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soldering project n00b: best shapeable pcb breadboad


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#1 Swami ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:23 PM

Can anyone recommend a brand/link to some cutable/shapable two-sided copper DIY breadboard for electronics projects, like converting a controller for a different console or making a gamepad controller board from scratch? I have zero experience with this, but don't want to waste time with a lot of garbage ones that don't cut easy, flake apart or don't hold solder well. I tried checking ratings on amazon, but most have only a few participants and its hard to put any stock in ratings anything less than 50 participants.

 

Something like these look promising:

 

https://www.amazon.c...coding=UTF8&me=

 

https://www.amazon.c...coding=UTF8&me=

 

https://www.amazon.c...coding=UTF8&me=

 

Something about this looks kind of shabby by comparison, but maybe solders easier????

 

https://www.ebay.com...119.m1438.l2649



#2 Stephen Moss OFFLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:38 AM

Does it need to be double sided,? I cannot really see how that would be of any advantage.

Personally I would not use any of those you listed, they are just a bunch of holes with no connection between them, fine if you are wire wrapping but who does that these days.

Consequently if not wire wrapping and you want to connect an IC pin to 3 different places you have to solder all three connections directly to the component (i.e. IC pin/resistor leg), not a very practical or elegant solution.

 

Have you searched for Veroboard?

Veroboard comes in two styles, long continuous strips of copper with tens of holes in each strip where you split the tracks at appropriate points (i.e. under an IC) with a scalpel or track cutter.

The other type is similar to some Eurocards in that it has continuous strips for power and smaller strips linking 3 to 5 holes to facilitate making multiple connections to a common point. Both Vero and Euro card tend to be single sided but you can hardwire connections on the top side using single core, single strand (1x0.6) wire as seen in the custom prototyping board below.

 

 

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  • Protoboard example.jpg


#3 Swami ONLINE  

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Posted Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:59 PM

Does it need to be double sided,? I cannot really see how that would be of any advantage.

Personally I would not use any of those you listed, they are just a bunch of holes with no connection between them, fine if you are wire wrapping but who does that these days.

Consequently if not wire wrapping and you want to connect an IC pin to 3 different places you have to solder all three connections directly to the component (i.e. IC pin/resistor leg), not a very practical or elegant solution.

 

Have you searched for Veroboard?

Veroboard comes in two styles, long continuous strips of copper with tens of holes in each strip where you split the tracks at appropriate points (i.e. under an IC) with a scalpel or track cutter.

The other type is similar to some Eurocards in that it has continuous strips for power and smaller strips linking 3 to 5 holes to facilitate making multiple connections to a common point. Both Vero and Euro card tend to be single sided but you can hardwire connections on the top side using single core, single strand (1x0.6) wire as seen in the custom prototyping board below.

 

 

The only thing I've ever used was the copper plated perf board, where you used a marker to draw out your cuircuit and then etched the rest of the copper away in high school electronics class 33 years ago and the project breadboards with the holes that clamp the wire, which I used in college, grad school and lately.I don't need double sides. I just though it might make things less messy to have two sides to work on, but its not necessary if its not the norm. Basically, I am just working on projects like building a new pcb to restore a ColecoVision driving module I picked up cheap that has a totally fried pcb from battery corrosion. Also, wanting to make a trimmer adapter for a PC gameport to atari 5200 controller adapter. Another is to put a board into a PS2 dual shock controller to make it a ColecoVision super action controller. Also, a build a controller adapter board with an emulator chip to use PS2 to vectrex adapter instructions and change them to a PS2 to PC gameport or atari 5200 buttons/stick adapter.



#4 Stephen Moss OFFLINE  

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Posted Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:38 AM

Have you opened up a dual shock controller?

From what I remember there is not much room inside them and the board is quite a precision fit, you won't be able to get much in there is you are not using surface mount devices.

I am not sure sure what you mean by an emulator chip to use PS2 to vertex adaptor instructions. I presume you are talking about some form of microcontroller, if so and you are going to change existing code or write your own from scratch?

If you are modifying existing code that is proven to work using the same microcontroller then you should be off to a good start so why not program it so that it can convert the dual shock to outputs for Coleco, Vectrex, 5200 and game port then you just have one adaptor board for multiple systems. 

If you are writing your own code from scratch you will probably find that much harder, particularly as there are two versions of the dual shock (A & H in the serial number) and one is much fussier with the timing of the clock/data on the SPI bus than the other, on the lower clock rate of the digital mode you will probably be ok but at he higher clock rates of the analogue and advanced analogue modes you may find that only one type will work with your adaptor. Consequently it may be simpler to convert to output of the dual shock to Vectrex adaptor where all the hard work has been done for you to be compatible with the Coleco, 5200 & game port.

 

I presume you are talking about the old style PC game port with the 15 pin D connectors as modern PC game controllers are USB, if so will the analogue output be the same type as the game port input? In the game port the analogue stick acts like a variable resistor (connections to wiper and one end only) that varies the current available to charge a capacitor with charge time being relative to position. If that in the Vectrex controller is acting like a potentiometer it will be outputting a voltage instead which is not compatible.

 



#5 Swami ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:28 PM

Have you opened up a dual shock controller?

From what I remember there is not much room inside them and the board is quite a precision fit, you won't be able to get much in there is you are not using surface mount devices.

I am not sure sure what you mean by an emulator chip to use PS2 to vertex adaptor instructions. I presume you are talking about some form of microcontroller, if so and you are going to change existing code or write your own from scratch?

If you are modifying existing code that is proven to work using the same microcontroller then you should be off to a good start so why not program it so that it can convert the dual shock to outputs for Coleco, Vectrex, 5200 and game port then you just have one adaptor board for multiple systems. 

If you are writing your own code from scratch you will probably find that much harder, particularly as there are two versions of the dual shock (A & H in the serial number) and one is much fussier with the timing of the clock/data on the SPI bus than the other, on the lower clock rate of the digital mode you will probably be ok but at he higher clock rates of the analogue and advanced analogue modes you may find that only one type will work with your adaptor. Consequently it may be simpler to convert to output of the dual shock to Vectrex adaptor where all the hard work has been done for you to be compatible with the Coleco, 5200 & game port.

 

I presume you are talking about the old style PC game port with the 15 pin D connectors as modern PC game controllers are USB, if so will the analogue output be the same type as the game port input? In the game port the analogue stick acts like a variable resistor (connections to wiper and one end only) that varies the current available to charge a capacitor with charge time being relative to position. If that in the Vectrex controller is acting like a potentiometer it will be outputting a voltage instead which is not compatible.

 

1. Yes. Space is quite tight inside. I would probably sacrifice the right stick for more space. Others have made similar controllers, but I don't know how easy it is. I think easily shapeable board would be helpful - easy to trim, a little flexible.

2. Yes, a microcontroller chip. I guess I said emulation chip because I know there are several PS2 to 15pin gameport adapters, but they depend on software and drivers on the PC, as one might expect; While the reason you can use the one that used to be made by Innovation on the 5200 is that the PS2 to PC 15pin controller output is completely emulated in the adapter. This code is proprietary, from what I can find, which is why I was thinking about the PS2 to Vectrex controller, which has the code publicly available, back from the days of Clay Cowgill ... maybe earlier. Unfortunately, Vectrex controllers are getting crazy expensive, so I can't test one to see if the old Vectrex controller can be used on the 5200 after some pin re-arrangement. I'm trying to minimize the code that has to be changed, which was why I was avoiding multi-console formats.

3. I'm a little less certain now about output matching for a PS2 to Vectrex adapter being re-wired for a 5200 - Innovation PS2 to 15pin PC adapter works great on the 5200 with simple pin re-arrangement and the standard 5200 controllers output straight voltages, 0 to 5V with 2.5V center - but, the Vectrex Controller is a bit different as it uses -5V on one pot contact and +5V on the other with the wiper in the middle, rather than +5V on one pot contact and the other end of the resistive element floating. I probably need to look at option 1 or 2 instead.



#6 RupanIII OFFLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:01 PM

Honestly the first two look best. I like those narrow ones for smaller linked components if you wanted to mount them on a smaller board and run wires to it. 

Can anyone recommend a brand/link to some cutable/shapable two-sided copper DIY breadboard for electronics projects, like converting a controller for a different console or making a gamepad controller board from scratch? I have zero experience with this, but don't want to waste time with a lot of garbage ones that don't cut easy, flake apart or don't hold solder well. I tried checking ratings on amazon, but most have only a few participants and its hard to put any stock in ratings anything less than 50 participants.

 

Something like these look promising:

 

https://www.amazon.c...coding=UTF8&me=

 

https://www.amazon.c...coding=UTF8&me=

 

https://www.amazon.c...coding=UTF8&me=

 

Something about this looks kind of shabby by comparison, but maybe solders easier????

 

https://www.ebay.com...119.m1438.l2649



#7 Swami ONLINE  

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Posted Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:04 PM

I'll get one of the Paxcoo and one of the Versaboard and try to see what's what. Thanks. 

 

Does it need to be double sided,? I cannot really see how that would be of any advantage.

Personally I would not use any of those you listed, they are just a bunch of holes with no connection between them, fine if you are wire wrapping but who does that these days.

Consequently if not wire wrapping and you want to connect an IC pin to 3 different places you have to solder all three connections directly to the component (i.e. IC pin/resistor leg), not a very practical or elegant solution.

 

Have you searched for Veroboard?

Veroboard comes in two styles, long continuous strips of copper with tens of holes in each strip where you split the tracks at appropriate points (i.e. under an IC) with a scalpel or track cutter.

The other type is similar to some Eurocards in that it has continuous strips for power and smaller strips linking 3 to 5 holes to facilitate making multiple connections to a common point. Both Vero and Euro card tend to be single sided but you can hardwire connections on the top side using single core, single strand (1x0.6) wire as seen in the custom prototyping board below.

 

 

 

 

Honestly the first two look best. I like those narrow ones for smaller linked components if you wanted to mount them on a smaller board and run wires to it. 






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