Jump to content

Photo

Gyruss for Intellivision?


205 replies to this topic

#126 artrag OFFLINE  

artrag

    Dragonstomper

  • 986 posts

Posted Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:19 AM

I deeply regret that you do not accept the apology Arturo, when a sincere person apologizes and does everything to repair a situation and can do it normally the excuses are accepted.

Given that as already 'widely said I'm not going to sell Gyruss and the game is totally and permanently withdrawn from sales, not even a copy has been distributed, I do not understand where the problem remains.
Who put the video on the network (Pascal Bernard), had a few minutes of the beta test at the beginning of processing, as I told you and worked from a code of your game so it's normal that it is similar or if you prefer to say initially the same.
However I repeat and then really at least on my part I do not want to be questioned and would be liked by an intelligent person as I believe you can be, that the story is closed here, the game does not exist anymore and I do not need to send anything to anyone  nothing is to prove if not distributed.

 

So, that video is from your game (which in turn is mine), and has been taken in November at the very beginning of processing.

It was not very clear from what you was stating above. Quite deceiving, I'd say.

 

You told me by chat on Facebook, before banning me, that you have been working on Gyruss for more than one year before starting to "get inspired" by my code (you say in Italian "usare degli spunti") .

The time count in your story does not work very well as many other "details".

 

Still in the chat you was not calling my game properly but "Z Gorf", as on the box (!!) deceiving the occasional reader who could be induced to think it was "inspired" by something else.

 

Still I do not see a public video of the complete game play of "your" game, nor you have asked me privately the address where to send the physical copy of "your" game that I am asking you. 

 

There is an important point to make clear here: your original intention 

 

Your apologies are just an attempt to mystify your original intention and try to restore you tarnished reputation.

 

If you want redemption, stop deceiving, and fully show "your" game, publishing on this site its source and data as open source in the Intellivision programming forum.

 

This will not make me change idea on you intentions, but could close the incident for me.


Edited by artrag, Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:21 AM.


#127 freewheel OFFLINE  

freewheel

    River Patroller

  • 3,064 posts

Posted Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:44 PM

Because I'm willing to play mild Devil's Advocate here (in the sense that this "honest mistake" seems a little fishy but perhaps someone else is closer to being more honest about a similar mistake)...

 

If any other people are interested in publishing, developing, or otherwise releasing a game based on code on this or any other forum - you're morally, ethically, and legally obligated to at least contact the original author first. Period. End of discussion. Unless it's VERY clearly stated that the code is released under an Open Source license of some sort - and I'm not sure that I've even seen an Intellivision game released this way. Code snippets, yes. Certainly not a partial or entire game.

 

It doesn't matter if it's WIP code. Code released as part of a contest. Sample code that someone shares for fun. You have little to no legal right to simply take that code, tweak it, and sell it. Not even distribute it for free. International copyright law is quite clear on this. And morally, it's just douchey.

 

I can tell you from personal and other experience that many authors would be delighted to have you take their code, maybe improve it, put it on a cart, and release it. With credit and not necessarily a massive payment. Some may even let you do it for free. But you can't simply make that decision for them.

 

Don't be a douche. Respect creators. Thank you :)



#128 Humblejack OFFLINE  

Humblejack

    Moonsweeper

  • 465 posts

Posted Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:02 PM

 

And of course, the "Parker Bros." name and logo are likely trademarks to which he has no rights.

 

 

 

 

Reproducing the boxes may be expensive, if you wish to include the inlet platform to stow the cartridge and manual.  The reason no publisher has reproduced this style so far is because it is likely not profitable -- unless, of course, you steal the intellectual property and charge three times as much as a regular game.

 

     -dZ.

 

I am going to ask a question I really don't know the answer to but don't want a whole bunch of hate mail.  Question: So how is it that all of the reproduction boxes done for the past 5 years using Intellivision Inc or Mattel or INTV (Spiker for example) are okay to make. Are not the same "copyright" laws applicable to them?  Please expain the difference between Parker Bro and say INTV.



#129 artrag OFFLINE  

artrag

    Dragonstomper

  • 986 posts

Posted Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:51 PM

Don't be a douche. Respect creators. Thank you :)

My point is that this is not an 'honest' mistake' and pretending now to have acted in good faith is an outrageous lie against any evidence.

Add that you do not show the game you was selling telling that it is differ from mine, different from the one in the video... This is mistifying reality...

How could I accept your apologies?

Publishing here 'your' game sources is a fair request to close the 'incident'.

Edited by artrag, Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:55 PM.


#130 the1hatman OFFLINE  

the1hatman

    Dragonstomper

  • 850 posts
  • Location:Ohio, USA

Posted Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:39 AM

My point is that this is not an 'honest' mistake' and pretending now to have acted in good faith is an outrageous lie against any evidence.

Add that you do not show the game you was selling telling that it is differ from mine, different from the one in the video... This is mistifying reality...

How could I accept your apologies?

Publishing here 'your' game sources is a fair request to close the 'incident'.

 

Um, artag... I think you just got freewheel and dinoy mixed up there.



#131 artrag OFFLINE  

artrag

    Dragonstomper

  • 986 posts

Posted Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:41 AM

Sure, when I say you,I speak to Dino

#132 dinoy OFFLINE  

dinoy

    Combat Commando

  • 4 posts

Posted Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:46 AM

It's been years since I saw on the net boxes marked Parker, intv, Activision, imagic and no one has ever complained about this, these repro have been made for pure collectors and for fans like me, there are also repro of overlays marked and even of this nobody has ever complained.

Regarding the game, and then really at least for me the story must close, I have not released video or anything and it does not seem a good idea to put an open source just to not hinder and create problems and comparisons with Deep space, the many similarities or few have been ascertained and a comparison is not necessary as there is nothing to prove if I give you I have already been right.
According to you Arturo, if I had been really in bad faith I would have been so stupid to spend money to reproduce shells, boxes and instructions with a detail and quality of the original even knowing that I risked a violation of rights and not being able to distribute the game ?
I repeat and then really then me enough for me, I already claimed that we were beginners and naive in not understanding the use of the source, once you open your legitimate challenge I proceeded to the immediate withdrawal and cancellation of the game, the reimbursement and not shipping of the sold, more than that I do not know what to do.
I'm sorry that my sincere apologies have not been accepted, this disturbs me a lot and I would have appreciated a bit 'of understanding in a field of passionate collectors, but as you already wrote me anything I say or do not believe me and you will stay on your position.
This incident made me realize that it's better if I'm far from being a producer, the upcoming releases of Jedi arena and Spiderman that I should have published in Parker style in the next few months will be canceled, so like Jungle Hunt, Jedi arena almost finished I think I'll put it in open source but see how successful I want to check out first if it's possible without complications.



#133 m-crew OFFLINE  

m-crew

    River Patroller

  • 4,645 posts
  • Location:Toronto -Canada

Posted Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:55 AM

I am going to ask a question I really don't know the answer to but don't want a whole bunch of hate mail.  Question: So how is it that all of the reproduction boxes done for the past 5 years using Intellivision Inc or Mattel or INTV (Spiker for example) are okay to make. Are not the same "copyright" laws applicable to them?  Please expain the difference between Parker Bro and say INTV.


I think DZ was just stating a matter of fact as "as well"

In my opinion there is no difference between any of them , it seem like some can reproduce things without getting flamed on and some well just get "flamed on" It "could be" something to do with being part of an "establishment" and as soon as its one outside that establishment watch out the flames come out...

My statement above has nothing to do with the Gyrus and Deep Zone issue going on here , just a response to Humblejacks question...

#134 m-crew OFFLINE  

m-crew

    River Patroller

  • 4,645 posts
  • Location:Toronto -Canada

Posted Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:00 AM

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

Animal Farm

George Orwell

#135 DZ-Jay OFFLINE  

DZ-Jay

    Quadrunner

  • 10,704 posts
  • Triple-Stripe Mo' Bro
  • Location:NC, USA

Posted Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:16 AM

 

I am going to ask a question I really don't know the answer to but don't want a whole bunch of hate mail.  Question: So how is it that all of the reproduction boxes done for the past 5 years using Intellivision Inc or Mattel or INTV (Spiker for example) are okay to make. Are not the same "copyright" laws applicable to them?  Please expain the difference between Parker Bro and say INTV.

 

There's no legal difference, of course.  The difference in this situation is that instead of stealing from some abstract mega-corp with big bucks, he stole from a lowly Intellivision home-brew programmer from of our own little community.

 

Some people tend to remove the moral stigma when it comes to a soulless corporation, big institutions.  It's like the difference between cheating on your taxes and stealing your neighbors social security cheque.  Neither is right, both are illegal; but there's an extra layer of outrage and umbrage attached to the latter.

 

Still... you really shouldn't do either. ;)

 

   -dZ.



#136 DZ-Jay OFFLINE  

DZ-Jay

    Quadrunner

  • 10,704 posts
  • Triple-Stripe Mo' Bro
  • Location:NC, USA

Posted Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:23 AM

 

I'm sorry that my sincere apologies have not been accepted, this disturbs me a lot and I would have appreciated a bit 'of understanding in a field of passionate collectors, but as you already wrote me anything I say or do not believe me and you will stay on your position.

 

You know, that's your problem right there.  If you would have stuck to the "field of passionate collectors," probably nobody would have cared (actually, I think some still don't), and would have bought your game without asking any questions.

 

Instead, you broke away from that safe place and ravaged the "field of passionate programmers" and stole someone's creative work.  That put a target on your entire enterprise, and ultimately lead to this showdown.

 

Lesson to learn:  Reproducing boxes by stealing logos, trademarks, and artwork from big corporations may not matter to many collectors; but stealing creative work from people from within the same community that harbours your potential clients, apparently does.

 

    -dZ.



#137 dinoy OFFLINE  

dinoy

    Combat Commando

  • 4 posts

Posted Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:49 AM

I definitely learned the lesson now



#138 intellivotion ONLINE  

intellivotion

    Intellivoted

  • 2,595 posts
  • Time Zone Traveller
  • Location:Italy... sometimes

Posted Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:14 AM

(...)
I repeat and then really then me enough for me, I already claimed that we were beginners and naive in not understanding the use of the source, once you open your legitimate challenge I proceeded to the immediate withdrawal and cancellation of the game, the reimbursement and not shipping of the sold, more than that I do not know what to do.

(...)
This incident made me realize that it's better if I'm far from being a producer, the upcoming releases of Jedi arena and Spiderman that I should have published in Parker style in the next few months will be canceled, so like Jungle Hunt, Jedi arena almost finished I think I'll put it in open source but see how successful I want to check out first if it's possible without complications.

 

I think the cancellation of Gyruss and the refund to all those who sent you the payment are a sign of genuine remorse for the mistake. And the loss of money for something that you can't sell is the price of it.
That said, I hope you won't cancel the other three projects you're talking about: I never played Jedi Arena on Atari 2600, but I know Jungle Hunt and Spiderman and a port to Intellivision, possibly CIB, would be awesome. I'm sure everybody around here will support you if you do everything in the proper and right way.



#139 artrag OFFLINE  

artrag

    Dragonstomper

  • 986 posts

Posted Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:18 AM

It's been years since I saw on the net boxes marked Parker, intv, Activision, imagic and no one has ever complained about this, these repro have been made for pure collectors and for fans like me, there are also repro of overlays marked and even of this nobody has ever complained.

Regarding the game, and then really at least for me the story must close, I have not released video or anything and it does not seem a good idea to put an open source just to not hinder and create problems and comparisons with Deep space, the many similarities or few have been ascertained and a comparison is not necessary as there is nothing to prove if I give you I have already been right.

 

I am the injured party and I am the one to tell you when we close or we do not close the affair.

 

According to you Arturo, if I had been really in bad faith I would have been so stupid to spend money to reproduce shells, boxes and instructions with a detail and quality of the original even knowing that I risked a violation of rights and not being able to distribute the game ?

 

Here you come to apologize saying that you were in good faith, but what you tell contrasts all the factual elements of this affair. Therefore, I cannot believe you when you tell that you will not sell the game.Since "your" game is actually mine (note that this is very different from your misleading statements about "being inspired", or having "preso spunto"), in order to close the affair by my side, I want your sources and your game (which are mine in any relevant aspect) to be published on this site in the intellevision programming section.

 

I repeat and then really then me enough for me, I already claimed that we were beginners and naive in not understanding the use of the source, once you open your legitimate challenge I proceeded to the immediate withdrawal and cancellation of the game, the reimbursement and not shipping of the sold, more than that I do not know what to do.
I'm sorry that my sincere apologies have not been accepted, this disturbs me a lot and I would have appreciated a bit 'of understanding in a field of passionate collectors, but as you already wrote me anything I say or do not believe me and you will stay on your position.

 

The meaning of your commercial operation is perfectly clear to anyone who has followed the story and put the pieces together. I repeat, publish your (i.e. MY) sources and close the issue.

 

This incident made me realize that it's better if I'm far from being a producer, the upcoming releases of Jedi arena and Spiderman that I should have published in Parker style in the next few months will be canceled, so like Jungle Hunt, Jedi arena almost finished I think I'll put it in open source but see how successful I want to check out first if it's possible without complications.

 

These are your choices and concern you and the holders of their respective rights. 

 


Edited by artrag, Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:26 AM.


#140 mr_me OFFLINE  

mr_me

    River Patroller

  • 2,746 posts
  • Location:Ontario

Posted Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:18 AM

 
I am going to ask a question I really don't know the answer to but don't want a whole bunch of hate mail.  Question: So how is it that all of the reproduction boxes done for the past 5 years using Intellivision Inc or Mattel or INTV (Spiker for example) are okay to make. Are not the same "copyright" laws applicable to them?  Please expain the difference between Parker Bro and say INTV.

Actually the Mattel and INTV properties belong to Intellivision Productions; Keith Robinson and his partners spent their hard earned money aquiring those properties. And don't forget the game code, modified and not modified, that's been sold on cartridge and/or file format without their permission. Keith Robinson didn't want to upset his fans even if his layers told him otherwise. Hasbro, who now owns the box cover graphics and game description, and Konami who owns the name, likely isn't even aware of this box.

-----
Back in the early 1980s, a few college kids hacked Atari's Missile command and sold an upgrade making a nice profit. After suing them, Atari hired those guys to program more games for them. In fact they designed the 7800 for Atari.

-----
How does sharing the Gyruss source code help? With or without code changes, we all know what he did, which he has now admitted.

Edited by mr_me, Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:33 AM.


#141 save2600 OFFLINE  

save2600

    Quadrunner

  • 15,068 posts
  • Location:Wisconsin

Posted Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:44 AM

Late to this shit show of obligatory Intellivision developer drama, but you mean to say some ports of Atari 2600 games are being cancelled? Awwwwww... for shame! :rolling:

As the Intellivision continues to lose its identity, may as well start referring to it as the Atari 2609. :lol:

#142 intellivotion ONLINE  

intellivotion

    Intellivoted

  • 2,595 posts
  • Time Zone Traveller
  • Location:Italy... sometimes

Posted Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:54 AM

(...)
As the Intellivision continues to lose its identity, may as well start referring to it as the Atari 2609. :lol:

first of all, start with changing your nickname to save2609 :P



#143 eebuckeye OFFLINE  

eebuckeye

    Stargunner

  • 1,083 posts

Posted Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:31 AM

I'm all for new game releases but not for 150 Euros regardless of the title and being a complete new work! I would never buy a game for much less if I felt the code was taken from another game without approval.

Edited by eebuckeye, Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:31 AM.


#144 freewheel OFFLINE  

freewheel

    River Patroller

  • 3,064 posts

Posted Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:33 AM

 

Some people tend to remove the moral stigma when it comes to a soulless corporation, big institutions.  It's like the difference between cheating on your taxes and stealing your neighbors social security cheque.  Neither is right, both are illegal; but there's an extra layer of outrage and umbrage attached to the latter.

 

This. 100 times this. I'll also add that there's a massive difference (morally, but not legally) to many people between taking something 35 years old, that's long since made a publisher a profit and has been entirely unavailable at retail for 33 of those years... and something that was created a few months ago, by someone hoping to perhaps sell in the near future. Ignoring the "soulless corporation vs starving hobbyist programmer" side of things, it's also the difference between reproducing Intellivision Donkey Kong in 2018, vs the latest Zelda game. One is serving an under-served hobbyist market, the other is blatantly ripping someone off. They're both owned by soulless corporations, but one is a lot more egregious. And one is a lot more distasteful.

 

Again, morally, not legally. And not everyone holds the same opinion here.



#145 tep392 OFFLINE  

tep392

    River Patroller

  • 3,043 posts
  • Location:Peoria, IL

Posted Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:37 AM

Ignoring the issue of taking the source and attempting to redistribute without permission, I find the whole idea of creating a limited 100 cart run with the intent of selling at high prices to collectors only is offensive and damaging to the hobby.  If he was planning the same scheme with his future releases then he can go ahead an cancel them, because none of us who buy games to actually play them will have the opportunity to do so.  This whole thing stinks.



#146 m-crew OFFLINE  

m-crew

    River Patroller

  • 4,645 posts
  • Location:Toronto -Canada

Posted Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:00 AM

Ignoring the issue of taking the source and attempting to redistribute without permission, I find the whole idea of creating a limited 100 cart run with the intent of selling at high prices to collectors only is offensive and damaging to the hobby.  If he was planning the same scheme with his future releases then he can go ahead an cancel them, because none of us who buy games to actually play them will have the opportunity to do so.  This whole thing stinks.


This is not the first time , or the last time that limited runs or private runs , ext ext....

It is what it is and has been.

#147 freewheel OFFLINE  

freewheel

    River Patroller

  • 3,064 posts

Posted Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:39 PM

Well, everything in this scene is generally a "limited run" to begin with. You have to order a certain quantity of everything, and re-ordering small quantities gets expensive quick.  But I agree, limiting it to jack up prices is pretty skeezy. It does not cost anywhere close to 150 Euros to produce a boxed release unless you're not doing your homework.

 

That being said, 100 isn't as small of a run as some might think. A lot of games take quite a while to sell even that many copies.



#148 eebuckeye OFFLINE  

eebuckeye

    Stargunner

  • 1,083 posts

Posted Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:40 PM

Especially at 150 Euros + shipping!?!

#149 artrag OFFLINE  

artrag

    Dragonstomper

  • 986 posts

Posted Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:55 PM

Add that it is MY game (which is free!) in beta with a different title! And that his plan was from the very beginning to do not advertise "his" game on atariage or publish videos to avoid the plagiarism was discovered....

 

And still he denies that the game is just MY game under any relevant aspect, trying to tell that have changed it somehow ("get inspired" while the real word is  RIP OFF), telling that the one in the video I've had by friends is not the game in the cartridge (really? Show it!), refusing to publish the rom and its sources that in turn are essentially MINE. 

 

Dino you are not in good faith. Now provided that what you did is a fraud attempt, and that I am the owner of the sources of "your" game, I ask you to publish them on this site with proper credits.

There are many reason why I ask this, but one over all the others, is that I want to make sure that your "Gyruss" is distributed under the very same conditions of Deep Zone. 


Edited by artrag, Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:26 PM.


#150 tep392 OFFLINE  

tep392

    River Patroller

  • 3,043 posts
  • Location:Peoria, IL

Posted Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:28 PM

Well, everything in this scene is generally a "limited run" to begin with. You have to order a certain quantity of everything, and re-ordering small quantities gets expensive quick.  But I agree, limiting it to jack up prices is pretty skeezy. It does not cost anywhere close to 150 Euros to produce a boxed release unless you're not doing your homework.

 

That being said, 100 isn't as small of a run as some might think. A lot of games take quite a while to sell even that many copies.

The boxes are the biggest investment and price sensitive with quantity.  If his intent wasn't just a cash grab from the top collectors, he could have offered a cart only or even a ROM option.  I've been building small batches of Donkey Kong PK cartridges for years now to keep them available.  Al does this as well with the games he sells on this site.  Carts can be built economically in small batches.






0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users