Some advice on an ebay purchase, please? Item condition issue

[atarilovesyou]

Hi guys. You may or not know, I do collect old school video game stuff...I wouldn't use the term collectard, but if the nostalgia pull is there? I'm in, particularly with the systems from my youth.

 

Here's the situation: I recently bought a rather expensive NES console, complete in box, from ebay. It was advertised as 'new' in the description, although it had been opened to verify contents, yet apparently had never been powered up. So says the seller, I contacted him prior to the purchase, I have no reason to not believe him and answered all my question. He said it's basically a system that, while opened, was never taken out of box and never used. Basically sat in a closet until it was sold, and looks that way. There were about four photos of the system, none showing the console out of its protective plastic. I assume that was because the system does in fact, look new. The box is in great shape, the foam in great shape, all the components are in baggies (some stapled, even).

 

I have no doubt that the system has never been powered up. All the power supplies, all that, stuff, the controllers...it's all bagged and plastic ties. Some of the ties are suspect, as they're aren't black. There's a blue one, white one...on the AV cable and RF switch, all others are black. Couple rogue white dog hairs...ok.

 

The system, the console itself. It looks like it has never been powered up, as much as one can ascertain from looking at it. The stickers on it look great, a lil touch on the bottom of the console stickers but literally nothing of note. The rubber feet are good, no scuffing. I'm thinking, fantastic!

 

Then I tilt the console under a good light source. I see...it's hard to describe, but I can only describe it as a kind of scuffing. Very small, but all over the sides of the console. Both top and lower halves, the grey and white portions. They are not scratches, and you can't feel them. You can't even see them unless, like I did, you tilt it under the light. Much as you'd do to appraise an NES cart sticker, to see how the gloss is holding up, if there are any imperfections. So this console has this kind of...scuffing, although I almost hesitate to call it that. And it's localized 'around' the console. Top and bottom portions don't have any of it. Just the sides. Well, there is one that you can see...a line of sorts, on the back rear corner. That's what drew me to it in the first place.

 

I've compared it to my other 'super close to new' NES decks and neither have this kind of wear. I thought maybe something to do with it being in storage...I don't see how, though, if it was in plastic bags all these years.

 

The controllers do have very mild instances of this as well, but so slight as to be comparable to the best condition NES pads I have ever come across.

 

Since the system still has original bags, I don't see what would cause this kind of wear. I haven't even plugged it in yet.

 

The item has a 'no returns accepted' but I feel if I contact the seller, he'd probably take it back. But would you guys return it? I'm hesitant. The rest of the items are in excellent condition, bare a crease across the large Instruction manual (and part of the poster). There is no Nintendo Power Club advert inside, only three items: the manual, a large poster (with the original R.O.B. era games) and a newer, smaller poster (with RC Pro Am, that era). No warranty papers, although that's in the large manual. So I think it's complete, as far as I can tell.

 

I bought this specific system for a few key reasons, but for the high price I paid, I think that I would have trouble if I were to sell it as 'new', due to those marks. I'm pretty picky, and I'm sure others would be too...especially if they are expecting a mint specimen.

 

I'd like to keep it, but at the price I paid, it kinda kills me to know that it has those...scuffs, whatever they are. What do you guys think? Were some batches of plastic possibly more prone to this type of wear? Does anybody have any collectible level NES decks that they can compare? Like I said, my other sets actually have less marking on them than this one, at a far lower price (mind you, purchased before this stuff got really expensive). So I'm not sure what to do. I'm sure I'll never come across another set like this, so complete. And it's going to be preserved, as I have my regular workhorse NES consoles to use everyday.

 

I'm considering just asking for a discount, so at least it doesn't feel like I'm paying 'new' price for something that actually has some wear (even though I can't explain it). He'll probably just say, "just return it".

 

Anyways, I don't have long to think about it. Maybe a day and a half. How would you guys proceed? Thanks for taking the time to read this long post.

[icemanxp300]

In my opinion new doesn't exist if it has been opened and I would never even consider it worth more than CIB. With that said my main focus is nes and I have never seen any ties used besides black. I'm not saying 100% blue or white were not used, I am only saying I have only seen black.

 

Pics may help people make a determination.

 

Again, especially in this day and age. No seal = Not New. If they never came with a seal it will never be new as far as I am concerned.

[atarilovesyou]

I am the same way, I always list 'used' but explain in my comments that it's basically new, only the seal has been broken. If that's the case, but I don't really sell video games, I deal more with collectibles, figures, that sort of thing.

 

Because it was advertised as new, I think the price I paid, I expected new. I'm okay with the twist ties, really, as believe it or not I have extras from another set, and the RF and cables are in fact quite minty. I doubt the controllers were used, but who knows...I don't see somebody from back in the day using it for a little bit, then rewrapping it up near-perfectly. But I've also never run into 'mint' controllers, the plastic always seems to have some kind of little rub mark on it somewhere. I think it was part of the manufacturing process, really. That doesn't explain what's on this particular console, though.

 

To me, it looks like maybe it wasn't used...but lived in an entertainment center, maybe. And came into contact with things to put those marks. It's quite difficult to explain, and more difficult to capture on camera. It's there, though. If I took it to a convention, somebody would pick it out right away. Which is why I'd still like to keep it, but ask for a reduction in price. To which I'm not sure what the seller will say, he was adamant on the price for months. It didn't move, but luckily I managed to get the cash together to finally pick it up. You can't see any of these things from the limited photos, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt in that he probably just slid it out, popped the top foam, snapped the pics and back in the box. What I mean to say is, I don't think he was trying to be sneaky about it.

[+wongojack]

If you are willing to pay a premium then you'll find another one again someday.

 

It seems like you don't like it, but you are afraid you'll never get something in the same condition again. Except of course, the condition isn't that great. You are trying to convince yourself to keep it when it really isn't what you want.

 

I'd definitely tell the seller that you've discovered some scratches/scuffing and the different colored ties. Why not just ask the seller what they think? Maybe he/she will have a suggestion you can live with. You can always counter with a discount, but you should be ready to return it if that is what the seller wants.

[atarilovesyou]

Yeah, you're right. I don't think I'll find another one like this, the box, all the things included, from the variant that it is (Canadian packaging, bilingual everything) Well, not unless it's some ebay jackpot who wants like $3999 for it, right? This was expensive, but would have been worth every penny to me if it was actually in the 'perfect' condition I was expecting. I attached some pics to show the type of wear I'm talking about. Very hard to photograph, because the light blurs it out.

 

We'll see what the seller says.

 

[fiddlepaddle]

First, know that I personally would never see myself pay a premium so I could preserve a "new" boxed game. The "perfectness level" of your interest is much higher than mine. However, you got me thinking how I would feel in your situation.

 

It doesn't sound like that NES is EXACTLY what you want.

 

If I wanted something in a certain condition, and I paid what I thought was a price that was fair to myself and also to the seller to get it, I would want what I paid for. I might compromise with myself and accept a discount, but I might not, depending on how much I want "exactly that".

 

For example, say I want to reward myself for accomplishing something that was a real challenge. I decide to go to Dairy Queen because I really like a vanilla cone with a really thick chocolate shell. I've been thinking about it all day and I know it might be hard to get, but that's what I want.

 

I ask if they can double dip the cone in chocolate, and the server says with a big smile "Why, yes, I can do that for you, sir!" So I pay extra for it, but then the server isn't able to do it without dropping the ice cream in the vat. They try three times and just can't do it. Since they can't give me what I asked for, and paid for, then I don't really want to compromise. I probably just want my money back so I can go down the street and get something even better at Baskin Robbins or wherever.

 

I would think there would be, somewhere, a new old stock NES eventually, still unopened which would satisfy what you want. You may just have to be patient, or be willing to pay more than you are right now.

 

Personally, I would probably compromise and take the one I got, but on the other hand I might not even notice the scuffing you describe or would just chalk it up manufacturing or shipping incidents.

[icemanxp300]

I'm curious how tight is the pin connector?

[atarilovesyou]

I actually haven't even tried putting anything in it, out of respect for the seller. If I'm returning it, I'm not going to even hook it up. That way, he gets it back exactly the same way he shipped it.

 

Even though it's not exactly what I want, it's kind of an ongoing thing: trying to piece together everything. This would have been it, for me, had it been perfect.

 

I know not everybody will understand the collector mentality, but this is more than collecting...I really have a deep connection with these systems from my youth. I don't intend to sell, even though I don't intend to use it every day either. Not a shelf queen thing, but more to preserve something from the past, an iconic system that means a lot to me. The Canadian variant might not mean much to most, but it is exactly what I used to own and received nearly 30 years ago. So even though I don't plan to sell, at some point I'm sure I will have to (I doubt my family will feel the same way about my stuff, nor do I expect them to). And I'm pretty sure any collector who has my frame of mind would immediately look at those marks and go, "Hmmmm...".

 

I'll let ya know how it turns out. I'm hoping for a good turn out.

[atarilovesyou]

I'm curious how tight is the pin connector?

 

The connector, if it's anything like my regular (also a Canadian variant) one, the connector has that 'just right' amount of tension. I cleaned my original one via boiling method and that was nearly 8 years ago, still works just fine. I'll see what happens on ebay, and let you know, if I can.

 

What do you make of those marks? Almost like maybe it was transported in a duffle bag or something, maybe a suitcase...something where the top and bottom were protected, but got some marks around it. Strange.

Edited May 30, 2018 by atarilovesyou

[Keatah]

It's a toughie for sure. But doing something might make it all better. Perhaps a partial refund?

 

These little conundrums used to drive me nuts in the past - so much I had to stop collecting and re-adjust my "videogame outlook" for sanity reasons.

[Bratwurst]

That's a tough one. I'm inclined to say that NES was used, because those are wearmarks I associate with the plastic rubbing up against something hard. It's not something I would consider possible inside of a soft poly bag and styrofoam housing.

 

Possible that it was scratched by the seller taking it out to inspect it and they had long fingernails or were careless about how they moved the system around. The whole idea of opening a sealed item just to inspect the contents for sale is pretty suspect.

[icemanxp300]

A new "old" pin connector should be tight evenly across. It should not be loose at all, especially on the edges and it def. should not have a death grip. I was curious too know as I am inclined to believe this was just a nice box found and the seller purchased individual items off ebay and slapped it together, hence the different color ties. He likely got dupes buying "new" crap from ebay himself.

 

If you were to open the system and inspect the pin connector, they contain a star in a circle impression in the corner that after market connectors do not come with. That would be a dead give-away.

 

I understand you not wanting to inspect to a point. My point is if the seller is selling used junk as new then he deserves to be called out. One more thing if you use a drill with a bit driver to unscrew the casing screws, be care to not go to fast as that can scratch the holes you go into for the screws. I say this because I want you to use a bit on a drill if you do open it. New factory screws give a dis-locking pop sound and feel when you unscrew them. This is much easier to tell with a bit. Screws that have been taken out already just unscrew in a more uniform smooth action, they don't have the added resistance and unlocking pop right at the beginning.

[HoshiChiri]

You should defintely at least be asking for a partial refund.

 

You were told the system was never removed from its box- but that is clearly not true. You wouldn't have creased paperwork, and you defintely wouldn't have multicolor twist ties. It is Not As Described from that alone. As for your scuffing- as someone who primarily deals in decidedly not-new items, that's shelf wear. You see it a lot on disc game cases. That console was stored outside of its box at some point in its life.

 

I'm inclined to agree with Iceman... I don't know if your seller was duped, or if he's the instigator, but this really seems like a cobbled together set and not a proper new in box. Perhaps you could just start to undo one screw? See if you get that factory-fresh pop or not. It could be a good way to test if the console itself has been opened without actually opening it.

 

Regardless- the question is, are you OK with the price you paid, for a console that consists of like-new parts reassembled into this box? If not, how much would be fair, and is it at all close to what you paid? Your next move is based on the answer to that.

[atarilovesyou]

I get it...it's just that I have no reason to believe (nor do I believe) that the seller is being dishonest. I'm going to contact him today and explain, and my hope is that we can settle on a price, just not the one that I paid. The condition of the console is in question. Keatah, I think my 'keen eye' is going to lead me to where you ended up...I just can't help it though. And when I see something is truly mint, and tell somebody that it is truly mint, you can guarantee 100% that it IS mint. I realize not sellers are going to do this, as it would understandably affect their bottom line.

[+wongojack]

One likely situation is that someone did buy this new. Maybe they got it from a storage unit or from a gamestore. They bought it because it was new and only took it out of the box to display. Later they thought "I can still sell that as new" and then re-packed it. If the seller insists that it was never powered on then that seems like an awfully specific clue as to how he has treated this thing. I don't know exactly how it was described to you, but "it was only removed to inspect it" and "It was never powered on" sound like a convenient way to not tell you that they actually took it out, inspected it, and left it on a shelf for 2 years before they realized they wanted to sell it. Heck, they might have even scratched it wiping dust off.

 

Too bad they didn't have the foresight to save those black twist ties . . .

[atarilovesyou]

While the listing was described new, Im not sure if 'like new' category even exists in ebay anymore. Seller never claimed it was sealed, sorry if I made it sound that way. The box was not sealed when he bought it, nor did he test it for functionality as far as I know. I do know that as a buyer on ebay with paypal, I.am protected enough, so I took the chance. Worse case scenario is I have to send it back and I am out the shipping. I have been looking for something just like this for years, I have had zero luck finding it like this, more or less complete in box.

The thing is, he would have had to go through a lot of trouble to piece this together. The controllers look anout as good as it gets, and the proper plastic baggies are there. Even though two plastic ties might not be black. At worst, it was a gift for someone at some time, the thing was used a bit and boxed back up. The controller ties look factory but that can be jimmied back if the cables still have memory and you can match the cable twists.

 

I'm not going to remove any screws, at any stage. If it gets to that point, it's just getting returned and that's that. If you could see how mint the top and bottom portions of the console look, I can't believe it but even the electronics have that 'like new' smell when you flip up the cover. It literally does appear 'perfect' in that regard. The bottom stickers match my other Canadian variant, and even has a date specific serial number that places it in the same year as my original (well, the NES I own which I believe is actually my original system. I can't prove it, but, lol, the possibility is real; long story, sold it to a friend back in the day and got it back from same said friend. He had a couple NES' however, and the one I bought back from him was in the best shape. I keep my systems minty, so taking that into consideration, I believe the one I bought back was the same one I had as a teen...along with a game pak or two as well)

If it were only mint on the case! So close. Which is why everything but that outer case is worth keeping, but at what price. I have an idea in my head, but he will probably just ask for it back. But at least he can better describe the condition to future prospective buyers.

Edited May 30, 2018 by atarilovesyou

[icemanxp300]

I can't believe it but even the electronics have that 'like new' smell when you flip up the cover.

 

Yeah I doubt after 30 years that smell still exist. I got a few re-sealed nes games back 8 years ago that had that "new smell". Simply achieved by spraying a can of whatever inside it. The more you talk the more I want to know this scammers name.

[spacecadet]

While the listing was described new, Im not sure if 'like new' category even exists in ebay anymore.

 

It does in some categories, but not in game consoles. But there is a "New other (see details)" category for game consoles. That's usually where people put the stuff that's opened, but has "never been used", or has an even shadier history like opened, used for display but "never sold". I hate that category. "Like New" was less shady, but I'll bet sellers lobbied for them to change it.

 

Hopefully the seller gives you some money back. I don't think he'll take it back and I don't think he'd be required to under Ebay rules; at this point since you did buy it and he doesn't know how you've used it, it'd be worth a lot less to him than it was when he sold it to you. But hopefully you can work out a partial refund.

 

I feel like sellers need to be super-careful when advertising stuff like this as "new" because it's the easiest way to get in trouble with the buyer. On the other hand, as a buyer I'm like iceman in that if I see something listed as "new" that's anything other than a picture of a sealed box and a description to match, I just laugh and move on. Once something's been opened, you have no idea what that system's been through in the years since it's been produced. So I think you'll save yourself some grief next time if you either just skip listings like this, or go into it with the expectation that the buyer's either lying or ignorant and bid accordingly. If the price was good enough, I'm sure this could still have been a good deal for a CIB system, but I just wouldn't bid on stuff like this as if it were new. And I would try to get a refund to the point where your bid would have been for just a nice CIB system.

 

btw my TI 99/4A was advertised as "new" also but clearly wasn't. It was missing a bunch of stuff and had scratches all over it; but it was in its original baggy and box so the seller listed it as "new". But it seemed clear just looking at the pics that it had been removed from the box and plastic, so I bid on it as if it was just a boxed 99/4A, and I wasn't disappointed when I got it. I wish there was a way to complain to Ebay about stuff like that *without* demanding a refund or return, just so people don't do it anymore, but I don't think there is.

Edited May 30, 2018 by spacecadet

[atarilovesyou]

Ì have faith that I will at least get to return it, if thats the only option. Ive had this happen only once in the past, but on an item much lower priced. The item was listed as new, but doesnt look new upon closer inspection. If anything, he relists it as 'new, other' and price it accordingly. I cant imagine anybody paying full asking price knowing it has the marks on it. That also was not disclosed prior to sale. I dont think he is trying to fool me, but I dont think the description was accurate. I will give benefit of the doubt until given reason not to. More to follow.

Edited May 30, 2018 by atarilovesyou

[atarilovesyou]

 

Yeah I doubt after 30 years that smell still exist. I got a few re-sealed nes games back 8 years ago that had that "new smell". Simply achieved by spraying a can of whatever inside it. The more you talk the more I want to know this scammers name.

I really dont think he is a scammer, and his feedback is good. I just think some oversights were made in the item description. You can usually spot the flakes in ebay, he didnt set off my radar. You never know, though...I bought my TG16 a few years back and thw seller said it sat in a closet for decades. It ended up having nicks and scratches, but wasnt listed as new, either. I also paid what I thought was fair price, so that was the end of it. This system, its hard to even gauge an actual value, as aspects of it are 'new, other' but other aspects are not. As a buyer, ebay has yet to not come through for me. We will see.

[AMenard]

Open box is never new in my book. An why would someone open a new, sealed box, to verify its content unless it came from somewhere shady in the first place.

 

Also be especially warned about all the new stuff advertised on ebay from sellers from Venezuela. I'm seeing a great amount of "brand new" retro computers and consoles being offered from there. Considering the total chaos down there I wouldn't change it.

[Tanooki]

Stuff like this is exactly why the stuff I put on ebay talks down not up the condition and if it really is in a mint like state I won't use those words still, just resort to 'excellent', 'pretty much spotless' or something of the sort with a like new selection on the drop down. Most I go straight with good, conversely unless something is stained/label jacked up I won't use acceptable either as I consider that functional garbage for a rating. It's always best to take just enough images to post, perhaps even save a few for possible trouble makers, and put a solid but not overkill description. Never promise what you can't deliver on as there's always that guy who will be your next bidder wanting to scam a buck or get OCD and want a return. I get the collector thoughts, I was one for longer than I wasn't but the toxicity of everything put me off what is now called the market put me off it.

 

I'd talk with the guy and ask him what he thinks would be fair and leave it open to interpretation of a refund deduction to a simple return. You have the power, but making them feel powerless isn't good either.

 

I've even had stuff that's new but open box before too but rarely, in a few of the cases I've opened it because I was suspect. I'll use a new(other) on that type of stuff, and if unable I will do a like new, then write what I did in the description. There are cases where you may have popped dried out old tape on a box, maybe there were batteries included that could have exploded acid, etc and I'm not going to get caught in that mess and I think it would make the buyer feel better if they're not just too dumb to realize and only care about tape and shrinkwrap that that ensures freshness. It's like old food, everything has a date even if it's sealed.

[icemanxp300]

I really dont think he is a scammer, and his feedback is good. I just think some oversights were made in the item description.

 

This right here is the main problem. There is no way he did not know about the scuffs. He charged top dollar for something and marketed as new when it is not in "new condition".

[derFunkenstein]

 

This right here is the main problem. There is no way he did not know about the scuffs. He charged top dollar for something and marketed as new when it is not in "new condition".

 

Exactly. And for that reason, I absolutely think this is a scam. When listing stuff, let the description really describe the item. Flaws and all. I've passed on many tempting eBay auctions that seemed too good to be true, and while I'll never know if that's the case, I have to think I've saved myself a lot of pain that way.

Edited June 1, 2018 by derFunkenstein

[Flojomojo]

It sounds like you're not happy with it. You should probably return it. It sounds like you'll regret it if you keep it.

 

Ebay doesn't have a "new" and "nearly new" category. There's "new" and "used" and it's not difficult to confuse the two.

 

Those little plastic scuffs wouldn't bother me, but I would never pay what you paid for this. Even though I don't think you specified the cost, a "high price" for a NES should bring you a perfect thing, with all the foam inserts, etc.

 

On eBay nowadays, the BUYER is always right, especially when you have such ample documentation that this is "significantly not as described." Sellers can say "no returns" all they want, but eBay will overrule that to keep the store full of good stuff.

 

Unless you're just going to play with it, in which case you're probably going to put enough wear and tear on it to make it gently used anyway.

 

The fact that you've written so much about this suggests, again

 

It sounds like you're not happy with it. You should probably return it. It sounds like you'll regret it if you keep it.