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F18A MK2

F18A VDP 9918A

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#201 Wildstar OFFLINE  

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Posted Yesterday, 4:03 PM

 

 

Clearly there are some gray areas with HDMI, whether it be the connector or the signals. The only way to clarify is to talk to the HDMI people.

  

I meant USB-C + VGA - is this workable?

 

I have talked to the HDMI people. The only patents that covers physical connectors is the design patents and they don't matter because we don't manufacture the connector. The manufacturer of the connectors pays the royalties on the connector to the design patent holder of the HDMI types of connector.  You can technically send just about anything down a connector. USB-C to VGA.... maybe. However, how is the video being transmitted from the connector to the VGA converter. I'm studying the options but it's a PITA because all the same players generally set things to $5,000+ fee in some form or another because if you aren't in business to make enough money to pay that amount, you're kind of seen as a laughing stock in Sillycon valley.

 

It would be interested nonetheless.

 

I don't think they (HDMI) are that interested in suing micro-scopic hobbyist businesses. It isn't the best investment of their lawyers' time. They are looking to defend their IP against those individuals or businesses who are selling at a volume where they can reasonably afford to pay for the licensing. I'm just wanting them to put something in some writing of a sort that will at least calm our nerves. The idea of driving VGA out the micro-HDMI type connector is doable. It won't be to HDMI specifications and warning notices would need to be used. Alternatively, we find another kind of connector with 15-20 pins or so that is that small that isn't normally used in video displays and we make our own cables out to the back of the case and from that point the interface conversion to whatever.

 

At the end of the day, who the hell is going to f--- with us the most. Displayport is via VESA (so you can use the USB-C connector. VESA is a non-profit so the expense of the VESA membership is, however, tax deductable expense so you might lower your taxes during tax season.


Edited by Wildstar, Yesterday, 4:26 PM.


#202 --- Ω --- OFFLINE  

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Posted Yesterday, 7:30 PM

How about an end-run?  

 

First I'll state for the record that I don't know how much this would add to cost to a finished product, or if it's truly feasible, but I'm thinking WHY would the F18A MKII even need a HDMI connector in the first place?  Would it be possible to just replace the output stage with a WiFi transmitter that could just stream the data to a Chromecast device already plugged into a TV or monitors HDMI connector?  Personally, I'd be happy with one less cable coming out of the TI.  -- Just an idea.



#203 MrPix OFFLINE  

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Posted Yesterday, 9:59 PM

If I may be so bold?

The entire purpose of this item is to have a modern implementation of a vintage video IC, with a modern digital output format while remaining economical.

HDMI licensing sucks. Big connectors on the PCB suck.

A few posts back, someone showed mini HDMI connectors on flex PCBs to use FPC connectors which take up minimal space on the PCB.

One elegant solution with a side spin would be to slightly alter the FPGA code to implement DVI instead of HDMI, and design or source a flex PCB FPC DVI connector. This would a) solve the problem, b) fit your technical requirements AND product goals, and C) (this is the big one) you could order thousands of the flex PCBs and offer this as a solution to those caught in the same trap as you.

For extra points, you could make it compatible with DVI to HDMI converters.

You'd solve your problem, and the same problem for lots of others, you'd make a little money from a much-needed side product that solves this problem for everyone who follows in your footsteps, and you'd have a nice little high volume low margin earner.

IMHO.


Edited by MrPix, Yesterday, 10:09 PM.


#204 muramasa OFFLINE  

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Posted Yesterday, 11:32 PM

I'm trying to remember why this part was ruled out.

https://media.digike...STDP2600_DS.pdf

 

It seems like it could be a good solution. Generate DVI and SPDIF into the STDP2600 and get Display port out the other side. Then leave it to the user to use a converter to VGA, HDMI, DVI, etc.



#205 MrPix OFFLINE  

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Posted Today, 12:34 AM

I'm trying to remember why this part was ruled out.

https://media.digike...STDP2600_DS.pdf

 

It seems like it could be a good solution. Generate DVI and SPDIF into the STDP2600 and get Display port out the other side. Then leave it to the user to use a converter to VGA, HDMI, DVI, etc.

 

 

It is a $7.12 part (qty: 100).

While it does allow the removal of some HDMI protection, it increases base cost by at least $6. That said.....

Yeah, it;s interesting.

Question: how do you get the digital signals off the board and to the exterior of the case?



#206 JB ONLINE  

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Posted Today, 2:03 AM

How about an end-run?  

 

First I'll state for the record that I don't know how much this would add to cost to a finished product, or if it's truly feasible, but I'm thinking WHY would the F18A MKII even need a HDMI connector in the first place?  Would it be possible to just replace the output stage with a WiFi transmitter that could just stream the data to a Chromecast device already plugged into a TV or monitors HDMI connector?  Personally, I'd be happy with one less cable coming out of the TI.  -- Just an idea.

That's an interesting idea, certainly.

 

But with F18A2 already a very crowded board, it'd be pretty hard to implement. It requires a not-insignificant amount of additional processing power be added to handle video encoding and TCP/IP/802.11 protocol details, to say nothing of the space taken by the wifi module and antenna.

It also probably requires you to remove some RF shielding so the radio waves can escape, rendering your prized 99 in violation of FCC regulations(the horror!).

 

Also, it would require everyone that wants to use it to buy a matching receiver, which is contrary to the goal of making it directly usable to the most people(the goal that started the whole "HDMI licensing" brouhaha in the first place). I feel that Chromecast is likely as much of an inconvenient rarity as VGA.







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