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5200 Controller Redesign


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#1 phuzaxeman OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:00 PM

I'm currently using one of the newer aftermarket atari 2600 controllers for my XL 8bit.  I actually prefer it more than the original because the stick clicks and requires less force.  

 

 

Has anyone tried to make an aftermarket controller that looks and plays similar to the original?  Would it be hard to design?  I don't mind at all the non self centering sticks personally but to get the other buttons like the start, pause, and reset, buttons, and number pad to click would be killer.

 

 

Thoughts?



#2 Atari Nut OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:33 PM

I like the 5200 controller.  I would like it to be self-centering along with the analog range of motion.  Hard buttons would be nice with spinning the joystick for paddle/driving action.



#3 edladdin OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:11 PM

I'm working on it, but it remains on the back burner while we digest the waitlist that came after the Kickstarter campaign for Coleco controllers.

 

The Super 52 will include an analog, self-centering joystick, two pair of Suzo-Happ arcade fire buttons for ambidextrous play, and a membrane keypad for the numbers.  I have not decided whether to have a new membrane keypad made with the numbers and the three function keys, or to use an existing numeric keypad and add three hardware buttons.  Lastly, I plan to include a paddle control for the single-axis games, such as Super Breakout, Pole Position, Galaxian, etc. 



#4 sramirez2008 OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:17 PM

I'm working on it, but it remains on the back burner while we digest the waitlist that came after the Kickstarter campaign for Coleco controllers.

 

The Super 52 will include an analog, self-centering joystick, two pair of Suzo-Happ arcade fire buttons for ambidextrous play, and a membrane keypad for the numbers.  I have not decided whether to have a new membrane keypad made with the numbers and the three function keys, or to use an existing numeric keypad and add three hardware buttons.  Lastly, I plan to include a paddle control for the single-axis games, such as Super Breakout, Pole Position, Galaxian, etc. 

 

You are my hero! :-D

 

I plan on purchasing the 1st one that rolls of the assembly line.


Edited by sramirez2008, Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:12 PM.


#5 phuzaxeman OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:32 PM

I'm working on it, but it remains on the back burner while we digest the waitlist that came after the Kickstarter campaign for Coleco controllers.

 

The Super 52 will include an analog, self-centering joystick, two pair of Suzo-Happ arcade fire buttons for ambidextrous play, and a membrane keypad for the numbers.  I have not decided whether to have a new membrane keypad made with the numbers and the three function keys, or to use an existing numeric keypad and add three hardware buttons.  Lastly, I plan to include a paddle control for the single-axis games, such as Super Breakout, Pole Position, Galaxian, etc. 

 

 

That would be amazing.  



#6 TrekMD OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:44 PM

That description sounds fantastic! 



#7 bohoki OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:11 PM

its a fine line between precision and agility the 5200 is unique that it uses a class 2 lever to have a good balance



#8 Protestari OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:48 AM

I'm working on it, but it remains on the back burner while we digest the waitlist that came after the Kickstarter campaign for Coleco controllers.

 

The Super 52 will include an analog, self-centering joystick, two pair of Suzo-Happ arcade fire buttons for ambidextrous play, and a membrane keypad for the numbers.  I have not decided whether to have a new membrane keypad made with the numbers and the three function keys, or to use an existing numeric keypad and add three hardware buttons.  Lastly, I plan to include a paddle control for the single-axis games, such as Super Breakout, Pole Position, Galaxian, etc. 

 

Hi Ed, gave an update to our listeners about the upcoming Super 52 controller. Will continue to spread the word.



#9 edladdin OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:24 PM

 

Hi Ed, gave an update to our listeners about the upcoming Super 52 controller. Will continue to spread the word.

 

Thank you!!!



#10 tripletopper OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:16 PM

I'm working on it, but it remains on the back burner while we digest the waitlist that came after the Kickstarter campaign for Coleco controllers.

 

The Super 52 will include an analog, self-centering joystick, two pair of Suzo-Happ arcade fire buttons for ambidextrous play, and a membrane keypad for the numbers.  I have not decided whether to have a new membrane keypad made with the numbers and the three function keys, or to use an existing numeric keypad and add three hardware buttons.  Lastly, I plan to include a paddle control for the single-axis games, such as Super Breakout, Pole Position, Galaxian, etc. 

 

Ed of Edladdin,a  funny thing.   If you want to build a Digital controller, one that would benefit 90% of the games, then maybe you should buy a Competition Pro 5200 Joystick.  it works for every game except for not working as intended on analog games, and a couple of digital games, but I think I might have a solution to it.

 

The Competition Pro registers a fixed voltage to a constant Maximum north or south, when pressed, or verticaly neutral when not pressed.   Horizontal is similar.  The Original Atari 5200 has a circular restrictor.  It was designed to physically as opposed to computationally compensate for the "Diagonal Speed Boost"  Your velocity is the same in any direction when pressed to the edge.  That's the way most analog sticks are designed.

 

The Apple IIe analog joysticks had a square restrictor, which let you actuate maximum North and maximum East at the same time.  The problem comes when you're mixing technologies.   Competiiton Pro assumes Square, meaning 100% N and 100% E simultaneously.  For most games this isn't a problem, but there are a couple games where it SHOULD work, but doesn't because of this flaw.  I think Popeye and Mountain King were 2 games.  Obviously analog games aren't a problem.

 

There is a competition pro on ebay which they could test the second button becuase they had second button problems on the orgiinal 5200 joystick you had to plug in didn't work for the seller.   We know how to install buttons.  The secret is physical digital to electronic analog converters.
 

If the problem games work by dialing back the voltages to 70% (Because .7 squared = .49 and .49+.49=.98 which is almost a maximum radius of 1), then we have to test to see if the cardinals actuate at the 70% level.   If it does, then you have a universal 5200 Digital controller.  If some digital games don't work with the dampened voltages, then a switch can be used to switch between the voltages, guaranteeing universal compatibility.

 

Or maybe a voltage alterer on the X and Y axis which fits in between a Competition Pro and the 5200 system, that can be taken on and off as needed.
 

I personally think the 5200 analog games are fine as they are with a non-self-centering joystick.  Don't believe me?  Try playing a quick paddle game like Breakout or Warlords on the Xbox One Flashback with the self-centering analog pad.   THOSE games suck with a self centering stick.   The digital games benefit HIGHLY from self centering.   Probably the only game that would benefit from the analog self-centering stick is Galaxian, with 2 analog speeds and a need to stop on a dime. That would come in handy.  It has analog relative directions, and the ability to stop is key.

 

Also one last thing about mirroring buttons, games like Tutankham have a left fire and right fire, and would be reversed if you follow the "index-to-index rule" where the main button is the index finger one,  So a switch to alternate to swap L and R in the case of the Coleco or 7800, or T and B for the 5200 would be handy.   If not built in, then a pin swapping add on for those who need it.  That's the reason why the Sega MAster System joystick was poorly received.  It was right handed, but didn't follow the index-to-index remapping rule.  You were middle-finger rapid-fire pumping with that joystick.  Giving yourself the bird .) Tiring yourself out.

 

If I'm wrong, if there any ANALOG games (meaning distance from center affects your gameplay) that can benefit from self centering besides Galaxian, I'd like to hear it.

 

 

But I guess if it's for Galaxian alone, as well as true digital games, it's worth it. Even though a Genesis to 5200 adapter would be better for digital games, because I can buy a PS2-> Genesis adapter.

 

Just showing for the record that it may come in handy for digital joysticks, and most analog games are better with the default 5200 stick, (Missile Command, Kaboom, and Star Wars work better with no self-centering), so don't even bother trying to create the universal control.   Probably analog self centering is just as handy as a true digital stick, but if you want to invest in a digital 5200 stick, with possibly the auxiliary button not working, depending on if the 5200 controller works on that button or not, try talking this guy down on the fact the the aux button is unknown to work: https://www.ebay.com...ity!44273!US!-1  The button technology is not the hard part, the digital stick to analog signal converter IS.



#11 BIGHMW OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:31 PM

I'm working on it, but it remains on the back burner while we digest the waitlist that came after the Kickstarter campaign for Coleco controllers.

 

The Super 52 will include an analog, self-centering joystick, two pair of Suzo-Happ arcade fire buttons for ambidextrous play, and a membrane keypad for the numbers.  I have not decided whether to have a new membrane keypad made with the numbers and the three function keys, or to use an existing numeric keypad and add three hardware buttons.  Lastly, I plan to include a paddle control for the single-axis games, such as Super Breakout, Pole Position, Galaxian, etc. 

When you design the paddle controller make sure it works with Tempest, I would buy your paddle controllers mostly so I can use it in that!!! :)

 

Albert, get ready to make a few more sales on both this and the Tempest cartridge when this project is completed, you're gonna need to keep up with the onslaught of backorders for both!!! :)


Edited by BIGHMW, Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:32 PM.


#12 edladdin OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:00 PM

 

Ed of Edladdin,a  funny thing.   If you want to build a Digital controller, one that would benefit 90% of the games, then maybe you should buy a Competition Pro 5200 Joystick.  it works for every game except for not working as intended on analog games, and a couple of digital games, but I think I might have a solution to it.

 

The Competition Pro registers a fixed voltage to a constant Maximum north or south, when pressed, or verticaly neutral when not pressed.   Horizontal is similar.  The Original Atari 5200 has a circular restrictor.  It was designed to physically as opposed to computationally compensate for the "Diagonal Speed Boost"  Your velocity is the same in any direction when pressed to the edge.  That's the way most analog sticks are designed.

 

The Apple IIe analog joysticks had a square restrictor, which let you actuate maximum North and maximum East at the same time.  The problem comes when you're mixing technologies.   Competiiton Pro assumes Square, meaning 100% N and 100% E simultaneously.  For most games this isn't a problem, but there are a couple games where it SHOULD work, but doesn't because of this flaw.  I think Popeye and Mountain King were 2 games.  Obviously analog games aren't a problem.

 

There is a competition pro on ebay which they could test the second button becuase they had second button problems on the orgiinal 5200 joystick you had to plug in didn't work for the seller.   We know how to install buttons.  The secret is physical digital to electronic analog converters.
 

If the problem games work by dialing back the voltages to 70% (Because .7 squared = .49 and .49+.49=.98 which is almost a maximum radius of 1), then we have to test to see if the cardinals actuate at the 70% level.   If it does, then you have a universal 5200 Digital controller.  If some digital games don't work with the dampened voltages, then a switch can be used to switch between the voltages, guaranteeing universal compatibility.

 

Or maybe a voltage alterer on the X and Y axis which fits in between a Competition Pro and the 5200 system, that can be taken on and off as needed.
 

I personally think the 5200 analog games are fine as they are with a non-self-centering joystick.  Don't believe me?  Try playing a quick paddle game like Breakout or Warlords on the Xbox One Flashback with the self-centering analog pad.   THOSE games suck with a self centering stick.   The digital games benefit HIGHLY from self centering.   Probably the only game that would benefit from the analog self-centering stick is Galaxian, with 2 analog speeds and a need to stop on a dime. That would come in handy.  It has analog relative directions, and the ability to stop is key.

 

Also one last thing about mirroring buttons, games like Tutankham have a left fire and right fire, and would be reversed if you follow the "index-to-index rule" where the main button is the index finger one,  So a switch to alternate to swap L and R in the case of the Coleco or 7800, or T and B for the 5200 would be handy.   If not built in, then a pin swapping add on for those who need it.  That's the reason why the Sega MAster System joystick was poorly received.  It was right handed, but didn't follow the index-to-index remapping rule.  You were middle-finger rapid-fire pumping with that joystick.  Giving yourself the bird .) Tiring yourself out.

 

If I'm wrong, if there any ANALOG games (meaning distance from center affects your gameplay) that can benefit from self centering besides Galaxian, I'd like to hear it.

 

 

But I guess if it's for Galaxian alone, as well as true digital games, it's worth it. Even though a Genesis to 5200 adapter would be better for digital games, because I can buy a PS2-> Genesis adapter.

 

Just showing for the record that it may come in handy for digital joysticks, and most analog games are better with the default 5200 stick, (Missile Command, Kaboom, and Star Wars work better with no self-centering), so don't even bother trying to create the universal control.   Probably analog self centering is just as handy as a true digital stick, but if you want to invest in a digital 5200 stick, with possibly the auxiliary button not working, depending on if the 5200 controller works on that button or not, try talking this guy down on the fact the the aux button is unknown to work: https://www.ebay.com...ity!44273!US!-1  The button technology is not the hard part, the digital stick to analog signal converter IS.

 

Very interesting!  I appreciate your sharing these ideas.   I DO feel like its important to offer an analog stick, as I am a huge fan of Dreadnaught Factor, which is a ship where analog acceleration is essential for success.  I also want to nail down an analog technology so that I can offer the same control to the Vectrex community after the 5200 is served.

 

One of the huge lessons I learned in the ColecoVision project was that inserting elements of emulation and digital manipulation lead to unexpected problems and glitches.  After it was all done, we ended up with a straight passive copy of the original Super Action controller.  The Super CV has had a flawless record of success with every game tested, AFAIK.  In contrast, our Super Arcade Controller and the PLUS version are microprocessor-drive emulators and they create weirdo problems with a handful of CV games on certain CV consoles.  We never nailed down where the problems really were, let alone resolved them.

 

For the Super 52, my wish would be to deliver TWO versions:

 

1. Economical version:  Uses potentiometer-driven analog joystick + Potentiometer-driven paddle controller. 

 

2. Deluxe version:  Uses hall-effect analog joystick + optical encoder that can operate in paddle more or spinner mode

 

With both versions, I would like to have a switch that allows the stick to operate in analog mode versus "digital" mode. 

Also looking at pass-through DB9 conversion so you can drive your 5200 with a Genesis controller or an Atari 2600/7800 controller, while the Super 52 provides the keypad and function buttons.



#13 edladdin OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:12 PM

When you design the paddle controller make sure it works with Tempest, I would buy your paddle controllers mostly so I can use it in that!!! :)

 

Albert, get ready to make a few more sales on both this and the Tempest cartridge when this project is completed, you're gonna need to keep up with the onslaught of backorders for both!!! :)

 

This is a tricky thing!  The most economical option is a potentiometer-driven paddle controller, which works exactly like an Atari 2600 paddle.  But pot paddles make poor spinners and this would not be so great with Tempest.   To create a great spinner, we need a much more expensive optical encoder with a circuit that tells it to operate in native spinner mode, or forces it to behave like a paddle.   Its not at all impossible, but its much more expensive to get there.

 

With all that said, I've got a copy of 5200 Tempest myself, so I'm keen to have the full monty.

 

Does anyone have a line on an inexpensive optical encoder?   The ones I am seeing start at $70 each.



#14 Swami OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:43 PM

 
This is a tricky thing!  The most economical option is a potentiometer-driven paddle controller, which works exactly like an Atari 2600 paddle.  But pot paddles make poor spinners and this would not be so great with Tempest.   To create a great spinner, we need a much more expensive optical encoder with a circuit that tells it to operate in native spinner mode, or forces it to behave like a paddle.   Its not at all impossible, but its much more expensive to get there.
 
With all that said, I've got a copy of 5200 Tempest myself, so I'm keen to have the full monty.
 
Does anyone have a line on an inexpensive optical encoder?   The ones I am seeing start at $70 each.

Maybe this, 2 for 20:
https://www.vexrobot...BCAAEgK3j_D_BwE

Or amiganet sells a $40 optical 400dpi Amiga mouse, like a common usb mouse, except with bus mouse output, so that would be solid state. You might get a discount in quantity.

#15 tripletopper OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:32 PM

 

Very interesting!  I appreciate your sharing these ideas.   I DO feel like its important to offer an analog stick, as I am a huge fan of Dreadnaught Factor, which is a ship where analog acceleration is essential for success.  I also want to nail down an analog technology so that I can offer the same control to the Vectrex community after the 5200 is served.

 

One of the huge lessons I learned in the ColecoVision project was that inserting elements of emulation and digital manipulation lead to unexpected problems and glitches.  After it was all done, we ended up with a straight passive copy of the original Super Action controller.  The Super CV has had a flawless record of success with every game tested, AFAIK.  In contrast, our Super Arcade Controller and the PLUS version are microprocessor-drive emulators and they create weirdo problems with a handful of CV games on certain CV consoles.  We never nailed down where the problems really were, let alone resolved them.

 

For the Super 52, my wish would be to deliver TWO versions:

 

1. Economical version:  Uses potentiometer-driven analog joystick + Potentiometer-driven paddle controller. 

 

2. Deluxe version:  Uses hall-effect analog joystick + optical encoder that can operate in paddle more or spinner mode

 

With both versions, I would like to have a switch that allows the stick to operate in analog mode versus "digital" mode. 

Also looking at pass-through DB9 conversion so you can drive your 5200 with a Genesis controller or an Atari 2600/7800 controller, while the Super 52 provides the keypad and function buttons.

 

 

Hey Ed of Edladdin:

 

That was mainly a stream-of-consciousness, where at first I was advocating a digital joystick for the 90% of games where either controls need to be instantly shifted on a frame, or have to find the exact center or else you'll be screwed, and then I saw, there is no such thing as a  Swiss Army Knife for the 5200, ie one controller that can do everything.   The 3 games I mentioned, Star Wars, Kaboom, Missile Command are best with the default 5200 controller where there is no self-centering.   I used the case of Warlords on Atari Flashback for Xbox One where adding self-centering when not intended can ruin you.

 

Then I thought, if it had self centering, would that make it an effective combined digital/analog joystick?  i thought of the case of Galaxian, where both a) the x axis is analog in 5 ranges, fast left, slow left, stop, slow right, and fast right, and b) there is a benefit to "finding the center" easier, which I believe you don't want to move between two bullets with barely enough width for one ship.

 

I honestly only played Dreadnaught Factor on an Atari 800 bootleg floppy, so I only experienced it with a 2600/800 digital stick.   I guess both varying velocity/acceleration rates come in handy in that game.   It can come in handy if you're used to it.

 

Probably the best solution to the those who want a Digital stick is a Genesis and/or 7800 to 5200 adapter (for which I can use a Tototek PS2-> Genesis adapter, and plug THAT in the Genesis to 5200 adapter, along wiht YOUR Genesis to 7800 adapter, which is the only one to work with 2 button games.)  with either built in keypad or allow for a real working 5200 controller as a backup keypad. Maybe it can have a 15-pin port with one of 3 things attachable to it, a new keypad made just for this device, a real 5200 joystick, or a "button mapper" for a Genesis 6 button controller, where any button can equal Top, Bottom, or any of the 15 keypad presses.

 

Here are a couple possibilities for using the extra buttons of the Genesis.  If Defender uses the keypad for an extra function like Hyperspace, that can be the C button, or this one game I remember for the Atari 800 (bootleg floppy again) which was probably a 5200 game originally. (I think it was Countermeasure, but I'm not sure) where you had to type in combinations of keyboard buttons 1 2 3 in a 3 digit combination before the atomic bomb went off.

 

You can go to the bunker early, but you'd be guessing codes until you luck out or die.  The preliminary part of the game was finding pieces of code by shooting stuff and other non-sepeciific stuff I remember.  The countdown code was the most memorable thing on it.  If you found one piece of the code, you can guess all 9 possible codes as guesses in time easily.  At least on level 1.   Does level 2 and beyond have either more possible "letters of the alphabet" or "letters in the word" or both?

 

But I assume for every digital game, a self-centering analog joystick would work just as well.   I guess for Galaxian and Dreadnaught the self centering analog would be perfect.  If it doesn't a nine-pin for Genesis/7800 (2600 won't work for some games, too few buttons.) would be a good addition too.

 

Also about the Colecovision controller. you have a 12 button physical keypad in your "wire-up board" kit.  What would I do if I want to wire up the 1 , 2 and 3 buttons for the doors in Mouse Trap and the 5 for Dog to my fight stick, but also have the keypad for level selection.

 

Speaking of Colecovision, have you tried your Colecovision Super Action Clone Stick and/or board on Q Bert's Qubes and Activision Decathlon?  Those are 2 games I only got working with a real Standard CV controller and not a Real CV Super Action controller.   Q Bert's Qubes has a bug where if I press a keypad button to select my skill level, and I don't release it instantly, the cubes go nuts and it ends in a runtime error and freezes.  Also in Activision Decathlon, the jump/throw button is either alternating on/off automatically and/or being permenantly held down, therefore my jumps and throws are always at the earliest possible point and not even close to the optimal angle.  Does your CV stick and/or board do those games correctly?  Have you noticed those problems on a real CV Super Action stick?

 

A couple other things for the future, a Saturn -> Jaguar Pro (plus external aux buttons and keypad) adapter, a 4-way/8way joystick for Intelliviison and/or a Genesis to Intellivision adapter, for both original INTV 2 plugs as well as "flashback modded" INTV 1's and 3's.

 

If you make enough of the joysticks, and have enough of the formats, maybe an Omni Classic stick makes sense, where the stick is a Naked DB25 wit one wire-per-control and then an appropriate adapter for each system.  Buy what you want and reuse the joystick and save money per console.  Here's a couple pictures on my website of how to easilty make an ambidextrous stick without compromising contours.:

 

http://56ok.org/Ambb...trous/index.htm

 

Finally, your cheapest product, a pin swapper to connect Atari 2600 (or Colecovision, or 7800, or Master System, or Genesis) Joysticks to Astrocade Machines, and a separate product for vice versa (in one-button mode).  I say don't bother with the paddle, (or if you do, offer a cheaper Joystick-only version.  The Astrocade padddles need to double for an Atari, and the Atari Paddles in some Bally games need a joystick too. I don't know how to build one myself, and you';re the only person who types good English who works on these old American Systems simultaneously.  Plus there's electronic issues that I don't understand.  the website where the pinouts are at is http://www.glankonia...lance/Hack.html



#16 phuzaxeman OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:42 PM

 

 

If I'm wrong, if there any ANALOG games (meaning distance from center affects your gameplay) that can benefit from self centering besides Galaxian, I'd like to hear it.

 

 

But I guess if it's for Galaxian alone, as well as true digital games, it's worth it. Even though a Genesis to 5200 adapter would be better for digital games, because I can buy a PS2-> Genesis adapter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have the records for Galaxian on a stock stick.  I love the stock stick because you can maneuver in ways a digital stick can't on the 5200 galaxian version. 



#17 Inky ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:08 AM

Ben Heck recently made a 5200 Game Pad on his Youtube show.



#18 onemoretime OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 8, 2018 6:20 PM

I'm working on it, but it remains on the back burner while we digest the waitlist that came after the Kickstarter campaign for Coleco controllers.

 

The Super 52 will include an analog, self-centering joystick, two pair of Suzo-Happ arcade fire buttons for ambidextrous play, and a membrane keypad for the numbers.  I have not decided whether to have a new membrane keypad made with the numbers and the three function keys, or to use an existing numeric keypad and add three hardware buttons.  Lastly, I plan to include a paddle control for the single-axis games, such as Super Breakout, Pole Position, Galaxian, etc. 

Can t wait.



#19 deepthaw OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:21 PM

 

1. Economical version:  Uses potentiometer-driven analog joystick + Potentiometer-driven paddle controller. 

 

2. Deluxe version:  Uses hall-effect analog joystick + optical encoder that can operate in paddle more or spinner mode

 

With both versions, I would like to have a switch that allows the stick to operate in analog mode versus "digital" mode. 

Also looking at pass-through DB9 conversion so you can drive your 5200 with a Genesis controller or an Atari 2600/7800 controller, while the Super 52 provides the keypad and function buttons.

 

How difficult would it be to have a d-pad that always functions in digital mode in addition to the stick similar to how modern controllers have both analog and a d-pad? Or would that run contrary to the planned ergonomics?

 

*edit* Now that I look at the Super CV I see why you'd opt for a switch - that's an actual beast of a joystick!


Edited by deepthaw, Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:25 PM.


#20 tripletopper OFFLINE  

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Posted Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:46 PM

Remember when consoles were single game-pieces of plastic and circuits.   Then Fairchild came up wiht the removable ROM?   Maybe since there are MANY requests fr MANY different things to do with MANY different pre-Crash , Atari JAguar, and other similar systems, than maybe there should be a "joystick system"

 

Have 8 buttons like a modern fight stick,(because Jaugar is technically an Atari system and you need something for the pro controller .) )  mapped "index-to-index" by default, but could have their button functions somehow changed, for right handed Tutankham and left handed Front Line,  and 2 keypad controllers, one on each side, ( I don't know what to do about 5 different size overlays, INTV, 5200, CV standard, CV Super action, and Jaguar, and that doesn't count an Emerson Arcadia 2001 which has no place to detach or attach a joystick.  I guess Edladdn could have professional overlays printed for his joystick system so you save the real overlays as collectables, or make the custom sized/spaced images printable, available on a blank paper overlay template. ) and in the center, you can anything a retroplayer would want, paddles for 5200 Super Breakout and Kaboom, spinner for Tempset 2000 in Jaugar, A choice of any to all 3 of digital fight stick, or an analog stick, whihc on some games makes sense if ithey center, and on others make more sense if hthe DON'T center.  Wico made a variably-centrering analog joystick.   Add a trackball because genuine 2600 and  5200 trackballs are hard to find, and would work for 7800 Centipede TB.

 

Now paying for all this for one system would be a ridiculous price.   I know a way to make the pain easier, spread it over multiple systems, just change the tail on each system with a 35 pin connector where each pin represents a single function, and the Joystick is naked, just like a modern Nintendo Switch is Naked, until you either pay to download a game or buy a cartridge, clothe it with the tail of whatever connector you want to hook it up to.  What's more ridiculous, pay $200 each generation for a new fight stick for each generation, or paying $20-30 to add a new tail for basically the same stick in the same physical form, but a different electronic encoding form?  If you start out one-pin-is-one-function, then you just wire it into a PCB, like a Playstation 1 Dual Shock 1, then you can work with lots of systems, because PS1 is probably the best "post-crash system" to deal with is because a) there are already existing adapters which go from PS1 to MANY different console, both before it and after, even 2 of today's consoles directly and the switch indirectly by chaining 2 adapters and b) has all the controls used in modern consoles (Have console controls really changed much since the PS1 Dual Shock 1?   I can't tell the difference between an Xbox 360 and an Xbox One in terms of significant form OR lost functionalty, or an Original Xbox controller in terms of Functionality, even the form is WAY different.)  This would be the prefect Swiss army knife of PS/Xbox controllers.  (NIntendo controllers are another issue entirely)

 

The would be in vertical sloped slabs, where the buttons are horizontally symmetric, like a paw formation With the middle and Ring finger being slightly forward of the index and ring, and you hand is cocked right in that formation with either hand.  

 

Or you can make it  a twin stick controller.  Then the controller can have one digital stick, one analog stick, 2 digital sticks, 2 analog sticks, one of each, and so you can operate every control without moving your hands off one part of the joystick to reach another, a separate shaft with finger buttons, for index, middle, ring, and pinky fingers, and either a digital hat switch, or an analog thumbstick by the thumb.  You can control 8 axes and 8 buttons with this set up, and don't need any other control and can have your hand on ANY and ALL of them at once.  The vertical slabs make it so you don't need 2 sets of fight stick buttons, just one that is horizontally symmetrical in a frown formation.

 

For Qbert and Frogger, an "always on" button with a self centering joystick would be cool, so you just flick and go, just like the arcade.   (By the way for QBert, you need a 45 degreee rotator.  The digital porion of the joysticks can have 4/8 way gates, like Edladdin already has,

 

The final thing that is needed is an Intellivision 16-way, one-intensity-plus-neutral Joystick.  I don't know how to do this especially considering the INTV joystick code is just that, a code. which means N+NE does not equal NNE, sort of like how N + E in digital sticks equals NE.   Someone is working on the code for a Genesis 8-way stick conversion.   Maybe one can have an Analog simulation with a decent dead zone and an instant 100% actuation once it crosses the dead zone, and slice it into 16 pie pieces, instead of X and Y, then you can do it with an analog stick.  That's how the Playstation 2, Xbox, and Game Cube, use a 16-way on their machines.

 

The idea is you buy what you want, sort of like you buy the games you want, and reuse the things that can be reused.  That would be the best value.






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