$150 I will strongly consider it.

 

$200 I am out.

 

I feel that adding a cart port would add probably $50.

 

If it was expansion port only, would you spend $50 to buy a cart port? And does that change if it retails at $150 or $200 without it?

[+intvsteve]

Well put, MrBeefy! And congratulations on pending Fatherhood!

[GenetixJ]

I was referring to the crowd-funding in the original article. Just clarifying.

 

 

That's a good rule. And we aren't crowd funding. It's being funded internally. When it's released, you can try it. If you like it, buy it. If you don't, don't.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my Keyboard Component using Jack's Conversational Intelli-talk cassette

[MrBeefy]

Well put, MrBeefy! And congratulations on pending Fatherhood!

Thanks! I am serious about the family friendly system thing too. In addition to being annoyed by online toxicity in modern videogames, I watch my students waste their lives and waste opportunities while being more concerned with how they are doing in fortnight or pub g.

 

I find it sad that I grew up with Atari, NES, and then SNES and PSX. Yet somehow I was also able to be an avid reader, do well in school to graduate in top of class, get good test scores and make it in college. I am seeing this generation of kids not able to do this. It is hard being a nerd/gamer and telling kids they need to lay off. Or try to explain that they have responsibilities beyond fortnite.

 

I have already had talks with the wife were I told her my kid will be eased into gaming (mainly allowed to play my Atari and probably NES). I have no less than 14 consoles hooked up to two TVs and I will be damned if my kid struggles to read yet can only talk to me about how to play a never ending multiplayer game that gives them a false sense of escapism.

 

(In case you are wondering, I work in education as a councelor).

 

So if Intellivision can pull something like a modern vintage console off I will be all in based on price point.

[Jeffrey Bouchard]

Not sure if this would be possible, on the intellivoice games I realize why the title screens no longer say Mattel electronics presents but would it be possible to have it say Intellivision presents? Its not a huge deal, however, it seems like the experience is missing because of this fact. Yes, the games are intact maybe Im nitpicking. Anyway, I would love more news and I am definetly look in forward to this.