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Backing up Cassette Data (producing a .CAS maybe) just using Atari 1010.

cassette .cas 1010

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#1 manterola OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:46 AM

Is it possible? 

I remember I had a "cassette copier" program  which read the cassette data, kept the data in  memory and then dumped it to another cassette. I would like something like that , but instead of writing to another cassette, write to a disk file.

Another, (very ugly) solution I was thinking about was to load the cassette and use the headphone output of the speakers to connect the my PC to record the sound.

The problem is I don't have access to any cassette player, except the Atari 1010. And I want to send a backup of Wordrace to atarimania

 

I've being checking thrift stores for month for a decent priced and working cassette deck, without luck.

 

Thank you

 



#2 larryleffaovell OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:09 AM

I'm just reading the german "Atari Magazin" series and there was a printed listing for exactly that case... Let me look for the issue.



#3 larryleffaovell OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:20 AM

http://www.atarimani...magazin_81.html

Issue 1987/03, Page 54, "Copy Cass-Disc"

Issue 1988/12, Page 75, "Power-Copy"

 

Maybe that helps - whether typing that stuff or finding a disk image...



#4 larryleffaovell OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:34 AM

...other possible solutions:

http://atariage.com/...t/#entry2236915

https://www.atarimag...pes_To_Disk.php



#5 baktra OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:45 AM

In general, you need a good cassette to disk copier.

 

Success depends on the overall state of the tape and on how the data is stored on the cassette. If it is a format used by the C: CIO device, then it will be OK and the copiers will handle it decently.

If it is a custom format or a format with copy protection, then it all depends on the capabilities of the copier.

 

For particularly nasty formats and copy protection schemes, involving sampling, PC/Mac, and a8cas can be the only solution.



#6 manterola OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:58 AM

Is there any way to (easily) get the audio signal from the 1010, to save it as WAV in my computer? Maybe to solder a cable to some place inside the 1010? (some place with easy access)


Edited by manterola, Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:00 AM.


#7 baktra OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:25 PM

I was thinking about a different solution, that wouldn't require soldering inside the data recorder.

 

1. Write a simple assembler program for Atari that wouldn't do anything, but switch the cassette motor on and then keep copying SKSTAT to one (or all) of the pins of the joystick port. DMA and interrupts disabled of course

2. Connect a DYI cable where on one side is a 9-pin female joystick connector and on the other side is 3,5 mm JACK. Resistors included to decrease voltage from 5 V to something more acceptable to sound card. The same cable as described here.

3. Sample the signal using the computer. The resulting WAV file would contain demodulated signal, of course.

4. Process the demodulated signal by a tool in PC.



#8 CharlieChaplin OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:27 PM

Well, the C-Emulators from german Atari Magazin are quite mediocre. They sold a much better version (C-Simulator by Ralf David) commercially. All versions from Atari Magazin (except Bootcopy) and the commercial one created a special bootloader on the diskette, that worked similar to a Gamedos: It presented the games with a menu and one could press letters A-... to load a game. The first part of the tape2disk file has to be named *.CAS (e.g. Zybex.CAS) and all other parts have to be saved one after another on the same diskette (e.g. as Zybex.1, Zybex.2, Zybex.3); therefore it is possible to have more than one tape program on such a disk. All these C-Emulators and C-Simulators came with a copy program that copied only standard tapes and could not load/copy tapes from Novagen, The English Software, Synapse, etc. with long blocks...  (afaik, the only exception was Transdisk, which could also copy and load such tapes, but I never used it).

 

Nowadays I have plenty of space and can create thousands of ATR images, so there is no need for me to have 6-12 games on one disk or disk image. Thats why I prefer to use tape2disk programs that create bootdisks with only one tape program  per disk / ATR image. The programs I use most often are a) Howfen Tape to Disk (runs with 48k/52k machines, runs with 64k machines, also runs on and supports XRAM machines) and b) CasDis by Vervan Software:

 

http://ftp.pigwa.net...to Disk 1.0.atr

http://www.atarionli...ftware)(US).atr

 

Howfen seems to support an almost unlimited number of stages, so you can copy the tape in one go to diskette, if you have enough RAM; if you don't, just use the append option. CasDis is limited to max. 8 stages (and I always type in that max. number, even if a tape has fewer stages) and alas, also to approx. 38k RAM on a 48k/64k/128k/... machine, since it was written back in 1982 and can be found in dozens of hacked and pirated file versions. While Howfen supports more RAM and more stages, it does not work at all with Basic or hybrid tapes, but Casdis does...

 

The tape2disk versions, once transfered to diskette do not have any copy-protection anymore, they only come with a special bootloader followed by the tape data. These bootdisks work fine with 19,200 baud, not sure if they will also work with highspeed / ultraspeed or with sector skew / sector interleave or from a hdd since I never tested this. But with 19,200 Baud they are much faster than any turbo-tape version I know. And they work on the real A8, while the CAS files created on the PC worked only with emulators for a long time - until Sdrive-Max came along and can also load such CAS files with approx. 1000 Baud (happy waiting!). Nevertheless I prefer the tape2disk bootdisk versions created on the A8 with a data recorder like the 410, 1010, XC-11, XC-12 or any other compatible tape player and have created approx. 100 (or more?) disks images with these programs...

 

Attached are two examples of tape2disk programs I have created with Howfen Tape to Disk. Most tapes do not have such nice bootloaders, counters or titles (quite often you see only a blue or black but otherwise empty screen). And errm, quite often the tape programs are either reset-proof or pressing Reset simply crashes the computer or gives the tape "burp" - of course the same behaviour can be seen with these tape2disk bootdisks...

Attached Files


Edited by CharlieChaplin, Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:30 PM.


#9 Fox-1 / mnx OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:55 AM

Is there any way to (easily) get the audio signal from the 1010, to save it as WAV in my computer? Maybe to solder a cable to some place inside the 1010? (some place with easy access)

Use a regular cassette player and sample the audo output on a PC system. 



#10 baktra OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:02 AM

Use a regular cassette player and sample the audo output on a PC system. 

 

That's exactly what manterola doesn't have on hand. At least not yet.



#11 manterola OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:54 AM

Thanks CC, I will try that tool for my own backup. It makes totally sense.
Now to help atarimania with this cassette I got , I'll need to keep waiting until I get access to a cassette player. In particular, this cassette has music recorded in the other channel, so for a good backup I need to produce a good quality WAV.
thanks...

#12 Fox-1 / mnx OFFLINE  

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Posted Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:44 PM

 

That's exactly what manterola doesn't have on hand. At least not yet.

 

He asked for an easy method.  It's easy to get one, at least over here in EU.

 

A little less easy way is to check the 1010 schematic to find a point where the audio enters the FSK filter and steal it from there.

 

A tricky way could be swapping the Left/Right audio wires that run from the tape head to the PCB.  When done you can use the Audio-Out on the 1010 SIO connector (Audio-IN on computer) which now carries the (pre-encoded) data signal.







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