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Controller adapters to use Jaguar or Genesis controller on Intellivision


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#26 tripletopper OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:32 AM

As for the INTV FB<-> INTV 2 converters, if you don't want to add that functionality, may I refer you to intelliviisonaries.com the INTV podcast, and Nurmix uses it as a store for his INTV FB-> INTV 1 and INTV FB-> INTV 2 passive  controller adapters.  I own a pair of INTV FB-> INTV 1  adapters, even installed them myself, and bought 3 Flashback pads, 2 for the new console, and one to pad hack or a fight stick.  If you don't want to add the feature, consider it taken care of.

 

Unfortunately, I understand pad hacking enough to know in most consoles (North=1 AND East = 1) electronically equals NE. The 2 toughest system to deal with that problem are the 5200 and Intelllivision.  With the 5200, 100% N + 100 % E = 141% NE.  Only a couple games go into error when that happens, and that can be prevented with a mechanical 4/8-way switchable gate which prevents diagonals.

 

Intellivision requires actual processing brains because one pin does not equal one direction.  Northeast is a separate actuator and not just the electronic sum of the North plus East.   It would require some sort of circuit somewhere which either on the joystick, actuate another switch when the 2 cardinals are combined, or what you're doing on the Inteliivision.  Since it's stupid to re-invent the wheel, I'll wait until this comes out.  I may get either one Genesis and One Jaguar or 2 Genesis ones, depending on how "keypad heavy" certain Intelliivison games are.  I guess it depends on what my main 2up, either my firends or my brother, want for intellivision, either a Genesis or a Jaguar.



#27 SiLic0ne t0aD OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:15 PM

If these ever become available, I'd like to order 2 please! I'll have to buy a Jag controller now. :)

#28 tripletopper OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:19 PM

I know it takes electronic brains to make this work.  You just can't pad-hack an intellivision controller and make it work.    You're going to need CPU brains somewhere.   I'd like one Genesis one and one Jaguar one.



#29 tripletopper OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:28 PM

As for the INTV FB<-> INTV 2 converters, if you don't want to add that functionality, may I refer you to intelliviisonaries.com the INTV podcast, and Nurmix uses it as a store for his INTV FB-> INTV 1 and INTV FB-> INTV 2 passive  controller adapters.  I own a pair of INTV FB-> INTV 1  adapters, even installed them myself, and bought 3 Flashback pads, 2 for the new console, and one to pad hack or a fight stick.  If you don't want to add the feature, consider it taken care of.

 

Unfortunately, I understand pad hacking enough to know in most consoles (North=1 AND East = 1) electronically equals NE. The 2 toughest system to deal with that problem are the 5200 and Intelllivision.  With the 5200, 100% N + 100 % E = 141% NE.  Only a couple games go into error when that happens, and that can be prevented with a mechanical 4/8-way switchable gate which prevents diagonals.

 

Intellivision requires actual processing brains because one pin does not equal one direction.  Northeast is a separate actuator and not just the electronic sum of the North plus East.   It would require some sort of circuit somewhere which either on the joystick, actuate another switch when the 2 cardinals are combined, or what you're doing on the Inteliivision.  Since it's stupid to re-invent the wheel, I'll wait until this comes out.  I may get either one Genesis and One Jaguar or 2 Genesis ones, depending on how "keypad heavy" certain Intelliivison games are.  I guess it depends on what my main 2up, either my firends or my brother, want for intellivision, either a Genesis or a Jaguar.

I just confirmed he can do reverse Flashback adapters and INTV 2 controller-> INTV 1 console adapters too.  But not now, his "blank" db9 heads have to come in.  But they shouid be ready by the time the INTV Genesis and Jaguar adapters are ready.

 

I asked if he could do Atari joystick -> Astrocade console adapters, he said he COULD do it, but with no guarantee, because he has no Astrocade machine or Atari controller to test it with.



#30 tripletopper OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 5, 2018 8:40 PM

Also a Playstation to INTV adapter can work with the analog controller if it was divided into 16 regions and a neutral center.  Plus a d-pad can be used for 4-way/8way. Just add a female for the INTV 2 keypad.

 

If you decide to make Playstation ones, I'd like two for Playstation-> INTV. Otherwise I'll take one Genesis and One Jaguar and HOPE a double conversion of PS2-> Jaguar->INTV or PS2->Genesis-> INTV works.  OR hore someone to dismantle a Genesis (3 button/6-button? I assume it doesn't matter)

 

Also I'm not familiar with the Intellivision enough to go off childhood memories. I believe both top buttons are equal and are the actuated by your index trigger finger.   And the 2 bottom buttons are independent, there is a bottom left and bottom right.

 

Also are there any games where "Left action button" and "Right Action button" are more import than the concept of primary, secondary, tertiary?  And in game where there there is a primary, secondary, and tertiary, is the left the secondary and the right the tertiary, or vice versa. (The primary would be ambidextrous as Top.)

 

With a left handed Genesis and Jaguar joystick, what is the mapping? Gen ABC=Jag CBA = INTV TLR   If reversed for right handed play, what would be the primary setup: Gen CBA=Jag ABC= INTV RLT?  Are there any games where you want INTV LRT.

 

As I said, I may get a Genesis 3 button pad-hacked anyway, and MAY get a Jag pad hacked if the PS2->Jaguar device doesn't come to fruition.  So if you decide not to make PS2-> INTV adapters, I'll take one Genesis and One Jaguar rom you.   And once I do, I need 2 INTV2-> INTV 1 adapters, and 2 INTV FB-> INTV 2 adapters from Nurmix to get these to work with an INTV 1 console and 2 INTV FB controllers.



#31 grips03 ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 5, 2018 9:33 PM

delete



#32 tripletopper OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:31 PM

1) Any update?

 

2)  A different person has a Genesis to INTV adapter, but there's one problem with theirs:  it is at most a 2-button joystick.   T and BL are the 2 independent buttons and pressing them both gives you BR.   That would be good as long as you don't need simultaneous multi-presses.

 

2a) Does your adapter have 3 independent buttons?

 

2b) Do you know enough about INTV games to know whether the 1=T 2=BL 1+2=BR arrangement will not work for some games.  I guess it depends on if the INTV joystick language only understands one button at a time, or whether all 3 buttons are independent.  I know enough about the INTV joystick language toknow that each joystick pin is a bit in a 6 or 7 bit arrangement, and pressing the wrong combination of things makes for weird game results.


Edited by tripletopper, Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:32 PM.


#33 mr_me OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:21 AM

When you press two of the three intellivision side buttons at the same time, it's equivalent to pressing all three buttons. The intellivision would have no way of knowing which two side buttons were pressed. Programs would have to be written specifically to handle this case. Defender is one cartridge that does so you can fire a missile and a smart bomb at the same time. Pinball is another but I'd probably play intellivision pinball with keypad buttons. Space Hawk, for example, does nothing when you press top and bottom side buttons at the same time.

The button arrangement described by tripletopper would be a bit awkward with pinball and tutankham. There's only a few cartridges where left and right side buttons are different, e.g. nova blast. The intellivision controller works best when left and right side buttons have the same function.

Edited by mr_me, Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:29 AM.


#34 tripletopper OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:30 PM

By the way, 7800fan, the builder of these devices and original posted, told me in a private message his reason why he hasn't been answering this forum recently.  I'll let him tell it when he's ready.

 

But assuming what he says i true, and I have no reason to believe it's not true, so I'll assume it's true, (a default position that would go a long way in building friendships), he has a perfectly cromulent reason why he's not answering.

 

And it's not a slow boat from China.

 

Meanwhile this other forum has them available now.  It's a little cheaper, but doesn't have simul-presses.  People have to decide if it's worth it now.



#35 tripletopper OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:08 PM

When you press two of the three intellivision side buttons at the same time, it's equivalent to pressing all three buttons. The intellivision would have no way of knowing which two side buttons were pressed. Programs would have to be written specifically to handle this case. Defender is one cartridge that does so you can fire a missile and a smart bomb at the same time. Pinball is another but I'd probably play intellivision pinball with keypad buttons. Space Hawk, for example, does nothing when you press top and bottom side buttons at the same time.

The button arrangement described by tripletopper would be a bit awkward with pinball and tutankham. There's only a few cartridges where left and right side buttons are different, e.g. nova blast. The intellivision controller works best when left and right side buttons have the same function.

 

About Tutankham and pinball, I assume the Bottom left and bottom right are 2 different buttons, and left is left flipper/shoot left, and right is right flipper/shoot right. and i guess either top button (because you have a third button available)  or BL+BR (because that's how they do it on Colecovision) is genie wish bomb.

 

The reason why I ask is because most modern games, when you flip to right handed, make the buttons flip horizontally, so that in Street Fighter, your light attacks are on your index finger, middles on middle finger, and heavies on ring finger, no matter which way you hold the stick.  How does INTV deal with flipping? It doesn't, it assumes you use default controller, love it or hate it. :S

 

Would you say most INTV games have a concept of a left and right button or primary/secondary/tertiary?

 

The problem is if you use a fight stick, and you define the left stick as "normal" and have 3 buttons laid out  (S  T  BL BR), then flipping it in the traditional would be : (BR  BL T   S), which makes left to fire right and right to fire left.

 

So it's kind of depends on what would be both the primary left stick fighting arrangement, and what would be the right.  IF  (S T BL BR) is normal for left handed, then is the right stick considered  (BR BL T S) OR (BL BR T S)?

 

So more games uses a Left/Right model than a primary/secondary/tertiary model, i suppose.  By the way on a P/S/T model, is the left button button considered secondary, or the right button, so is left clawing/ right d-padding considered the baseline normal, and the other an also ran?
 

Atari 5200 is a truly 2 button ambidextrous setup, there's a bottom button and a top button, but you have an index finger and thumb.  Your index finger is always on the bottom button, and thumb is always on the top button, hence the bottom button is always the "main" button, and the top button is the "aux" button.  Colecovision Super Action has a similar ambidextrous setup for 4 buttons.

 

But games with a definite left and right shouldn't be played with a Super Action Controller, like Tutankham, (Stick, Left Fire, Right Fire) vs (Right FIre, LEft FIre, Stick).

 

 But then again, Front Line works right in a right handed setup: (Grenade/Board/Abandon tank, Rotate ACW, Rotate CW, Rifle/Tank fire  Stick) works right right handed,  but doesn't work right on a traditional left-stick setup:  (Stick, Rifle/Tank fire, Rotate CW, Rotate ACW, Grenade/Board/Abandon Tank)  Since you're going up mainly, CW is right and ACW is left... unless you "cover your 6", then it makes sense.


Edited by tripletopper, Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:10 PM.


#36 mr_me OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:25 PM

With pinball, top side button does both flippers. I find it easier using the keypad and pressing the two keypad buttons to flip both flippers.

With tutankham, the top side button does the flash bomb, bottom left fires left and bottom right fires right. I would have preferred top side fires left, bottom side fires right, and keypad for flash bomb.

To me, the intellivision controller should be used as a two button controller. The top side button can be the primary action, bottom side can be the secondary action button. Buttons mirrored on both sides for left and right handed players.

Edited by mr_me, Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:46 PM.


#37 tripletopper OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:18 PM

With pinball, top side button does both flippers. I find it easier using the keypad and pressing the two keypad buttons to flip both flippers.

With tutankham, the top side button does the flash bomb, bottom left fires left and bottom right fires right. I would have preferred top side fires left, bottom side fires right, and keypad for flash bomb.

To me, the intellivision controller should be used as a two button controller. The top side button can be the primary action, bottom side can be the secondary action button. Buttons mirrored on both sides for left and right handed players.

 

I'm assuming you're a "d-pad right" kind of guy. At least on INTV.

 

Me too ;)  And for WAY more than just INTV.   Almost everything I haven't developed good muscle memory for through years of the industry drumming in left-stick ever since the NES became popular i prefer a right handed stick. :(

 

You're also holding it opposite of what INTV considers natural. Thumb high, Index low.  INTV Assumes index high, thumb low.   At least the 5200 got the ergonomics of that one right. :)

 

What you have is basically a Colecovision setup.  And unless something in the INTV joystick language prevents 2 button presses, then I'd want L+R=Genie Wish Bomb.  But if there is, then the unused bottom button would be better than a keypad.  Don't want to "take your hands off the wheel".

 

A hypothetical 5200 version of Tutankham, as well your setup, Mr_Me, would have to have you define shoot right at the beginning by pressing the right button, which is the bottom button if you're right stick, or the top button if you're left stick on the 5200, and the opposite for INTV.  Because both halves mirror each other horizontally, and usually the concept of "main" and "aux" is heavier on the 5200, you need this button setup on games with an obvious "left action" and "right action".

 

If you had to manually press each shot, that would be killer.  Thank you developers for rapid fire naturally in the game. :)

 

And both buttons together are Genie Wish Bomb.


Edited by tripletopper, Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:27 PM.


#38 mr_me OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:03 PM

I use my index finger on the top side button and middle finger on the bottom side button. If it makes a difference what function is given to top or bottom, the programmer can add a setting to flip them. Intellivision side buttons are a little stiff, so I'd prefer the third function on the keypad rather than pressing two side buttons together.

#39 tripletopper OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jan 4, 2019 11:36 AM

By the way, 7800fan, the builder of these devices and original posted, told me in a private message his reason why he hasn't been answering this forum recently.  I'll let him tell it when he's ready.

 

But assuming what he says i true, and I have no reason to believe it's not true, so I'll assume it's true, (a default position that would go a long way in building friendships), he has a perfectly cromulent reason why he's not answering.

 

And it's not a slow boat from China.

 

Meanwhile this other forum has them available now.  It's a little cheaper, but doesn't have simul-presses.  People have to decide if it's worth it now.

 

 

It’s been more than a month since @7800fan answered this forum with news about A Gen->INTV or a Jag->INTV adapter.   He didn’t say how long he’d be, but based on the reason he told me, and I didn’t reveal his reason for the delay in answering, it sounded like a two-week to one-month layoff.

 

 

Well, it’s 5 weeks now.   I hope the issue with 7800fan clears up, but understand if it doesn’t.   If I don’t hear by next Friday, I’ll send him a private message.   He told me it was ready to go, but the issue has to clear up.

 

And no, based on what he PMed me a month ago, it’s not a technical issue or a slow boat from China issue.






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