jaguar needs more 3d games

[roashru]

the topic title says it all. any new games should be more 3d or 2.5d view publishing 2d games for jaguar is not utilizing the hardware. my opinion.

Edited July 9, 2018 by roashru

[Fredifredo]

True... but no "3D coder" ready to create new games.

[agradeneu]

I don't mind 3D games but most games I like to PLAY on Jaguar are 2D, like classic RPGs or a Bomberman clone. And it should be very obvious by now that 3D is NOT exactly the Jaguars strenght, Iron Soldier 2 is certainly the best 3D the Jaguar has to offer in terms of Speed and Detail, and my guess is that took some serious coding efforts.

2D is the way to utilize the Hardware, I had rather play fun and pleasant looking 2D games than some crude looking 3D running at 12 FPS.

Edited July 9, 2018 by agradeneu

[roashru]

i forgot to mention need new games that are 2 player or more also.

.

Edited July 9, 2018 by roashru

[Stage_1_Boss]

It's also the future though, so you could totally buy a new console that has a ton of 3D games if you want. Anyone spending their time creating games for a retro, janky console like the Jaguar can create whatever they want, I say.

[roashru]

True... but no "3D coder" ready to create new games.

what do you mean by this. coder interest ? i still dont understand whats hard about working on the jaguar it was done economically right for the time.

Edited July 9, 2018 by roashru

[Stage_1_Boss]

Games past the original Atari-era usually required a team over an individual, anyone with the knowledge of creating games for the Jaguar would either have to have a great passion for it, or find money in doing so.. It's not really just a weekend thing someone kicks back and churns out a new 3D Jag game.

[roashru]

It's also the future though, so you could totally buy a new console that has a ton of 3D games if you want. Anyone spending their time creating games for a retro, janky console like the Jaguar can create whatever they want, I say.

true. new fancy graphics dosnt make a game fun i like chip cards.

Edited July 9, 2018 by roashru

[roashru]

use tom for foreground and jerry for background what most do can do more

[VladR]

Which English dialect are you speaking ?

 

'Shroom dialect ?

[roashru]

Which English dialect are you speaking ?

 

'Shroom dialect ?

OFF-TOPIC: malicious post

[saboteur]

And it should be very obvious by now that 3D is NOT exactly the Jaguars strenght

 

Not sure this is exactly true and I'm happy to be corrected, but when the jag was conceived 3D texturing wasn't a big thing hence the original WOW factor when early cybermorph demo's where previewed.

 

I think the jag can handle shifting around primitive blocks and triangles ok, it's just when it was released late the industry had moved on.

 

The Reeboot guys and vladr are the ones to give a definitive answer on this though.

[Stage_1_Boss]

 

Not sure this is exactly true and I'm happy to be corrected, but when the jag was conceived 3D texturing wasn't a big thing hence the original WOW factor when early cybermorph demo's where previewed.

 

I think the jag can handle shifting around primitive blocks and triangles ok, it's just when it was released late the industry had moved on.

 

The Reeboot guys and vladr are the ones to give a definitive answer on this though.

All I know is the Jaguar's port of Another World smokes the SNES / Genesis ports and usually the 3D gaming on the system really doesn't stand up against PS1 3D gaming, etc.. so.. if they're new games being released for this system, I'd happily take fun / good looking "2D" games over games attempting to show what "could have been" that look and play poor in comparison.

Edited July 9, 2018 by Stage_1_Boss

[VladR]

true. new fancy graphics dosnt make a game fun i like chip cards.

Chip cards, eh ? Uhm, what ?

 

use tom for foreground and jerry for background what most do can do more

"Most do can do" : uhm, what ?

 

OFF-TOPIC: malicious post

Chill, dude - the 'shrooms (and/or other stimulants, legal or not) were the only reason I could think of [at the time of the post] that would explain -the bold highlighted- seemingly random thought fragments. Whatever makes you happy - it's all alright

 

Now, however, I just though of another reason:

[VladR]

All I know is the Jaguar's port of Another World smokes the SNES / Genesis ports and usually the 3D gaming on the system really doesn't stand up against PS1 3D gaming, etc.. so.. if they're new games being released for this system, I'd happily take fun / good looking "2D" games over games attempting to show what "could have been" that look and play poor in comparison.

There's plenty great-looking flatshaded games on various arcade boards. And they're really fun too.

 

None of which ever made it to Jaguar, unfortunately. Early 3D doesn't have to look like crap, if you bypass grainy texturing, those games still look great today (unlike early PS1 games with grainy textures).

[sh3-rg]

the topic title says it all. any new games should be more 3d or 2.5d view publishing 2d games for jaguar is not utilizing the hardware. my opinion.

 

respectfully disagree.

 

the jaguar's dedicated hardware is more geared to producing fantastic results in terms of 2D, it has little dedicated hardware specifically designed to help generate 3D scenes, unless say you value gouraud shading as a must have in terms of 3D IQ (I personally don't, it looks very much of the time - clean flat-shaded polygons are far more appealing for me.) and that's just shading... you have to generate the polygons without dedicated hardware assistance. that's not to say it's impossible just less practical, for instance the Atari ST had a few fairly serviceable 3D games with far less powerful hardware at the coder's disposal... but nothing I think people would go out of their way to play today unless a hefty dose of nostalgia accompanied it. don't even get me started on judderry/wobbly early 90s textured ick... *suppressing urge to heave and hurl* nobodywantsthat.gif

 

the 64-bit object processor allows programmers to get fairly elaborate 2d engines up and running in no time, the OP is beastly and taking advantage of it is using the hardware exactly as it was intended. 60 fps titles with masses of action on screen - no problem. compare that to the performance of commercial 3D games on the platform - a good 95% of which I'd personally class as meh to terrible - low resolution, low frame rate, low fun. nothing that would or could stand up in any way to the average title released on the next generation of machines that came along that did have dedicated 3D hardware, never mind stuff that releases today or at any time in between over those following 25 years.

 

people today can create 2D games on Jaguar that are just as fun, playable and perform like-for-like framerate-wise as titles released on current platforms. I can't even imagine a very, very remote edge case where a 3D equivalent could exist.

 

most game designers and developers don't want to waste years and years creating the fundamental infrastructure to even allow them to begin creating a game, they want to get to the fun stuff of actually making the game. don't get me wrong - some actually do lean the other way, and they're usually the types that are not naturally designers or creatives, those who are maybe more maths/tech inclined. a few rare individuals have the skills to cover all these bases, but they aren't going to be wasting their time and skills sat at a Jaguar.

 

we've seen very little in terms of aftermarket 3D games produced that are say not ports or adaptations of other existing stuff. we've also seen people aim too high and get literally nowhere near ever creating a releasable game as they're lost for years in the tech - harsh realities and practicalities brick-walling their progress. if you want to design games and actually get them out, you have to be realistic and have a workable plan, this is true if you're a solitary person sat for a few hours every other saturday with a jaguar and a skunkboard or a 200-strong team creating the next AAA franchise for next-gen hardware.

 

recall Mark Cerny's "time to triangle", it's probably the most important factor for this topic. it's the reason the original playstation absolutely exploded on the gaming scene, the reason the ps2 took a little time to get going and the massive reason the ps3 was an utter bitch to work with for many years - ps1 = a box of tricks, ps2 = something that took a little learning and work both from devs and sony themselves, ps3 = powerful yet esoteric architecture that was notoriously difficult to tap... so maybe the Jaguar of its day... apart from the bit where is sold nearly 90 million more units, oh and the bit where genius coders cajoled the hardware into producing some of the most stunning titles of the generation, of and.... etc. etc.

 

 

Where would Jaguar sit on this scale? Judging by results we saw in the commercial releases, it would clearly need a new category of 12 to ??? months. In terms of aftermarket/homebrew games, probably "??? to LOLOL"

 

tl;dr it's nice to want things

 

 

 

The Reeboot guys and vladr are the ones to give a definitive answer on this though.

 

I don't think CJ has ever coded/had the desire to code a 3D engine in his life. vladr has come far closer to creating a 3D game than say someone like atari owl ever did, but he's still yet to pop a game out the door. typo came, saw, dropped the bombs with his demo-effect skills and showed what could be done in a short time frame when the combination of desire, game designer and technical coder are present in a single person, but none of that was polygon-based iirc

Edited July 9, 2018 by sh3-rg

[VladR]

Not sure this is exactly true and I'm happy to be corrected.

The way I see it is that a platform's strength means that it's easy to use it (from a coder's perspective).

 

Example : jag's Object Processor: It's criminally primitive to create an array of bitmaps (in an afternoon, even for the first time) and let the OP rasterize it. That's definitely a valid strength of jaguar.

 

Now, can we say the same about 3D ? You need to:

- create a working GPU 3D engine, using a very simplistic RISC instruction set

- somehow avoid and figure out all GPU bugs. Good luck debugging that one instruction that breaks it...

- feed Blitter scanline by scanline

- and it needs to be fast

[+CyranoJ]

I don't think CJ has ever coded/had the desire to code a 3D engine in his life.

 

No desire, partly (mostly) due to the realisation that even if said engine was produced that streamlined the nth nano-mili-picosend off the loops and rasterized the utmost theoretical maximum from the system, it's still going to look like the above mentioned early 90's low poly shite.

 

In my opinion, the best way to get a good 3D game out of the Jaguar without wasting a decade of anyone's life is to take something from the previous generation that was just-that-little-bit too slow, port it, give it a boost, and.... FUN!

 

Give me rock solid 60fps bitmap action any day. For anything else.. there's Direct3D.

[LianneJaguar64]

Ok so it would be nice to see more 3D games for the Jaguar, like a pseudo Wipeout or something, but unless you or others are willing to learn how to make such games for the Atari Jaguar, then willing to take the financial risk to manufacture carts and manuals et al, and ship it out... Yeah respect o anyone that provides anything for Jaguar really...

[Lost Dragon]

Genuine question:

 

Is there a wealth of 3D indie/homebrew development on platforms like the Dreamcast?

 

I've only dipped my toe into the world of Dreamcast games. ..

 

Quake port was done during the machines commercial life span by a developer looking to showcase their coding skills, i believe? .

 

Picked up a load of Beats Of Rage Mods..

 

Beneath A Steel Sky.

 

Gunlord.

 

Sturmwind.

 

And seen things like:

 

Volgarr The Viking.

 

Rush Rally Racing.

 

Wind And Water Puzzle Battles.

 

And the upcoming DC ports of Palace Software's Barbarian aka Deathsword by Epyx.

 

If people are tending to stick to 2D on something as powerful by comparison as the Dreamcast, i can't quite get my head around why so many on the YT comments section, seem so outraged by 2D games appearing on a 2D powerhouse machine like the Jaguar.

 

Have i missed key 3D DC titles released since the platforms demise?.

[Stage_1_Boss]

As far as I know, the most praised Dreamcast homebrews have been 2D shooters.

[+Stephen]

There's plenty great-looking flatshaded games on various arcade boards. And they're really fun too.

 

None of which ever made it to Jaguar, unfortunately. Early 3D doesn't have to look like crap, if you bypass grainy texturing, those games still look great today (unlike early PS1 games with grainy textures).

Tobal #1 on PSX was a great example of this. Flat shaded and I believe it even ran at 640 resolution 60fps. Looked WAY better than Tekken at the time.

[agradeneu]

Ok so it would be nice to see more 3D games for the Jaguar, like a pseudo Wipeout or something, but unless you or others are willing to learn how to make such games for the Atari Jaguar, then willing to take the financial risk to manufacture carts and manuals et al, and ship it out... Yeah respect o anyone that provides anything for Jaguar really…

 

A REZ like Shooting game with a mix of wireframe and flat shaded polys plus lots of Pixel effects would be worth a try though. Or somethuing like Polybios on the PS4.

[+Sauron]

 

A REZ like Shooting game with a mix of wireframe and flat shaded polys plus lots of Pixel effects would be worth a try though. Or somethuing like Polybios on the PS4.

 

I think the Jag could handle this game pretty well.

 

[agradeneu]

 

 

 

people today can create 2D games on Jaguar that are just as fun, playable and perform like-for-like framerate-wise as titles released on current platforms. I can't even imagine a very, very remote edge case where a 3D equivalent could exist.

 

That sums it up nicely. Could imagine "The Last Strike" sitting happily among other great Indie titles on PSN/Steam. Hits like "Super Meat Boy" or "Don't starve" would work for the Jaguar too. New Dreamcast and Vita tiles are mostly 2D although both hardware are much more powerful than the Jag.

I don't know whats the obsession with "64 bit" and 3D. Probably Ataris fault. The Jaguar can display tons of nice 16 bit High Color Bitmaps at 60FPS. Try that on SNES .