Jump to content

Photo

F18A MK2

F18A VDP 9918A

298 replies to this topic

#276 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

--- Ω ---

    HexaCoreRunner

  • 12,978 posts

Posted Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:24 AM

My main reason for wanting this board was for VGA output to an older monitor I have.  With that, I could always buy a cheap VGA->HDMI converter, which I already have and was ~$9 on Amazon, if I wanted to hook it up to a newer TV/Monitor (which also has a VGA connector).  So, at least for me, another run of VGA versions would be perfect, I'd buy two.  That would forego any licensing risks, I would think?

 

That would certainly work.  Many of the TI'ers here have gone << that route >>.  If I recall correctly, besides the HDMI output, one of the other intents of this project was to address a 'memory issue' that plagues some people (but has never been an issue for me).


  • RXB likes this

#277 dhe OFFLINE  

dhe

    Space Invader

  • 19 posts

Posted Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:23 PM

I'd +1 for making another run of the VGA connector version.

Nothing is better on a retro computer than more retro.

d.



#278 OLD CS1 OFFLINE  

OLD CS1

    Technomancer

  • 5,680 posts
  • Technology Samurai
  • Location:Tallahassee, FL

Posted Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:14 PM

I'd +1 for making another run of the VGA connector version.

Nothing is better on a retro computer than more retro.

d.

 

heheheheh

 

Just a quick update, my attorney has been tied up with a rather large trial and depositions. We are supposed to arrange a meeting Monday after she determines her schedule so I can have some analysis before the Faire.



#279 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

--- Ω ---

    HexaCoreRunner

  • 12,978 posts

Posted Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:26 PM

I'd +1 for making another run of the VGA connector version.

Nothing is better on a retro computer than more retro.

 

 

Wow, while VGA standard is 'older' now, I never thought of the F18A as retro.  Mind blowing!



#280 broettger OFFLINE  

broettger

    Space Invader

  • 42 posts
  • Location:Burnsville, MN

Posted Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:17 AM

With these delays on the MK2, I also would be happy if I could buy the original F18A.  VGA output is fine for my needs and way better than my current composite situation!



#281 BeeryMiller OFFLINE  

BeeryMiller

    Dragonstomper

  • 679 posts
  • Location:Campbellsburg, KY

Posted Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:50 PM

Keep in mind the MK2 was going in the direction that would have allowed even greater capabilities that the original F18A.



#282 KylJoy OFFLINE  

KylJoy

    Stargunner

  • 1,057 posts
  • Intellibeardist
  • Location:Kansas

Posted Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:50 PM

I want the MK2!  :)

 

Also, couldn't it be released without the connector soldered on and we can just add that ourselves?  I thought another product (that shall remain nameless) got around this problem that way.



#283 matthew180 OFFLINE  

matthew180

    River Patroller

  • Topic Starter
  • 2,544 posts
  • Location:Castaic, California

Posted Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:03 AM

My apologizes for being so quiet, but to-date there is little news or movement on this.

 

The option for a VGA version is possible, however a viable solution for a VGA header that works with the MK2 form-factor does not exist.  There have been many suggestions, but none solve the problem.  Connector size vs. cost vs. availability of parts make for a perfect storm that has not happened.  A minimum of 6-conductors (R,G,B,H,V,gnd) are required, and there is only about an 8x8mm area on the MK2 available for a header.  The other end has to get you to a female VGA header.  VGA does not provide a path for the audio though, which was one of the features the MK2 was trying to offer.

 

Doing another run of the original F18A is problematic because the old parts (particularly the FPGA) are now more expensive than the new parts used on the MK2.  You can literally get an FPGA with 4-times the resources for a lower cost than the original FPGA, and I can't bring myself to charge the community more money for aging hard to get parts.  Also, the header I did use for the F18A is only available from a single supplier, and if they decide to stop making (or have made) that pig-tail, I would not be able to get a replacement for a reasonable cost.  I really do not like to be in a situation where I rely on a single source for any one part.

 

Having people solder on the HDMI connector is probably not a viable solution for the majority of the people who want a MK2.  Even if this somehow got around the legalities (which is unclear at best), the HDMI type-D connector (a.k.a. micro HDMI) is a double-row of 0.4mm pitch SMD pins.  You would need a way to apply solder paste, have a hot-air reflow station, and a microscope just to place the part with enough accuracy to have a hope of getting it right.



#284 FarmerPotato OFFLINE  

FarmerPotato

    Chopper Commander

  • 135 posts
  • Location:Austin, TX

Posted Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:17 PM

Matthew, if the Collectorvision project funds, will that open up possibilities for the F18A MK2?

 

https://www.kickstar...ecovision-conso

 

I'm a backer.

 

-Erik



#285 matthew180 OFFLINE  

matthew180

    River Patroller

  • Topic Starter
  • 2,544 posts
  • Location:Castaic, California

Posted Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:50 PM

I'm not sure what you mean by "open up possibilities", but I am providing the F18A v1.8 (soon to be v1.9) core for that project.



#286 FarmerPotato OFFLINE  

FarmerPotato

    Chopper Commander

  • 135 posts
  • Location:Austin, TX

Posted Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:05 PM

I'm not sure what you mean by "open up possibilities", but I am providing the F18A v1.8 (soon to be v1.9) core for that project.

 

If they are taking out an HDMI license, would it be possible to have Collectorvision manufacture some Mk2s for you?



#287 RXB OFFLINE  

RXB

    River Patroller

  • 3,346 posts
  • Location:Vancouver, Washington, USA

Posted Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:01 PM

I'm not sure what you mean by "open up possibilities", but I am providing the F18A v1.8 (soon to be v1.9) core for that project.

How come we do not use S Video Plugs or Firewire?

 

I mean S Video has less colors than others but the max colors you can get with a TI is 16???

 

And the best we ever had was TIM with RGB and INFINIT COLOR PALLETS MIXING R + G + B ?

 

So why not use S Video output?

 

Or FIREWIRE that also carries Sound?



#288 OLD CS1 OFFLINE  

OLD CS1

    Technomancer

  • 5,680 posts
  • Technology Samurai
  • Location:Tallahassee, FL

Posted Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:58 PM

Trust me, it is virtually impossible to find S-Video equipment these days.  Oddly enough, plenty of composite, but S-Video is like a red-headed bastard step-child.  I can no longer source S-Video up-scaling equipment via distribution.  Some projectors still have S-Video, but the majority of stuff I find from reputable sources (which I do not count Amazon) are composite or entirely digital.



#289 matthew180 OFFLINE  

matthew180

    River Patroller

  • Topic Starter
  • 2,544 posts
  • Location:Castaic, California

Posted Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:09 PM

...

 

So why not use S Video output?

 

Or FIREWIRE that also carries Sound?

 

Just trying to appeal to the masses.  Everyone has a TV or computer monitor with HDMI.  Not even DisplayPort can claim to be found on TVs (I wonder if it will ever exist on a TV?)  I personally don't have any S-Video cables, let alone equipment, and the connectors are not small IIRC.

 

I know FireWire is high-speed digital, but I'm pretty sure there are no mainstream TVs or monitors that have those inputs (I certainly don't have any).  Heck, I don't even see those ports on computers and laptops any more.



#290 arcadeshopper OFFLINE  

arcadeshopper

    River Patroller

  • 3,814 posts
  • Location:Portland, Oregon USA

Posted Thu Nov 1, 2018 1:01 AM

 

Just trying to appeal to the masses.  Everyone has a TV or computer monitor with HDMI.  Not even DisplayPort can claim to be found on TVs (I wonder if it will ever exist on a TV?)  I personally don't have any S-Video cables, let alone equipment, and the connectors are not small IIRC.

 

I know FireWire is high-speed digital, but I'm pretty sure there are no mainstream TVs or monitors that have those inputs (I certainly don't have any).  Heck, I don't even see those ports on computers and laptops any more.

 

don't be distracted by these type of comments.. stick with monitor standards, vga or hdmi .. If you can figure out how to make a usb-c connector work for a hdmi or vga adapter that seems the most logical solution if you can't get hdmi licensed.. 

 

Greg



#291 Tursi OFFLINE  

Tursi

    Quadrunner

  • 5,322 posts
  • HarmlessLion
  • Location:BUR

Posted Thu Nov 1, 2018 3:03 AM

Trust me, it is virtually impossible to find S-Video equipment these days.  Oddly enough, plenty of composite, but S-Video is like a red-headed bastard step-child.  I can no longer source S-Video up-scaling equipment via distribution.  Some projectors still have S-Video, but the majority of stuff I find from reputable sources (which I do not count Amazon) are composite or entirely digital.

 

I'm glad someone else at least acknowledges S-Video... it seems like it vanished overnight. The day after I got all my systems updated to it. ;)



#292 OLD CS1 OFFLINE  

OLD CS1

    Technomancer

  • 5,680 posts
  • Technology Samurai
  • Location:Tallahassee, FL

Posted Thu Nov 1, 2018 7:10 AM

 

I'm glad someone else at least acknowledges S-Video... it seems like it vanished overnight. The day after I got all my systems updated to it. ;)

 

Exactly what happened to me.



#293 MrPix OFFLINE  

MrPix

    Space Invader

  • 28 posts

Posted Thu Nov 1, 2018 5:16 PM

 

I'm glad someone else at least acknowledges S-Video... it seems like it vanished overnight. The day after I got all my systems updated to it. ;)

 

Funny thing: I am released some new S-Video hardware for another platform in the coming month.



#294 RXB OFFLINE  

RXB

    River Patroller

  • 3,346 posts
  • Location:Vancouver, Washington, USA

Posted Thu Nov 1, 2018 10:37 PM

 

Just trying to appeal to the masses.  Everyone has a TV or computer monitor with HDMI.  Not even DisplayPort can claim to be found on TVs (I wonder if it will ever exist on a TV?)  I personally don't have any S-Video cables, let alone equipment, and the connectors are not small IIRC.

 

I know FireWire is high-speed digital, but I'm pretty sure there are no mainstream TVs or monitors that have those inputs (I certainly don't have any).  Heck, I don't even see those ports on computers and laptops any more.

Almost all Video Camera now come with Firewire ports and you can by the Firewire cords.

After all the only thing to give Firewire any speed competition is SATA or SCS.

 

Summary

To summarize the above data, the connection types would result in the following, from fastest to slowest.

1. Thunderbolt (up to 40 Gbps)

2. USB 3.1 (10 Gbps), then USB 3.0 (5 Gbps)

3. eSATA (6 Gbps)

4. Firewire (6 Gbps)

5. Gigabit Ethernet (1 Gbps)

6. USB 2.0 (480 Mbps)

7. Ethernet (100 Mbps)

 

https://www.online-t...ethernet-speed/



#295 elmer OFFLINE  

elmer

    Chopper Commander

  • 185 posts

Posted Fri Nov 2, 2018 2:07 PM

Matthew ... I asked this over in the CollectorVision Phoenix thread, but Brian said that it was something that only you could comment on.

Are you able (yet) to say if the F18A core on Phoenix, and especially its embedded TMS9900 processor, will have access to some-or-all of the main 512KB of SRAM on the console (like the F18A-MK2), or is it going to be limited to some-or-all of the block-RAM on the Spartan LX16 (approx 64KBytes max, I believe)?

#296 Bmack36 OFFLINE  

Bmack36

    Dragonstomper

  • 580 posts

Posted Fri Nov 2, 2018 2:12 PM

This is what Matthew told me:

 

The short answer is no, not really.  The 512K that will be on the MK2 will be absolutely dedicated to the MK2 core and I will be multiplexing the hell out of it with the other video circuits.  AFAIK, the Phoenix needs that memory for other things, like loading games, CPU access, etc.  



#297 elmer OFFLINE  

elmer

    Chopper Commander

  • 185 posts

Posted Fri Nov 2, 2018 9:05 PM

The short answer is no, not really.


OK, thanks Brian, I appreciate you talking to Matthew and letting me know. I can totally understand that the resource usage is very different between the stand-alone F18A-MK2, and the full console-in-an-FPGA that is the Phoenix.

Best wishes to you both, and I hope that your "Plan B" comes together nicely.

#298 matthew180 OFFLINE  

matthew180

    River Patroller

  • Topic Starter
  • 2,544 posts
  • Location:Castaic, California

Posted Tue Nov 6, 2018 10:29 PM

Elmer: Pretty much what I said to Brian, plus the way the MK2 will access the 512K is not even worked out yet.  The MK2 really needs to maintain compatibility with the F18A, and unfortunately I was not forward thinking enough when I designed the F18A's extended memory map from the GPU perspective.



#299 gksonnier OFFLINE  

gksonnier

    Combat Commando

  • 3 posts

Posted Thu Nov 8, 2018 9:17 AM

My apologies if this has been suggested before.  I have tried to go through the entire thread, there are a lot of responses here. 

 

Would it be possible to create this board without an hdmi connector attached?  I would think there are others like me who could actually connect an HDMI port to a pcb.  I found one example of a port that could be added later:

 

https://adamconn.com...-hdmi-interface

 

Again, I apologize if this has been suggested before.  I have a TI-99/4A that could really use one of these F18As.  It is suffering from bad video memory.  I would rather add one of these versus adding memory sockets and replacing ram chips.  







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: F18A, VDP, 9918A

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users