S-video terminal purchase for use with Bryan's UAV Rev. D

[Amerika]

I know this is a dumb question but I am having a hell of a time finding the terminal I need to purchase for Bryan's s-video mod for my 7800. The only thing I can find is this guy. I'd much rather find one that is a bit smaller and lets me simply drill a hole for the jack, tighten it down and solder on the wires just like I did for the RCA jacks. Does anybody have a recommendation?

 

[Osgeld]

its a 4 pin mini din

 

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=4+pin+mini+din+panel+mount&source=lnms&tbm=shop&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiY2YXh3e3bAhWFq1MKHVilCckQ_AUICigB&biw=1440&bih=794

 

i personally like these

 

https://www.digikey.com/products/en/connectors-interconnects/circular-connectors/436?k=&pkeyword=&pv69=538&FV=1600006%2Cffe001b4%2C35c007c&quantity=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&stock=1&pageSize=25

 

you can use the nut on either side dpending if you want the final finish to be mostly flush with a nut, or sticking out

Edited June 25, 2018 by Osgeld

[Amerika]

Thank you very much. That is exactly what I was looking for and I didn't know the proper search term which was making it hard to find anything relevant.

[H454]

I've found this one pretty good to use:

https://console5.com/store/s-video-jack-gold.html

 

The one osgeld at digikey is good too. If your not very good at soldering to small pins, a break out board / adapter can make things a little easier.

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/F8QZNPqC

[Osgeld]

I have also used a pile of these

 

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cui-inc/MD-40PL100/CP-2940-ND/500827

 

its 3 holes but if you measure right, countersink the screw heads it ends up being dead nuts flush with the exterior of the case of most plastic shell electronics (but you can also only drill one hole and epoxy the thing from the back and it wont give as long as it doesnt get kicked around)

Edited June 25, 2018 by Osgeld

[+-^CrossBow^-]

My only problem with s-video jacks currently available is that they do NOT provide enough length of thread on them to secure them where I do on the 7800. I have to dremel out material on the inside to make the case thinner in the area where the s-video will go and I'd prefer it if I didn't have to. The breakout board and the 2 screw head version that Osgeld posted would be good, but would NOT fit in the space where I mount the s-video jacks on the 7800. So.. dremeling out the plastic a MM or so is about the only option that exists.

[Osgeld]

the first one does, I have done it in the foot of the 7800 before, but you have to surface mount it and put the nut on the back (and then it just fits if you hold one foot up and stick your tongue out at a 20 degree angle while facing east on a full moon)

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I do put the nut on the back. But there just isn't quite enough thread there to get it started and hold it in securely. So as I said I use one of the stone grinder bits on my dremel and remove material from the inside to make the plastic thinner there. Even after I still but a layer of gorilla superglue around the edges of the connectors on the back side to provide additional fastening.

[Osgeld]

your just not as magical as I then

 

magical as in GOD D----IT GO ON YOU WHORE

 

which is followed by lots of force and about 1.5 threads slathered in locktite (the red crap that requires a blowtorch to release, hommie dont play)

 

 

to the op keep in mind we are talking about the back foot of the 7800 where the RF cable should wrap around, its hell just getting an RCA jack in there sometimes

 

edit to be honest last time I did it I just made a threaded hole and screwed it in there with some low strength locktite but it can fit with the nut in that tiny space without grinding ... you just may wish you had ground it thinner by the time you get done

Edited June 25, 2018 by Osgeld

[Andromeda Stardust]

Or just figure out the thread pitch and diameter of the screw, and visit your local mom n pop hardware store to buy some in a slightly longer length...

 

They put the screws in little trays. You grab a baggie and put the parts you need in the bag and write the price and quantity on it. Take it to the cashier and check out. It's kind of honor systdm.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

We aren't talking about the s-video jack that attaches with screws on the sides of it. This is the jack that Osgeld and I are talking about:

 

https://www.digikey.com/products/en/connectors-interconnects/circular-connectors/436?k=&pkeyword=&pv69=538&FV=1600006%2Cffe001b4%2C35c007c&quantity=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&stock=1&pageSize=25

 

Those jacks are too thin to fit in the bottom foot of the shell on the 7800.That space is only about 3/4 of an inch that you have in there. Luckily the current RCA jacks from console5 fit in there just fine, but the s-video jacks need just a bit more thread on the back of them to allow more of the large nut to fit and hold it in place.

 

You also have to make sure you place that jack on the highest point you can or else there won't be enough clearance for the nut to turn either! The s-video jack on the 7800 installation where I place them is by FAR the most difficult and time consuming part of the process! LOL but it does look really good afterwards and honestly the plastic in that section is thicker than most other parts of the shell and so it is more durable there as well. I've thought about using a larger forstner bit at first to mill it down about a mm or 2 and then finish with the correct size bit for the opening needed. That way, the s-video jack can sit more flush with the plastic and give me that extra thread needed without having to grind out material first but forstner bits aren't really made to be used like that and it can be hard to gauge the distance when using them because of all the fine shaving material they generate.

 

What I don't understand are the s-video jacks that don't seem to have any fastening system at all? They are just smooth jacks that I assume are meant to either be soldered onto something that is at a 90 degree angle or heavy epoxy to hold them in? I've got one such s-video jack that I received as part of an AV kit and never used it because I wasn't keen on how to mount it securely. I forgot to mention that I the additional ground posts on the side of the s-video jack, I fold down flush against the large nut and solder them to it as well. The nut doesn't really like the solder much so you have to rough it up quite a bit to get it to stick and even then it can likely be cracked easily, but it helps.

Edited June 25, 2018 by -^Cro§Bow^-

[Amerika]

This actually turned into an interesting topic and I do appreciate the responses! I already composite modded my 7800 and it works great but s-video would work with my capture chain better and of course it would look nicer as well. I didn't do a lot of research on where to place the plugs outside of just making my own measurements and considering aesthetics I was personally OK with. I plan on re-purposing the area where the Yellow jack is and placing the S-video jack there. Hell, now that I think about it, I could probably simply wire up on the video part of the s-video mod and leave the audio part of my old one alone (it has Pokey hooked up and mixed correctly). Or is that a bad idea?

Anyway, this is where my jacks are placed. I'd have embedded the image with a spoiler tag but I apparently am not ranked high enough to post pictures as I kept getting an error saying I am not allowed.

https://i.imgur.com/o0422oW.jpg

[+-^CrossBow^-]

That is a pretty typical location where people will place the jacks. My personal one I did before I started using the lower shell section where the RF cable is wrapped up. As a result, I have the audio output in that same spot yours are at, but I have the composite and s-video along the back right side spine of the case. Required removal of the RF adapter to allow for room and it can be tricky to get the mainboard in there, but there it is...

 

You could put the s-video in place of the composite. Just have to widen the opening of course as most s-video output jacks require about a 1/2 inch opening. The ones I use are slight be larger than half inch so I have an actual drill bit of the right mm size I use to widen the hole after the 1/2 in forstner does the initial.

[Amerika]

Hrm, I did remove the RF box. I could use that area as well if I didn't want to touch the RCA jacks.

 

Bryan did say that what I've done with the composite mod won't affect the s-video mod due to where it pulls the audio/video. Does anybody know if I could leave my current mod alone, install the s-video mod but only hook up the s-video portion of it and still have both RCA composite and S-video? That would be easier and the unit would be a bit more versatile. I'm just spitballing and if I opened it up to track things down I might find that is a bad idea...but I figured one of you might already have experience/expertise in that area beyond my own.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Well...here is what I would do as I just did this on a 7800 that was sent to me this weekend.

 

I would take out the current composite mod you have, or..if you want to see which produces a better result, you could just undo the wiring feeding your current composite RCA jack. Then install the UAV with all wiring as needed. If you remove the RF modulator, the UAV can sit in the spot where it was just fine. Widen the opening where the RF opening was if possible to see about installing the s-video jack there. Connect it up as well. The UAV is designed to drive both composite and s-video at the same time. The come out of different points from the UAV. This way you can see if you like the UAV composite better than what you have, and if you do you leave the composite and s-video attached to the UAV. If you don't then attache the composite to what you already have installed and just run the s-video from the UAV to the new s-video jack.

 

Honestly, the components that get removed from most 7800s using the other composite methods, doesn't really affect the UAV since it takes the video signals it needs before the resistor ladder section. Still I tend to replace those components to bring the system back to stock as much as possible.

[Amerika]

Well...here is what I would do as I just did this on a 7800 that was sent to me this weekend.

 

I would take out the current composite mod you have, or..if you want to see which produces a better result, you could just undo the wiring feeding your current composite RCA jack. Then install the UAV with all wiring as needed. If you remove the RF modulator, the UAV can sit in the spot where it was just fine. Widen the opening where the RF opening was if possible to see about installing the s-video jack there. Connect it up as well. The UAV is designed to drive both composite and s-video at the same time. The come out of different points from the UAV. This way you can see if you like the UAV composite better than what you have, and if you do you leave the composite and s-video attached to the UAV. If you don't then attache the composite to what you already have installed and just run the s-video from the UAV to the new s-video jack.

 

Honestly, the components that get removed from most 7800s using the other composite methods, doesn't really affect the UAV since it takes the video signals it needs before the resistor ladder section. Still I tend to replace those components to bring the system back to stock as much as possible.

That is a really good idea! I am fairly happy with the composite that is in it right now but I can't help but think the colors are a bit off even after doing quite a bit of adjusting with the color pots for the 7800 and 2600 sides. I can do as you said and record my current composite mod to use for comparison later, remove it temporarily, hook up the UAV, record and then see what I like better. I did already remove the RF modulator and I am not using that space so I could use that area for the S-video hookup.

 

I'll try that! I ended up ordering a couple of different types of s-video jacks to see which I like/works best. The timing worked out pretty well since I needed to order some SMD caps for a Genesis mod anyway.

 

Thanks again for everyone's input and suggestions!

[Amerika]

I just got the last piece I needed to install the UAV and so I did that today. I have a couple of questions though about the output.

 

Here is an album with some pictures of my work: https://photos.app.goo.gl/LZnHmVqegD2utDpH9

 

What I ended up doing was placing the UAV where the RF modulator was as I had previously removed it. The circular hole for the RF cable worked perfectly for the s-video jack that I got from console5. I only had to file out a small amount on both sides to make the jack fit perfectly and the nut/washer goes on with plenty of room. And it looks like it was always meant to be there.

 

Since I already had a composite mod installed that had supposedly perfect audio for any games that used the extra sound chip, I left the audio portion of it hooked up. So I'm using the composite and s-video from the UAV but the sound from the other mod chip. It seems to work just fine.

 

However, I have a few questions about my video capture and the audio. Here is a video of my capture using s-video. I noticed that the lines that should be within the darker green is missing. Those missing details are there on my CRT but it's not there in my capture. I am using an internal Micomsoft card and I have no issues picking up a perfect capture with my other s-video consoles. So I am wondering if there is some kind of adjustment I might need to make. If you look at the last picture in my album, you can see what the game looks like on my TV to compare to how it looks in the video.

 

Also, how is the audio balance? The guns sound a bit louder than the music and it sounds fine to me but I am not sure if that is how it's supposed to sound or not. I could still hook up the UAV's sound if the mix is off with my old mod.

 

Thanks everyone!

Edited July 1, 2018 by Amerika

[Amerika]

I also just did a capture using composite and it looks identical to s-video outside of the lack of clarity that comes with using composite. And, again, it looks just fine with all the normal detail on my CRT.

 

I also went and compared to Crossbow's video and screenshots and he is not missing the foliage detail like I am. https://youtu.be/0Y40RBKBuog?t=15m34s

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Well mine isn't using any capture. That is just the cam corder aimed at my LCD. I also noticed in your video that your TIA and Pokey are not mixed properly. The POKEY music in commando should not be that subdued at all and so the TIA is really overpowering. Easiest fix for that is to take the audio off of where you have it currently and just add a 10uf cap off the north legs of R5 and R6. You have to clip them at those north legs to remove them from circuit, but their values and taking audio straight from that is correct for proper volume balance.

 

So..you see the foliage details etc on your TV but the capture device doesn't see them correct? Only the Capture device has the issue? Be curious if you own Ikari Warriors or have Double Dragon and can see the what the forest section of that game looks like through your capture card.

 

I tend to use Commando as it really shows the difference in detail between RF - Composite - S-video the most. Dark Chambers title screen is another good one to use for testing.

 

Now the ghosting you mention is I'm afraid normal. I see it on all the systems I've modded and it is much worse in composite vs s-video. I think it just how the signal is being handled by the TV. It is mostly evident in the sides of the game screen where it has that green/brown ghost line on the left and the blue/purple on the right. I have found that putting the RF shield back on does help so I always make sure to reinstall the RF shield on all the consoles.

[Amerika]

Well mine isn't using any capture. That is just the cam corder aimed at my LCD. I also noticed in your video that your TIA and Pokey are not mixed properly. The POKEY music in commando should not be that subdued at all and so the TIA is really overpowering. Easiest fix for that is to take the audio off of where you have it currently and just add a 10uf cap off the north legs of R5 and R6. You have to clip them at those north legs to remove them from circuit, but their values and taking audio straight from that is correct for proper volume balance.

 

So..you see the foliage details etc on your TV but the capture device doesn't see them correct? Only the Capture device has the issue? Be curious if you own Ikari Warriors or have Double Dragon and can see the what the forest section of that game looks like through your capture card.

 

I tend to use Commando as it really shows the difference in detail between RF - Composite - S-video the most. Dark Chambers title screen is another good one to use for testing.

 

Now the ghosting you mention is I'm afraid normal. I see it on all the systems I've modded and it is much worse in composite vs s-video. I think it just how the signal is being handled by the TV. It is mostly evident in the sides of the game screen where it has that green/brown ghost line on the left and the blue/purple on the right. I have found that putting the RF shield back on does help so I always make sure to reinstall the RF shield on all the consoles.

 

My previous composite mod had me remove R5 or R6 (I think R5). So I guess I need a new one of those along with the 10uF cap if I want correct audio. I have a resistor on the line coming from the Pokey audio chip which was meant to quiet down the music in conjunction with my composite mod. I guess I can remove that and see what happens.

 

And yeah, the capture thing is extremely odd. Most of my consoles were on s-video last year and I've moved all of them over to component or RGB and all of them captured just fine without any issue like this. And I re-checked the 2 consoles left on s-video and they are fine so it's not a new issue. And as you can see from the album I linked it looks great on my CRT. Does anybody else have the ability to capture their 7800 with this mod and also has Commando? Sadly I don't have Ikari Warriors yet and I don't have Double Dragon. I do have Dark Chamber.

 

That's too bad about the ghosting but it's not a big deal. It's barely noticeable on capture in most games and you can't see it at all in actual play.

 

Overall I am super happy though. The quality jump from my composite mod to this is pretty large so it was definitely worth the $25 and time. I'll mess around with the audio and see what I can come up with!

 

Thanks again guys, very much appreciated.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Could ask OldAtari to see if he has Commando. He just posted a video of PP2 from his s-video through his capture just yesterday or earlier today. He has a UAV modded console as well. Again, I don't own any video capture stuff and even if I did my game room and PC are not in the same part of the house, so it wouldn't be that easy for me to capture video in my case. I guess I'm different in that I have a separate Game room and separate PC room in our home.

 

And yes, the removal of R5 is common in many other composite mods but I've never been a big fan of it. Again you never know when something better with come along, so if a mod process says to remove a component, I look to see where it is getting its signal from and clip it on that side to remove it from circuit without removing the component itself. This way it is just a simple matter of dabbing a little solder onto where you cut to put it back in circuit when needed. R5 is a 6.8k value btw.

 

I've got the process I use for the audio documented in the install procedures, but again just clip the north legs of R5 and R6. Attach them together. Solder the positive lead from a 10uf 16v cap off the two attached resistors and then run the negative lead off the cap to your audio center RCA jacks. Really easy and also easy to remove if needed.

[Amerika]

Could ask OldAtari to see if he has Commando. He just posted a video of PP2 from his s-video through his capture just yesterday or earlier today. He has a UAV modded console as well. Again, I don't own any video capture stuff and even if I did my game room and PC are not in the same part of the house, so it wouldn't be that easy for me to capture video in my case. I guess I'm different in that I have a separate Game room and separate PC room in our home.

 

And yes, the removal of R5 is common in many other composite mods but I've never been a big fan of it. Again you never know when something better with come along, so if a mod process says to remove a component, I look to see where it is getting its signal from and clip it on that side to remove it from circuit without removing the component itself. This way it is just a simple matter of dabbing a little solder onto where you cut to put it back in circuit when needed. R5 is a 6.8k value btw.

 

I've got the process I use for the audio documented in the install procedures, but again just clip the north legs of R5 and R6. Attach them together. Solder the positive lead from a 10uf 16v cap off the two attached resistors and then run the negative lead off the cap to your audio center RCA jacks. Really easy and also easy to remove if needed.

I actually went back and checked my audio with and without the 6.8k resistor that came with my composite mod and there was zero difference when comparing the recordings. So I checked the instructions and they looked like the resistor was supposed to go one line and apparently it was not supposed to go there. It was actually supposed to go on the audio out line coming out of the composite mod. I moved the resistor over to the audio out line and now I have balanced audio.

 

I'll send OldAtari a message and see if he can post a video if he happens to have Commando. I am curious if it's the mod itself or if it's some kind of oddity with my capture card. Considering it looks perfect on my CRT I'm thinking there is some oddity with the capture card.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Most issue I see with captures from these old modded consoles is just the odd lines that show up from the lack of proper de-interlacing. So you usually just see thin lines etc from where the flicker would be going into the effect on a CRT to cover those regions normally. But again, i don't capture my video with any sort of device so I just adjust the lighting as best I can and shoot video straight off my LCD with my camcorder on a tripod. I know that isn't he best way, but it seems to get the job done and it does reflect what I actually see on the LCD that way since as you noted your capture card appears to be blurring the foliage effects in commando. Out of curiosity, have you tired your modded console on a LCD? Does it do the same there as well or look essentially normal minus the colors being off that LCD always do?

[Amerika]

Most issue I see with captures from these old modded consoles is just the odd lines that show up from the lack of proper de-interlacing. So you usually just see thin lines etc from where the flicker would be going into the effect on a CRT to cover those regions normally. But again, i don't capture my video with any sort of device so I just adjust the lighting as best I can and shoot video straight off my LCD with my camcorder on a tripod. I know that isn't he best way, but it seems to get the job done and it does reflect what I actually see on the LCD that way since as you noted your capture card appears to be blurring the foliage effects in commando. Out of curiosity, have you tired your modded console on a LCD? Does it do the same there as well or look essentially normal minus the colors being off that LCD always do?

I do have an LCD in that room I could run a composite line to and see if it generates the same issue. I do know that it is not an interlacing issue as that mostly affects a game when it is in motion and not static images outside of the "bounce" commonly associated with interlacing. And I originally noticed the problem when deinterlacing was turned off. I can mess with some contrast values later tonight as well and see if it fixes the issue. It's just odd that default capture, without any screen manipulation, has the best capture quality for all of my consoles (I have 18 hooked up for capture...thank the heavens for Extron Crosspoints). But with this mod I have to turn up the brightness/gamma in OBS and it sounds like I might need to mess with contrast to get back missing details during capture...which will throw off the look.

 

I'll hook it up to an LCD tonight and see if the issue goes away. I'd wager the LCD will look fine (as fine as composite on LCD can look) and it's going to be something odd with my capture card and this specific mod. I guess I could also shoot Bryan a PM and see what he thinks too. In the end, it's not a huge issue as the games look great locally and I am not super worried about capture quality. This is now more of a technical curiosity that has my interest...but it's not going to ruin my day if I can't.

 

Oh, and to make sure it's on record, I have tried different cables and I also directly hooked the console up to my capture card (both s-video and composite) and bypassed my Crosspoint to ensure it wasn't some oddity with hardware or the switch.

 

-edit-

 

I might make a new thread on the topic to see how others capture footage of their 7800 at some point. I just looked at my older video where I was messing with the pot to adjust colors and despite the video being way too dark I noticed that the other composite mod has the same issue with the foliage lines missing. So it's definitely not an issue unique to Bryan's UAV and it is looking more and more like an oddity with my capture card and the 7800.

Edited July 2, 2018 by Amerika

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I was going to say...Bryan originally created the UAV because the current solutions we had available at the time, he found didn't work very well with the CRTS and other displays he was trying to use them on. So he set about to create his only AV solution that was more properly attenuated etc to be more compatible with CRT and LCD displays.

 

If the cheap composite mod you have in place is producing the same effects through the capture, then I have to agree that the capture device is more the issue here. But the UAV was such a blessing to me on my 7800 as all others I'd tried (Although Magic Knight's S-video only was pretty rocking as well), were all too dark and the colors bled horribly with lots of ghosting on the fringes of the images. There is still some ghosting even on the UAV but at least the colors don't streak off to the side for 3 inches past the image like they did with the LHE I tried before.