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Intellivision Entertainment launching a NEW Intellivision console


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#251 SoulBuster OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:47 PM

I was not discussing music in my replies, only video games.



#252 m-crew OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:52 PM

Well, digital is not always better


That's was exactly my point...

#253 m-crew OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:54 PM

Bill,
I agree that digital is better,


Sorry I took that statement as digital as a whole..

#254 SoulBuster OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:57 PM

I can see why you might have thought that after the post about records.



#255 vprette OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:02 PM

Yeah, I don't believe that for a second. Vinyl is still a tiny niche of the larger music industry and it offers a specific type of alternative experience (rougher quality, idiosyncrasies, etc.) to regular digital music. Physical media, cartridge or disc, offers nothing alternative to its digital counterpart. It's just a way to take up space and give the illusion of ownership (after all, almost all modern games receive regular updates/require online verification). No one is clamoring for physical media.
 
Anyway, whatever one's opinion, it's not going to change the fact that neither the VCS or the Intellibox will have cartridge slots. It's unnecessary to their stated goals.
[/quote

the goals? they look to be out of market in 1 year



#256 m-crew OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:03 PM

I can see why you might have thought that after the post about records.


We sure get "Dazed and Confused" here that's for sure.. Makes me want to jump in "The Ocean"

#257 m-crew OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:06 PM

Yeah, I don't believe that for a second. Vinyl is still a tiny niche of the larger music industry and it offers a specific type of alternative experience (rougher quality, idiosyncrasies, etc.) to regular digital music. Physical media, cartridge or disc, offers nothing alternative to its digital counterpart. It's just a way to take up space and give the illusion of ownership (after all, almost all modern games receive regular updates/require online verification). No one is clamoring for physical media.
 
Anyway, whatever one's opinion, it's not going to change the fact that neither the VCS or the Intellibox will have cartridge slots. It's unnecessary to their stated goals.
[/quote

the goals? they look to be out of market in 1 year


the goals? they look to be out of market in 1 year

Are you saying released to the market in 1yr , or lucky to last in the market for a year after release?

#258 SoulBuster OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:09 PM

We sure get "Dazed and Confused" here that's for sure.. Makes me want to jump in "The Ocean"

 

I am 2 hours from the Ocean so I could literally do that.



#259 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:10 PM

You Really believe that , In my opinion I think people do want physical media and it will make a comeback with the younger generations just like records are right now..chartoftheday_7699_lp_sales_in_the_unite

 

 

 

There's nothing surprising about it.

 

I believe (rightly or wrongly) that the CD craze of 1984-2016 and the complexity of how it transitioned into digital music and streaming services soured a lot of the younger generation and kids of today - on digital music.

 

By the end of the fad circa 2015-2018, managing a digital music collection became rather difficult and highly confusing, what with the funky mixture of tools, storage devices, source material, and players at one's disposal. Or not.

 

There was windows 7, 8 and now 10, with their way of doing it. Several 10's or 100's of music players, each trying to start their own music store. 200+ online stores and internet streaming services. You had iTunes and 500 other music manager programs. Half of all this was interoperable, half not. And understanding what is what was quickly becoming more trouble than it was worth.

 

Throw DRM on top of the mess, each store having its own requirements and restrictions, and it becomes outright distasteful. And with the downfall of the PC, rise of controlled & restricted mobile devices, the personal digital music collection is all but dead in the water. Precisely what the industry wanted.

 

Streaming offers even less permanence than a well backed-up digital collection. You've got changing services, changing terms of agreements, and pricing fluctuations all over the board.

 

So no wonder people are reverting to simple analog recordings with a natural analog hole and easy visual management.

 

---

 

Let us not also forget that by the end of the CD era, the medium was absolutely flooded with a torrent of garbage that was badly mastered in attempt to win the loudness wars.


Edited by Keatah, Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:19 PM.


#260 SoulBuster OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:10 PM

You could jump into Lake Ontario!!!



#261 m-crew OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:14 PM

You could jump into Lake Ontario!!!


lol I could but I might get sick if I do.. lmao...

#262 m-crew OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:16 PM

I am 2 hours from the Ocean so I could literally do that.


I rather jump in "The Ocean "for "Good Times Bad Times" its safer than Lake Ontario... lol

#263 m-crew OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:18 PM

There's nothing surprising about it.
 
I believe (rightly or wrongly) that the CD craze of 1984-2016 and the complexity of how it transitioned into digital music and streaming services soured a lot of the younger generation and kids of today - on digital music.
 
By the end of the fad circa 2015-2018, managing a digital music collection became rather difficult and highly confusing, what with the funky mixture of tools, storage devices, source material, and players at one's disposal. Or not.
 
There was windows 7, 8 and now 10, with their way of doing it. Several 10's or 100's of music players, each trying to start their own music store. 200+ online stores and internet streaming services. You had iTunes and 500 other music manager programs. Half of all this was interoperable, half not. And understanding what is what was quickly becoming more trouble than it was worth.
 
Throw DRM on top of the mess, each store having its own requirements and restrictions, and it becomes outright distasteful. And with the downfall of the PC, rise of controlled & restricted mobile devices, the personal digital music collection is all but dead in the water. Precisely what the industry wanted.
 
Streaming offers even less permanence than a well backed-up digital collection. You've got changing services, changing terms of agreements, and pricing fluctuations all over the board.
 
So no wonder people are reverting to simple analog recordings with a natural analog hole and easy visual management.


To put it in simple terms.. Its a Digital Shit Show... lol

Edited by m-crew, Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:32 PM.


#264 vprette OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:19 PM

the goals? they look to be out of market in 1 year

Are you saying released to the market in 1yr , or lucky to last in the market for a year after release?



very lucky to last 1 year after release( ok let's say 18 months

#265 m-crew OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:23 PM

There's nothing surprising about it.
 

 
So no wonder people are reverting to simple analog recordings with a natural analog hole and easy visual management.


Don't forget that whole feeling of opening that record , reading the cover , the sleeve , the smell of the vinyl and to top it of.. physically placing the record on the turntable then needle on the record... The crackle then wham the music hits you.. Awee so satisfying and magical.. ;)

#266 m-crew OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:30 PM

very lucky to last 1 year after release( ok let's say 18 months


You may be right, hoping your wrong though...


Oh did I mention Cart slot !!!

#267 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:34 PM

I think only a small percentage of people care about physical media these days. I see no downside with going all digital, especially for products like these.

 

Physical media is nice and nostalgic and all that. But I would not want to use it for anything but trips back to yesteryear or as a conversation piece.

 

---

 

Cartridges are just a means of changing the function of a fixed-function computer. Cartridges go way back into the 1960's for industrial and scientific computers. The AGC being an example of having rope memory in cartridges, or modules as it was termed then.

 

On the other hand. Cartridges do provide a sense of permanence that digital media sorely lacks. Users can create their own carts. You can get blanks in the form of Compact Flash, SD/microSD, USB Jump Drives, or Removable HDD/SSD from just about anywhere. All you have to do is get creative with the labeling and display shelf options.

 

A typical 2TB portable HDD is about the size of an Atari VCS cartridge. Buy 100 of them and you have a wall of custom 2TB carts! At $64 bucks each they're cheaper than many AAA games or homebrews.


Edited by Keatah, Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:35 PM.


#268 1980gamer OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:45 PM

Putting aside the Fun of opening the new game or "record".  Putting the pretty boxes on the shelf.

The access to all available games not just the included and what is added to the "store"

etc.

etc.

How about the how PO'd we get when we buy a digital game and either the system dies and you have to re-buy.  Or the provide goes out of business and you can only unlock your content from the online server that has gone away.  Or you buy content for your DS and upgrade to a 3DS and IF you transfer the license from one console to another, you loose the saved data etc.  DIGITAL should be more convenient, but it is not.

 

Want to sell a few more consoles.... Add remote Multiplayer content and make it work with legacy games.  Bi-plains dog fighting from cost to cost.  Or MLB etc.  

 

Just my rant on digital content....  At least I escaped HD-DVD and Circuit City's DIVX.



#269 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:16 PM

Don't forget that whole feeling of opening that record , reading the cover , the sleeve , the smell of the vinyl and to top it of.. physically placing the record on the turntable then needle on the record... The crackle then wham the music hits you.. Awee so satisfying and magical.. ;)

 

And, yet, the same can applied to digital media too!

 

There's nothing quite like reading the introduction and the electronic (pdf) manual of a cool new game or program. Then downloading it manually. Then picking out the installation folder, naming it, and transferring the files to it. Then customizing it to your tastes with controller settings, general performance options, graphic options, on-screen controls, and more. The running it for the first time.

 

I grant you that this would likely only apply to unique not-often-seen programs and NOT smartphone apps. Not Candy-Crush, or Flopper Bird or any other of the 7.4 million disposable apps available in "app stores". but instead something like a complex flight simulation, think X-Plane, FS2018, or Orbiter Spaceflight Simulator. Or maybe an astronomy program with plugins and optional databases and a great instruction manual, think Stellarium. Something not run-of-the-mill.

 

It becomes more special as time rolls on. You build an archive of the game (or program), with documentation, add-on aircraft, airports, scenery, and saved scenarios. And over the long haul, flight models in the form of an updated simulation progrma.

 

Doom and collections of PC games also fits here, too. With Doom it's all about enjoying the original game as it came back in yesteryear. Then enjoying the add-on levels and sounds and graphics - to whatever extent it pleases you.

 

You can lend physicality to these sorts of things if you make a display case for SD cards or removable USB HDDs.

 

---

 

Anyway I'm not here to promote one method over the other. Just mentioning my favorite way of doing things and sharing it with the community.



#270 Keatah OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:35 PM

Putting aside the Fun of opening the new game or "record".  Putting the pretty boxes on the shelf.

The access to all available games not just the included and what is added to the "store"

etc.

etc.

How about the how PO'd we get when we buy a digital game and either the system dies and you have to re-buy.  Or the provide goes out of business and you can only unlock your content from the online server that has gone away.  Or you buy content for your DS and upgrade to a 3DS and IF you transfer the license from one console to another, you loose the saved data etc.  DIGITAL should be more convenient, but it is not.

 

I'm rather lucky in that I've managed to stick with totally 100% "archival" versions of the games and simulations I like. So DIGITAL is more convenient for me.

 

If my PC were ever to blowup, I could just reload and continue on without going though all that server verification bullshit. I may be missing out on some top titles by staying away from all the DRM nonsense, but I've got more than enough material to last a lifetime as it stands today.



#271 atari-dna OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:46 PM

I’m hopeful the product launches, I think 100K is beyond optimism though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

#272 SoulBuster OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:35 PM

The Atari VCS, when I last looked, was at 2800%+ of needed funds.

 

So I do not know.  Retro is in.



#273 Lathe26 OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:29 PM

 

 

There's nothing surprising about it.

 

I believe (rightly or wrongly) that the CD craze of 1984-2016 and the complexity of how it transitioned into digital music and streaming services soured a lot of the younger generation and kids of today - on digital music.

 

By the end of the fad circa 2015-2018, managing a digital music collection became rather difficult and highly confusing, what with the funky mixture of tools, storage devices, source material, and players at one's disposal. Or not.

 

There was windows 7, 8 and now 10, with their way of doing it. Several 10's or 100's of music players, each trying to start their own music store. 200+ online stores and internet streaming services. You had iTunes and 500 other music manager programs. Half of all this was interoperable, half not. And understanding what is what was quickly becoming more trouble than it was worth.

 

Throw DRM on top of the mess, each store having its own requirements and restrictions, and it becomes outright distasteful. And with the downfall of the PC, rise of controlled & restricted mobile devices, the personal digital music collection is all but dead in the water. Precisely what the industry wanted.

 

Streaming offers even less permanence than a well backed-up digital collection. You've got changing services, changing terms of agreements, and pricing fluctuations all over the board.

 

So no wonder people are reverting to simple analog recordings with a natural analog hole and easy visual management.

 

---

 

Let us not also forget that by the end of the CD era, the medium was absolutely flooded with a torrent of garbage that was badly mastered in attempt to win the loudness wars.

 

Let's not confuse CDs with downloadable music.  These should be treated separately.  Going by units, CDs peaked in year 2000 with downloadable music surpassing CDs around 2006.  Playing a physical CD is easier than playing a record.  Downloadable content... well... yeah it got to be a mess like you said, especially with the music stores that try to lock users in.  Also, until recently, downloadable music all used lossy compression which degrades the audio while CDs do not (FLAC downloads only recently became an option in a few places).

 

I agree that the Loudness War was terrible for music but vinyl is susceptible to it as well.  Motown Records in the 1960s were said to have the "hottest records" in the industry and they weren't talking about sales.  Also, every modern vinyl should be regarded as being a Loudness War casualty unless the record explicitly states it was mastered differently.  Older CDs were not casualties and the last couple years have seen a back-off by the industry due to backlash.

 

For my music collection, my first choice is to download non-DRM FLAC files since it is lossless and has equal quality to a CD.  If that isn't available, I buy the CD and rip it to FLAC myself so I can play it on the go and have a perfect copy of the CD.  I go with these since these are the highest quality recording available to consumers.  As far as human ranges of hearing are concerned, FLAC and CDs are objectively capable of storing higher quality audio than vinyl can.

 

That said, I do understand the appeal of vinyl.  The Loudness War hit CDs a little harder than vinyl (an abuse of each format).  There is a Zen-like enjoyment from watching a record spin.  The process in playing record from how best to slide it out of the sleeve to whether to apply wear-reducing oil on the record to placing the needle is a unique and comforting ritual for each person.  For the techies out there, the tinker factor is appealing from selecting the right needle to the right belts and weights and motors, which is similar to how some audiophiles prefer vacuum tube amps so they can swap out which tubes sound best to them.

 

Just to compare vinyl unit sales to CDs and downloadable music, the graph below shows digital music is about 100x where vinyl currently is.

units-vs-dollars-riaa.jpg



#274 Rev OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:34 PM

https://www.thepenny...-do-you-own-it/

#275 Utopia OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:01 AM

 

Let's not confuse CDs with downloadable music.  These should be treated separately.  Going by units, CDs peaked in year 2000 with downloadable music surpassing CDs around 2006.  Playing a physical CD is easier than playing a record.  Downloadable content... well... yeah it got to be a mess like you said, especially with the music stores that try to lock users in.  Also, until recently, downloadable music all used lossy compression which degrades the audio while CDs do not (FLAC downloads only recently became an option in a few places).

 

I agree that the Loudness War was terrible for music but vinyl is susceptible to it as well.  Motown Records in the 1960s were said to have the "hottest records" in the industry and they weren't talking about sales.  Also, every modern vinyl should be regarded as being a Loudness War casualty unless the record explicitly states it was mastered differently.  Older CDs were not casualties and the last couple years have seen a back-off by the industry due to backlash.

 

For my music collection, my first choice is to download non-DRM FLAC files since it is lossless and has equal quality to a CD.  If that isn't available, I buy the CD and rip it to FLAC myself so I can play it on the go and have a perfect copy of the CD.  I go with these since these are the highest quality recording available to consumers.  As far as human ranges of hearing are concerned, FLAC and CDs are objectively capable of storing higher quality audio than vinyl can.

 

That said, I do understand the appeal of vinyl.  The Loudness War hit CDs a little harder than vinyl (an abuse of each format).  There is a Zen-like enjoyment from watching a record spin.  The process in playing record from how best to slide it out of the sleeve to whether to apply wear-reducing oil on the record to placing the needle is a unique and comforting ritual for each person.  For the techies out there, the tinker factor is appealing from selecting the right needle to the right belts and weights and motors, which is similar to how some audiophiles prefer vacuum tube amps so they can swap out which tubes sound best to them.

 

Just to compare vinyl unit sales to CDs and downloadable music, the graph below shows digital music is about 100x where vinyl currently is.

attachicon.gifunits-vs-dollars-riaa.jpg

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All good but for those of us that have a good L.P. collection and good Hi-Fi equipment the argument is moot.

There is a big difference to listening to music and "listening to music" a good audiophile setup wins over every other format every time.


Edited by Utopia, Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:02 AM.





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