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#1 Pheonix OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 8, 2018 3:31 PM

I just received an Atari 800 & an Atari 800XL.  They had been in storage for an untold length of time, and I am not excessively knowledgeable about the system to begin with.  So, onwards...

 

1) The XL has a dark red screen instead of booting.  Have already swapped out all the 74LS chips, just waiting on a BASIC ROM (wanted to upgrade away from Rev.B anyways,) the OS ROM, & the MMU to finish the chips the Field Service Manual says to replace for that issue.  So, nothing more to say on this until that is finished.

 

2) It came with an Axlon 32K module, a Mosaic 32K module, an Atari 16K module, and the ROM module.  After a bit of experimenting around, discovered that the Axlon module will only work in slot 2 (with the 16K module in slot 1,) and that it has to be sitting "just right."  Bump the system & it goes out.  Took the 16K out of it's case, and put the Axlon in that and it is a lot more stable.  Nothing I can do seems to get the Mosaic to do anything.  Research shows that it will either do nothing, regardless, or will page itself (like the Mosaic 64K.)  Does anyone have the manual or such for the Mosaic 32K?  Am I supposed to install an expansion on the MB as well?

 

3) I would sort of like to put the 800 through a thorough test to see if there is anything else I need to get/replace.  But I cannot seem to find any "disk based" testing software.  Everything I come across points me to the SALT cartridge.  I really would prefer not to get that for a single use.

 

4) Finally, Does anyone know a way of tightening up a female card edge connector aside from removing & replacing it?  Would sort of like to get these connectors as stable as possible.



#2 xrbrevin ONLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 8, 2018 3:53 PM

clean male edge connectors with a pencil eraser

 

you can get SALT in .xex format, you would just need a flash multicart, SIO2PC, SIO2SD or similar device in order to get it to your Atari

 

 

Attached Files



#3 DrVenkman OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 8, 2018 3:56 PM

You can also tighten female edge connectors somewhat with a toothpick, small dental pick or a tiny screwdriver by wedging the tool behind each contact and bending it gently toward the center. Pain in the butt to do but it works - I did it succesfuly with one of my 7800 cart connectors.


Edited by DrVenkman, Sun Jul 8, 2018 3:59 PM.


#4 Pheonix OFFLINE  

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Posted Sun Jul 8, 2018 5:33 PM

xrbrevin:  Thank you systes.atr seems to be what I was looking for.  I currently don't have anything that would allow me to use an XEX file, and I don't have the funds to get one yet.  Too much that I need to get first :(

 

Dr.Venkman:  I was afraid that was the only way...  I started to go that route, but the tremors made me give that up as probably more harm than good.  I was hoping there was a tool that would reduce the danger levels a bit.  You know, slide it in, push down (pull op, squeeze, whatever,) the triggering mechanism.  It would then have little hooks that would gently grab the connectors and pull them out a certain amount (stopping automatically.)  Couldn't find anything like that, but was hoping someone knew of one.  May not be able to get it now (depending on cost,) but could put it on my list.



#5 Pheonix OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 9, 2018 8:11 AM

xrbrevin:  Yes, SYSTEST.ATR did the trick.  Don't know if it will show a Mosaic 64K but it's not showing this 32K, which could be because it doesn't bank itself like the 64K does, it needs MB mods that aren't installed, or the SW just doesn't detect the Mosaic card.  For now, I have it pulled from the system.  Until I can work out how it works, or how to get it working, no need to have it installed.

 

So, the only issues left with the 800 are the loose edge connectors (even with the plastic case, they are a little too sensitive for my taste,) and a under-sensitive space bar.  Have to hit it just right or it doesn't register.  Working on that...  Only solution I can see is to pinch the copper connectors closer together so the make contact easier.  May come up with something different later.  Plan on opening it up again later (when working on the space bar,) will pull the plastic and work on the edge connectors at the same time.



#6 xrbrevin ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 9, 2018 10:08 AM

scribe pencil graphite to the underside of the key contacts - it may help raise the conductivity



#7 Pheonix OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 9, 2018 12:32 PM

Or a bit of aluminum foil, maybe.  I hadn't thought of that.  The foil is less likely to rub off, but may slip off.  Find a way so that side pressure holds, whatever, up?  Piece of foil folded back then forced in place may work.  Or maybe a bit of plastic/metal glue or adhesive.



#8 Kyle22 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 9, 2018 6:50 PM

if the spacebar quit on an 800, the pin may have fallen from the switch (and taken the solder pad with it). That is fixable, search here for it. I would NOT think that foil and / or glue would be a good solution.



#9 Pheonix OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 9, 2018 7:11 PM

if the spacebar quit on an 800, the pin may have fallen from the switch (and taken the solder pad with it). That is fixable, search here for it. I would NOT think that foil and / or glue would be a good solution.

 

There doesn't appear to be anything missing or broken, and the space bar still works... "if" I hit it just right, or wiggle it a bit while holding it down.  Take the space bar off & press down on the white square and it works all the time.  So, it would seem that the bar itself isn't pushing the white square down enough to bring the 2 copper pieces (in the middle of the white square,) together all the time.  Maybe replacing just the bar would work, or there's a separator piece missing.  Can't find a detailed enough image of the construction to know.  So, I'm thinking of alternatives.



#10 Kyle22 OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 9, 2018 7:16 PM

Send pictures of the keyboard. Hi-Tek, Stackpole? A Mitsumi will have a flat brown back, the others have solder connections on the back and have either white or yellow plungers.



#11 Pheonix OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 9, 2018 7:39 PM

Right now I'm trying to get a working 1010 or 410.  Got a 1010 and, mechanically, it works just fine.  But can't load anything with it.  It's like the 800 can't detect the data.  Usually around the 4th or 5th burst, a 138 (time out,) error pops up.  If I save a program to a blank tape, I can hear the carrier & bursts of data just fine on a tape deck, but again the 800 acts as if they aren't there.  Don't have the tools to test the data line on the 1010.  Closest I can get is a multi-meter that measures a pretty constant 3v DC on both the Data In and Data Out lines.  The AC meter doesn't have a fast enough response time to measure at the frequencies involved.  Would really need a scope to test it, and I don't have access to one :(  The Data Out & In appear to work on the 800, as the floppy drive works just fine with the same SIO cable.



#12 Pheonix OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 9, 2018 8:06 PM

Without taking the system apart again (I'll be doing that again, but not tonight,)  I took some pictures of the space bar & it's plunger.

 

The base post when up:

Post-Up.jpg

 

 

The base post when pushed down:

Post-Down.jpg

 

 

The bottom of the space bar:

Space Bar.jpg

 

 

You can probably see it is a HI-TEK keyboard.  White posts, copper filaments inside the post that are held apart until the post is pushed down, then they come together creating a short across the connection.  In this configuration (pushing on the white post directly,) the space works perfectly.  Mount the space bar and it becomes problematic.


Edited by Pheonix, Mon Jul 9, 2018 8:07 PM.


#13 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 9, 2018 10:22 PM

I don't see the long equalizing rod that runs the length of the space bar

make sure the fingers are clean and the solder that hold them is solid with no cracks slits or holes, make sure that the metal rod is clean and any grease is not thick yellow or dried out in the clips or slots



#14 Pheonix OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 9, 2018 10:43 PM

The bar is there, just not pictured.  Was bent when it first arrived, but managed to carefully straighten it out.  it slides through a channel under where the HI-TEK patent text is on the plastic.  The bar sits nicely and doesn't tilt much when the ends are pressed.  Though it does tilt a bit.  I did notice (testing the tilt amount, about 5 degrees at a guess,) that the bar works when press anywhere to the right of the 'M' key.  So maybe the bar needs more straightening??  Looks rather straight, though.

 

Oh, I also did a thorough cleaning when I first got it.  Took it apart and cleaned board, connectors, keys, etc... 


Edited by Pheonix, Mon Jul 9, 2018 10:45 PM.


#15 xrbrevin ONLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 9, 2018 11:57 PM

Right now I'm trying to get a working 1010 or 410.  Got a 1010 and, mechanically, it works just fine.  But can't load anything with it.  It's like the 800 can't detect the data.  Usually around the 4th or 5th burst, a 138 (time out,) error pops up.  If I save a program to a blank tape, I can hear the carrier & bursts of data just fine on a tape deck, but again the 800 acts as if they aren't there.  Don't have the tools to test the data line on the 1010.  Closest I can get is a multi-meter that measures a pretty constant 3v DC on both the Data In and Data Out lines.  The AC meter doesn't have a fast enough response time to measure at the frequencies involved.  Would really need a scope to test it, and I don't have access to one :(  The Data Out & In appear to work on the 800, as the floppy drive works just fine with the same SIO cable.

 

for tape deck calibration:

clean head, roller, etc with alcohol (i.e. the whole tape path along the front)

zero the tape counter and make a note of the point of error

adjust the head screw a small amount and retry loading

if it doesnt get as far, turn it back the other way and reload

if it gets further, turn it a bit more an reload again

keep advancing in small increments until it improves sufficiently

 

there is only this one variable so its not complicated



#16 Pheonix OFFLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:03 PM

To get to the alignment screw I'll either need to dremel the case or find a way to remove the case completely and still have everything work OK.  The problem I have, being out of alignment would keep it from loading something saved on a different device, it shouldn't effect loading something saved on this (possibly mis-aligned) device.  Also, it's acting like the 800 never gets anything from the unit in the first place.  The same as if I had never hit "Play" or had a blank tape in the unit.  Just realized I purchased it from Europe and it uses AC input.  Could the 50/60 Hz difference effect it?



#17 xrbrevin ONLINE  

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Posted Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:29 PM

it might be worth opening up the SIO connectors to check for bad connections and/or do a continuity check.

also check for bent pins on the peripheral side



#18 Pheonix OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:07 AM

The pass through works fine (have it connected between the 800 & the 810.)  However, that doesn't mean that pin 3 isn't disconnected internally.  Will have to check that next.  My 800 is in pieces again as I work on the expansion ports & space bar again.



#19 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:36 AM

grab the field service manual off of AtariMania http://www.atarimani...vice_manual.pdf, the 1010 has a couple of caps that go bad and a resistor that sometimes gets blasted, so a lite cleaning, lube and belts, a check of the caps and resistor and you should be good to go... pretty sure this is covered on this and other forums... I think there is like 3 or so guts for the 1010.... I like the chelco (HK) and japan units.


Edited by _The Doctor__, Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:38 AM.


#20 Pheonix OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:05 AM

OK... I'm giving up on this 1010 for now.  Can't test it for a while anyways....  I'm seriously considering getting a 410 anyways (matches the rest of my equipment, except the 800XL.)  Checked the listing I bought this on, and it did state untested.  I doesn't say no returns, but he probably won't want to take it back.  Guess I'll have to find someone with better equipment & tools who would be willing buy it as a fixer upper.

 

Tremors, muscle spasms, & dizziness combined while working on the expansion ports... Now I'm in need of an inductor :(  Only one that is specific that I could find is out of stock.  Found alternatives but there seems to be a bit of question about the specs.  SAMs states 4.5Mhz Adjustable, Field Service Manual states 0.6-1.2uH, and the web site states 0.85-1.2uH.  Closest I can find of the same type is 0.85-1.15uH or 0.95-1.2uH.  Wondering which would be better & how picky it is on that part.  The next option would be to have one custom made, didn't even try to price that out.  Finally, get a non-functional 400/800 (was it in any other Atari's??,) and pull one from that.



#21 DrVenkman OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:23 AM

OK... I'm giving up on this 1010 for now.  Can't test it for a while anyways....  I'm seriously considering getting a 410 anyways (matches the rest of my equipment, except the 800XL.)  Checked the listing I bought this on, and it did state untested.  I doesn't say no returns, but he probably won't want to take it back.  Guess I'll have to find someone with better equipment & tools who would be willing buy it as a fixer upper.
 
Tremors, muscle spasms, & dizziness combined while working on the expansion ports... Now I'm in need of an inductor :(  Only one that is specific that I could find is out of stock.  Found alternatives but there seems to be a bit of question about the specs.  SAMs states 4.5Mhz Adjustable, Field Service Manual states 0.6-1.2uH, and the web site states 0.85-1.2uH.  Closest I can find of the same type is 0.85-1.15uH or 0.95-1.2uH.  Wondering which would be better & how picky it is on that part.  The next option would be to have one custom made, didn't even try to price that out.  Finally, get a non-functional 400/800 (was it in any other Atari's??,) and pull one from that.


Dear heaven above, PLEASE don’t sacrifice a 400 or 800 just to salvage an inductor! Repair the 400 or 800 and find another busted 1010 to use for parts.

#22 Pheonix OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:59 AM

You did notice it was the last option?  It's actually preceded by having one custom built, which is also something I would really like to avoid. 

 

I can't get confirmed specs on what the 800 need here.  If all it needs is a buffer, then minor differences shouldn't matter.

 

*sigh*  If only it hadn't been sticking up so far (but it pretty much goes right up to the hole in the metal case.)  I guess that's so it can be adjusted.  I haven't found a schematics that includes it, yet.  That would give me at least a hint as to what it's purpose is.



#23 _The Doctor__ OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:05 AM

Please click the link on the field service manual I posted....   there are schematics and all manner of important information in the book.



#24 Pheonix OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:36 AM

Yes, I used that book extensively.  Other than a couple of mistakes I figured out (R148 isn't marked on the schematics, just a resister symbol without the numbers,) it was quite helpful in attempting to track down the signal loss.  Would have done me more good if I had an oscilloscope instead of just an analogue volt-ohm meter.  Even a more modern digital multi-meter would have been helpful :(

 

From the same page, I pulled the SAMs service manual & the Field service manual for the 800 as well.



#25 Kyle22 OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:20 PM

Did you ask Best Electronics if they have that part in stock?






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